Elite: Harmless - Karma System aka "be the Tamagotchi" - FRESH SALT, MINED RIGHT HERE
- Thread starter ranje
- Start date
nice.Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Sounds a bit like "for reasons", in my opinion, of course.
First of all, there has been no indication, from FD, that there would be automated shadow bans. Sandro, never said anything like that. Blockading a system is not a crime, but dusting clean Commanders is. The Notoriety system, from my understanding, would be a long term view of an individual Commander's actions. The collected data would be a reliable guide to how that players acts in game. Reflecting that record, for good or ill, the galaxy's reaction to us would change. A loss of services or aggressive authority response are the types of responses Sandro has mentioned.
Knee jerk reactions to fears of shadow bans, is specious. Read what Sandro has said and consider how it can be done. Hyperbole helps no one.
Lol editing what I said. Ignoring you because I think you've got issues.
Last edited:
Minonian
Banned
What kind of issues i have? And what i edited? I quoted everything what you said how it was.
You've convinced me, brother. I'm going to start killing every trader I see beginning when I log in tonight, and every time I send one of those filthy money grubbing, docking computer abusing s to the rebuy screen I'll be thinking of your poor departed mother.
Goose4291
Banned
Any 13th legion (pro imperial) opposition to a pro Fed CG springs to mind.
Except Shadowbanning has occured prior to this.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Yup - and not only in Open - still not much of a challenge.
Frontier would seem to have their own list of behaviours that are considered to warrant a shadow-ban - their game, their definition, their rules.
It's called role-play. I would be playing the role of a man who's life was, as he sees it, effectively ruined because of a trader. He was 5 years old. He didn't deal with it rationally. He was damaged by it and holds traders responsible. Should he be in a psychiatric ward and not allowed within 100 miles of any kind of weapon or weaponised vehicle? Probably, but he's crafty you see. He swallowed his pain and played normal while it burned and burned inside him. He learned how to fly, he signed up with a haulage company and learned the major trade routes, he saved up enough credits to buy his very own Sidewinder and started working for himself, taking contracts from corporations to kill off competition and pirates, all the while polishing his combat skills and learning the intricacies and techniques of flying a fighter and now he's out there! He knows the trade routes like the back of his hand and he's beaten the best (NPC's) the galaxy has to offer and now he's coming for you!
I do love a bit of backstory.
- - - Updated - - -
You sir are a true gentleman and you have my eternal gratitude.
Shame that, same with the fact that the proposed off-line Solo mode never appeared. No point lamenting it though.
I wish FD the best of luck with their attempts to moderated PvP behaviour by automated means and genuinely hope it achieves the goals they hope it will. But the measures are unlikely to coax people like me out of Private Groups and Solo.
Last edited:
Goose4291
Banned
You asked for a valid RP reason and I gave you one. If you can't accept a RP heavy Playergroup opposing a CG for RP reasons, then clearly you've made your mind up on the matter regardless of what I say.
Agreed. But they need to make those clear and enforce them in all cases, not for example, only when it affects certain indviduals or pillars of the community (where they ignored stream snipers until it affected a couple of the chosen few).
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
You'll probably understand that I'm a bit cynical regarding role-play designed to encourage the destruction of other players (that probably won't be able to put up much of a fight).
Which is perfectly fine. RP that all you want and you should continue to do so. Just know in the future it may be harder to accomplish you goals. You may have to shift them in order to stay out of jail or whatever the ED equivalent would be.
Nobody is saying anyone has to stop doing anything. However something may happen because of that choice. You have basically Role Played a generic mentally disturbed individual with psychotic tendencies. In the real world crazy can't hide forever. It only takes one instance of standing in the middle of the street while going to town on a construction barrel for you to get noticed by some sort of authority. Do that 40 times and they might just lock you away for it.
Thats all Karma system would do. Track how many times, with what regularity, and to what extent was the infraction. Its not going to be as bad as people say. It will only make things seem more realistic unlike the game now.
Last edited:
Role play is role play. Just because there are roles that you don't like or roles where you don't understand the motivations behind them, it doesn't invalidate those roles. They are as valid as any other role being played out within the framework of the game. Solo is your house. You're safest there and you can relax. A Private Group is your local pub. Full of people like you, just looking to chill out and enjoy a few jars. Yes, you might get the odd one who has a few too many and starts swinging his fists, but they're few and far between. Open is the backstreets of the town centre at 03:00. It's dark, it's unnerving, you never know who or what might be lurking round the corner. Seems to me that ED has modes of play to suit everyone. Why are we even having this conversation?
Thats not the problem. The problem is that the RP being used to justify these things change depending on the situation.
One day you will kill for the RP purpose of stopping the evil AI docking computers because a lot of large ships are in the area.
Next day you blow up any trading ship for the RP purpose of stopping anyone carrying the CG material Indium because you worship the material like a deity.
The next day you RP being a traffic cop and you crash your 1% hull eagle into ships that might be speeding near a dock.
