Code action against CoR

[Goose4291]

Yeah, sorry Goose but it is you who is rewriting history here and not the post you quoted, I realise it suits your narrative to do so but still....

The 'we don't care' line was nothing more than spin, they moaned about the tanking of their BGS faction plenty, right up until the point they realised they were unable to counter it, then, all of a sudden, shock horror, they didn't care. You can bet your bottom dollar if they had won that particular fight they would have cared and the forums would still be hearing the gloating to this day.

Mad Mike highlights some of the hypocrisy that we've had to put up with from said group(s) and that is the case here too. You see, these guys, (and possibly you), can't have it both ways, you/they can't scream and gnash collective teeth regarding how BGS manipulation from group and solo is unfair on one hand and then claim that the BGS doesn't bother you on the other, the two are incompatible. That is also true of the modes n general, if you/they do not care about the BGS - which is just about the only thing that has an effect in open with regards to tangible system changes etc then why ask for removal of said modes?

Sadly I think some of the PVP guys on these boards have tied themselves in knots with regards to the mental gymnastics the are performing trying to justify how the BGS doesn't matter, except when it suits them, and how the game should be open only because of things like the BGS manipulation that, apparently, doesn't matter, bizarre.

Theodrid, as someone who played/talked to the other party, I can state with 100% confidence that they didn't care and found the whole thing hilarious. The few that posted were doing so to extract further bouts of laughter at the 'heroics' of those involved. If you want to pretend they were crying into their beer then by all means, crack on. I can't stop you.

You'll also find originally that a lot of the 'BGS manipulation from behind a safety net is unfair' viewpoint discussions are from people like me who play a blend of PvE/PvP and like the idea of fair game mechanics, rather than the purist PvP types. I really wish this forums mainstream userbase would stop square hole/round pegging everyone who looks at PvP in an even lukewarmly positive light as a griefer/SDC member/shill/sycophant/Real Life Balkan war criminal

I also remember that I was there in Open along with many others and no SDC ever showed up

I'm sure you were, and props to you for that, but I think that proves the underlying point slightly (instancing gods notwithstanding).

If a PvP group cared about it's BGS Faction (which most of it's members at the time didn't even know they had), you would have expected to see them at some point doing what they do: relishing the chance for a good ruck.

either way, SDC come off looking bad imo.

Which for a group like SDC is a win. I'm still amazed people who post here don't realise they enjoy being the 'badboys' and relish notoriety.

https://media.giphy.com/media/11SZdvqU9Izl4I/giphy.gif

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Which for a group like SDC is a win. I'm still amazed people who post here don't realise they enjoy being the 'badboys' and relish notoriety.

I dont doubt it..... being bad guys in game and being jerks out of game however are 2 different things, and I am being continually told that SDC members out of game are perfectly decent folk.....
but, asking for a faction to be added into a game at the expense of someone else, when you have zero interest in said faction, and just doing it for the lolz is an out of game thing is it not?

but that said, SDCs motivations dont interest me at all. this is a chat forum and we are chatting.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…

Which for a group like SDC is a win. I'm still amazed people who post here don't realise they enjoy being the 'badboys' and relish notoriety.

…

I agree with you on that.

The funny thing is that "both sides" usually apply different "win conditions" and then run around claiming they won.

The SDC BGS story is a perfect example. SDC won because they caused what they think was a massive disruption, increase of notoriety and harvested much salt in their opinion.
The other side (not sure who that side was) won because they crushed the faction of SDC.

Both sides won form their point of view and both sides didn't win from the opposing sides view. A strange win-win situation.

 

[Sentenza]

Your nickname... You didn't happen to play in an Urban Terror clan named "GUG" didn't you?

Sorry, no

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
but, asking for a faction to be added into a game at the expense of someone else, when you have zero interest in said faction, and just doing it for the lolz is an out of game thing is it not?
…

How is adding a faction to the game at the expense of an other player group. Even in colonia new factions are added on a regular basis. Doesn't matter that much if someone gets their faction now or sometime later.

(Maybe I'm not taking that player group faction thing seriously enough)

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

How is adding a faction to the game at the expense of an other player group. Even in colonia new factions are added on a regular basis. Doesn't matter that much if someone gets their faction now or sometime later.

(Maybe I'm not taking that player group faction thing seriously enough)

I dont follow it any more, so perhaps FD have loosened the strings, however back then in the SDC days, there were a lot more limited positions for places.. i am surprised you do not remember the disappointment from some corners when their groups were not added, OR where a player group was suddenly popped in over night as the controlling faction completely squashing the npc faction previously in control potentially wiping out many hrs of "work" from players in that system.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I really wish this forums mainstream userbase would stop square hole/round pegging everyone who looks at PvP in an even lukewarmly positive light as a griefer/SDC member/shill/sycophant/Real Life Balkan war criminal

Yeah, I wish people would stop bandying about this ballcocky myth how PvPers are portrayed on these forums as if there's any truth to it. Using isolated posts (or none, as Theodrid never even went there) to prove their point.

So ... at the end ... sucks to be us eh?

 

[Theodrid]

Theodrid, as someone who played/talked to the other party, I can state with 100% confidence that they didn't care and found the whole thing hilarious. The few that posted were doing so to extract further bouts of laughter at the 'heroics' of those involved. If you want to pretend they were crying into their beer then by all means, crack on. I can't stop you.

You'll also find originally that a lot of the 'BGS manipulation from behind a safety net is unfair' viewpoint discussions are from people like me who play a blend of PvE/PvP and like the idea of fair game mechanics, rather than the purist PvP types. I really wish this forums mainstream userbase would stop square hole/round pegging everyone who looks at PvP in an even lukewarmly positive light as a griefer/SDC member/shill/sycophant/Real Life Balkan war criminal

Nah, again sorry Goose but at least some of them did care, a couple of posts from said group on these boards showed that clearly. Also, and this may shock you, PVE players are able to read Reddit, ( I know, right!), and there was some hilarious teeth gnashing on there too as well as some other outlets.

But do you know what was most telling of all Goose? - it was the fact that many of said group and their apologists simply could not stop, (and still can't to this day), telling all insundry that they didn't care, it really was a case of protesting too much. It is a case for which sounds more plausible Goose, was it A) they did care - their faction was in game at their request remember, or B) they didn't care but said they did and now, (how convenient), it was all a ruse? Also, with regards to 'pure PVP'ers don't care', again plenty of posts on these boards and others contradict that all over the frikkin' place mate.

 

[Toumal]

As I recall, they simply said they didn't care about their BGS faction

This is a false statement, and you know full well that the opposite was the case, time and time again.
Remember the Mobius incident? The mode invasion was justified specifically by pointing out that since players in private groups can influence the BGS, they should be allowed to join and go after players in private groups.
This time it was the same. Until it was no longer looking like a win, because then suddenly they claimed to never have been interested in the BGS in the first place.

The 'we don't care' line was nothing more than spin, they moaned about the tanking of their BGS faction plenty, right up until the point they realised they were unable to counter it, then, all of a sudden, shock horror, they didn't care. You can bet your bottom dollar if they had won that particular fight they would have cared and the forums would still be hearing the gloating to this day.

Exactly this.

You know what this behavior reminds me of? Script kiddies DDoSing other websites. They first post a threat, then they start the attack, and brag about it on twitter when the target goes down. Guess what happens when they attack a site that's well equipped to deal with their attack? First they post the threat, then they start the attack.... and when that fails to cause any downtime, they silently remove the threat and act as if nothing happened, so that all that remains in their history is a streak of perceived successes.

Sadly I think some of the PVP guys on these boards have tied themselves in knots with regards to the mental gymnastics the are performing trying to justify how the BGS doesn't matter, except when it suits them, and how the game should be open only because of things like the BGS manipulation that, apparently, doesn't matter, bizarre.

An excellent summary, you just sunk their battleship
Unfortunately they'll just parrot the same phrases over and over, hoping that enough people just don't become aware of the hypocrisy.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I dont follow it any more, so perhaps FD have loosened the strings, however back then in the SDC days, there were a lot more limited positions for places.. i am surprised you do not remember the disappointment from some corners when their groups were not added, OR where a player group was suddenly popped in over night as the controlling faction completely squashing the npc faction previously in control potentially wiping out many hrs of "work" from players in that system.

I remember that at first FD made a lot of mistakes by adding factions into lore relevant systems and systems without checking if a faction was already supported by a player group.

I wasn't aware that getting a player faction was limited. It looks like everybody can get a player faction now, but maybe I'm mistaken.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There is a solution to the OP's problem of course. If a PvP group wishes to compete in BGS PvE activities, either they go ahead and influence the BGS themselves, or attract a section of the players that are interested in playing the BGS and integrate them into their group. Producing more interactions between the two playing styles.

By the way, is this such a terrible suggestion or is one-uppery more important at the moment?

 

[Theodrid]

By the way, is this such a terrible suggestion or is one-uppery more important at the moment?

One-uppery of course Ziggy......./sigh.

(Nowt wrong with your idea Zigster)

 

[Lateralus]

By the way, is this such a terrible suggestion or is one-uppery more important at the moment?

A lot of PvP groups are already doing this, Adle's Armada for example.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

A lot of PvP groups are already doing this, Adle's Armada for example.

But judging by the OP, the Code doesn't.