The point is that people are hiding behind RP to justify their reasons no matter how eclectic and random they are. The griefers will find any and all reason regardless as to how ridiculous and claim its RP. For some reason they seem to find some reason to RP the killing of anyone any time any where.
The Karma system will just track that. that is all. Nothing more.
The C&P system will then punish based upon the crimes you commit and your Karma. You will have to live with that.
I have no problem with that whatsoever. My only worry with the karma system is that it will do very little, if anything, to stop actual griefing. I don't think people realise just how determined real griefers (seal clubbers, station rammers etc...) actually are. Buying a second account is an option. Grinding missions to restore their karma is another and believe me they'll do it. Anybody with the patience to G5 their pwning machine certainly has the patience to restore their karma and start the cycle afresh.
Last edited:
I've admittedly only skimmed the pages which appeared overnight (in my time zone). But while we all have our own definitions of griefing, there doesn't seem to be much point debating them since Sandro has quite clearly defined griefing at least twice.
In an older post from pre-release:
And a very recent post:
The details have changed a bit in those four years. The earlier definition would protect against griefing targeted at players with combat ships/rank, while the newer definition would protect against griefers using flimsy roleplay excuses. But the gist of the idea seems consistent enough.
In an older post from pre-release:
And a very recent post:
The details have changed a bit in those four years. The earlier definition would protect against griefing targeted at players with combat ships/rank, while the newer definition would protect against griefers using flimsy roleplay excuses. But the gist of the idea seems consistent enough.
I don't think Sandros suggested system would reduce the ability to oppose CGs.
He uses the term massively overpowered. I think that refferes to obvious beginner ships, not traders that hasn't bothered with shields on their Anaconda.
Last edited:
Goose4291
Banned
I get that, but remember if theyre RP-ing these sort of roles, thats the sort of thing thats going to happen. I hate real world analogies but in the second world war, U-Boat commanders would prey on vessels steaming independently for this very reason.
I know you've not mentioned it, but this also applies to those horrid pirates people talk about. If you make a threat 'surrender cargo or die' and the other party runs. If you dont carry out your threat, It doesnt incentivise the victim to cooperate in future.
- - - Updated - - -
You're blurring the whole pvp community into one person there.
Its just going to be a stat tracker is all. I imagine it will be fully automated as far as whatever is concerned.
That is why whatever tracking system that is put in place cannot be fooled by a rep grind the other way to get out of trouble. The limiting factor will be time.
break it down to a simple merit system. I am sure thats not what they are going to do, but it works for demonstration purposes. Lets say you blow up a trade ship with no cargo and you are in a military fitted corvette. The whole encounter took 3 minutes That would result as one bad merit. So to fix that bad merit you first need to do a mission to positive karma. First mission will be making up for the crime and basically admit to guilt. Next mission would bring your standing back to neutral status. So one to pay for the crime and one to increase the Karma. Lets say each mission takes 10 minutes to complete. So 3 minutes of bad requires 20 minutes of good to fix.
Now if the griefer has been killing new players in the same Corvette every day for an hour for a week. Then it would go as follows. Each mission/merit for each infraction would need to be accounted for. Lets say he killed 30 people over that time. So 30 missions will need to be done to pay for the merit infractions and another 30 will need to be done in order to bring you back to neutral that would be 600 hours. Now we know that is waaaaay too much work. So there will need to be some missions worth more merits not to mention mission stacking that can be done. So lets say he can clear it up in 20 to 30 hours. So that is fine. However this was done over the course of a week. So in addition to the 30 hours of actively trying to clear the bad merits it would take an entire week for the infractions to clear. If at any time during that week a real crime, not an accident occurs then all the work to fix the Karma has been lost and the timer resets from that time. If after that time has passed then the first consequence is applied. Increase rebuy of ship to 50% Insurance. Next Infraction loss of access to stations in High, Med, and Low Security Systems etc....
And so on and so forth until finally after a month straight of killing for no reason, no profit and whatever has been done the ship is finally gone. No getting it back if you die. If you die in any ship for that matter. If you used multiple ships, then you lose multiple ships. So You really need to commit to the role. Or dont.
Once you have cleared your Karma and you are back to neutral your pilot will still be known as an instigator for a time. Maybe 2 weeks of staying neutral. Once that is completed then more missions can be taken to increase Karma to above neutral.
Thats only 1 week wait and 30 hours of missions to clear you name to neutral. Its much less than any Power Play pledge time to get the beneficial reward. So its not too much to ask for being a criminal. That is an example using a merit system. I do not know how they will do it but what ever they do it needs to be a 2 to one ratio and time must be a factor. It will take twice as the amount of time per tick or whatnot in order to clear the
- - - Updated - - -
No no I am not. This is what is being done now for the lulz. I have been killed by the same person many times and each time that person had a different lame excuse for why my Asp Explorer needed to die. I am most defiantly not lumping anyone into one person. I am telling you how its being done now and that is how it would be bypassed in the future if RP alone was justification enough to kill newbie traders or whatnot.