And since there are PvE pirates active in the game, who perhaps will also get involved in the BGS when needs be, a PvE pirate section in the Code could be a more effective solution than a blockade. Or work in tandem with the blockade if the roleplay dictates.

edit: by the way, the OP states: "until the Code demands are met". Out of curiousity, what are those demands?

 

[Goose4291]

but, asking for a faction to be added into a game at the expense of someone else, when you have zero interest in said faction, and just doing it for the lolz is an out of game thing is it not?

You got to remember at the time, to be a group recognised by FDev you had to jump through the hoops (which included the 'adding a faction' thing), and if a group was recognised by FDev and graded high enough, it lead to group specific content (Skype chats with Devs, CG generation, Community Spotlight, etc).

This is a false statement, and you know full well that the opposite was the case, time and time again.
Remember the Mobius incident? The mode invasion was justified specifically by pointing out that since players in private groups can influence the BGS, they should be allowed to join and go after players in private groups.
This time it was the same. Until it was no longer looking like a win, because then suddenly they claimed to never have been interested in the BGS in the first place.

Clutching at straws to justify a mode invasion is not the same as caring about the BGS.

Yeah, I wish people would stop bandying about this ballcocky myth how PvPers are portrayed on these forums as if there's any truth to it. Using isolated posts (or none, as Theodrid never even went there) to prove their point.

You mean apart from the bit I was replying to?

You see, these guys, (and possibly you), can't have it both ways....

But do you know what was most telling of all Goose? - it was the fact that many of said group and their apologists simply could not stop, (and still can't to this day), telling all insundry that they didn't care, it really was a case of protesting too much. It is a case for which sounds more plausible Goose, was it A) they did care - their faction was in game at their request remember, or B) they didn't care but said they did and now, (how convenient), it was all a ruse? Also, with regards to 'pure PVP'ers don't care', again plenty of posts on these boards and others contradict that all over the frikkin' place mate.

Firstly, I was one of those classed as an 'apologist' (which is odd, because, you know, I did agree that Mode Invasion was a not-cool move) and I can't speak for everyone else, but I spent most of my time pointing out it was a pointless waste of time, you were giving them more ammunition and also what they wanted and also was getting extremely OTT toxic and bitter.
Regarding faction implementation, it was there for the reason I highlight in reply to Mad Mike above.
In closing, you're square peg-round holing people again. There are, for example, people who play predominantly PvP with a hint of PvE (13th legion, for example) who this sort of stuff would really get up their nose. There are people who play predominatly PvP with supporting Roleplay (such as the CODE). Then there are pure PvP-ists (like SDC). BGS manipulation in the way it was done is going to vex the first two catagories, but have absolutely no impact on the third.

 

[Theodrid]

.......<Theodrid ponders pimping himself as a Carebear' for hire>

"me trade for you long time, you big PVP hero, I love you" /blows kiss

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You mean apart from the bit I was replying to?.

It addresses the contradiction of stating how unfair it is to be manipulating the BGS in Solo/PG, against the BGS not bothering the same people who state that. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant. What it isn't is: "square hole/round pegging everyone who looks at PvP in an even lukewarmly positive light as a griefer/SDC member/shill/sycophant/Real Life Balkan war criminal"

So, no, very much included the bit you were replying to.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

You got to remember at the time, to be a group recognised by FDev you had to jump through the hoops (which included the 'adding a faction' thing), and if a group was recognised by FDev and graded high enough, it lead to group specific content (Skype chats with Devs, CG generation, Community Spotlight, etc).
.

Hi
thanks for the reply. This is actually interesting, no i didnt know you had to have an ingame npc faction to get a foot under the table. I am not one so no dog in this fight, i would imagine that is something some of the founders may take issue with as they paid.... £300 iirc to have their feet (exclusively?) under that table!. I DO hope all the founding members are also invited to those chats as a matter of course, but that said i am charging way off topic now...

my point is.. thanks for the info (and just to be clear no judgements made on you personally in any of this, i have no idea what / if any player groups you are a member off and contrary to what you may think, i have no issue with people who enjoy PvP in ED..... so long as they dont ram it down my exhaust pipe.

 

[Theodrid]

You are square pegging round holeing people again

Goose, no I am not and I don't appreciate the accusation, the 'and possibly you' part of my post was about not having things both ways, not griefing, (a term I try to avoid), not lukewarm PVP or anything else for that matter and you bloody know it. I really do not appreciate it when I am being respectful and debating points and not posters being accused of anything with regards to your little list.

http://www.vintagefolly.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/chip-on.jpg

You may wanna use this on yourself buddy!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

A member of code has mentioned to me that they do have people working the BGS.

So this whole thread is basically a sideshow.

But i guess they are getting out BGS'd.