Good job frontier! Engineer exploit fixed in 24 hours!

[Smecca is BMFE]

Tinfoil:

Fdev programmed the cheat into the game and told certain people to use it. "Here's what ships can do with engineering. Now get out there and gather mats, CMDRs. This feature is GREAT!!!

It never meant to get out of hand though. Maybe a good-ole-boy CMDR got salty when he got info about alien weapons rendering his last year of dominance useless, then leaked it.

I'm of course on a ridiculous speculation thing right now. But complete lack of proof of punishment will only lend this credit

 

[Gunnet]

I have contacted FD via Facebook requesting that they at least announce that they will remove exploited upgrades but twice they replied and said they would not discuss action taken but assured me they do not tolerate cheating.

Looking at this kind of thing, if Frontier want ED to have a competitive side they really should consider hiring an advisor who has experience administrating competitive games. While I have great respect for the devs' ability to make games, I fear they may not understand the gravity of a decision to leave the community believing (correctly or otherwise) that there will forever be cheaters flying around in impossibly powerful ships.

 

[Martian Successor]

Tinfoil:

Fdev programmed the cheat into the game and told certain people to use it. "Here's what ships can do with engineering. Now get out there and gather mats, CMDRs. This feature is GREAT!!!

It never meant to get out of hand though. Maybe a good-ole-boy CMDR got salty when he got info about alien weapons rendering his last year of dominance useless, then leaked it.

I'm of course on a ridiculous speculation thing right now. But complete lack of proof of punishment will only lend this credit

Is it too soon to blame it on TJ?

 

[kofeyh]

It really makes a guy wonder how many godrolled modules were created in those 2.5 days.

Versus the many months where god-roll modules were available with the intended materials. I mean I'm sure no-one bothers with grade 5, right, it's not like the developer has stacked the outcomes towards grade 5?

Is it too soon to blame it on TJ?

No?

 

[jasonbarron]

Versus the many months where god-roll modules were available with the intended materials. I mean I'm sure no-one bothers with grade 5, right, it's not like the developer has stacked the outcomes towards grade 5?



No?

My way of thinking was that it was a fairly closely kept secret available to a small group of people up until the announcement by Nightshady, and then once the cat was out of the bag thousands of people knew about it.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

I have contacted FD via Facebook requesting that they at least announce that they will remove exploited upgrades but twice they replied and said they would not discuss action taken but assured me they do not tolerate cheating.

Well we'd of heard via the grapevine (reddit) if anyone had modules removed/downgraded or other action taken so I got to assume the modules will remain in game and Elites integrity is dead .

Frontier a game to a certain extent relies upon trust; that those taking part will honour a shared rule set and not break those basic rules. Without accepting/enforcing the rules why play?

 

[Arthur Shappey]

I have contacted FD via Facebook requesting that they at least announce that they will remove exploited upgrades but twice they replied and said they would not discuss action taken but assured me they do not tolerate cheating.

I strongly suspect - given the silence - they have no reliable way of identifying the cheats without hitting a good number of innocent grinders - who have spent many weeks collecting hundreds of material samples to get good rolls the old-fashioned way.

I suppose FD could use the 'Thargoid invasion' as a way of fixing it. Perhaps the Thargoids hunger for really well engineered modules? making those with large numbers of top-end engineered modules extremely tasty to our insectoid cousins...

Again - this also punishes some innocent grinders - I really don't think there is a good fix. Personally I would stop insurance covering engineered modules, but that actually punishes those who did more grinding for the modules than those who used the exploit. It would, however, bit by bit, remove the excess modules from the game - especially with Thargoids who can take on 10,000MJ shields for breakfast.

 

[Han_Zen]

I strongly suspect - given the silence - they have no reliable way of identifying the cheats without hitting a good number of innocent grinders - who have spent many weeks collecting hundreds of material samples to get good rolls the old-fashioned way.

I suppose FD could use the 'Thargoid invasion' as a way of fixing it. Perhaps the Thargoids hunger for really well engineered modules? making those with large numbers of top-end engineered modules extremely tasty to our insectoid cousins...

Again - this also punishes some innocent grinders - I really don't think there is a good fix. Personally I would stop insurance covering engineered modules, but that actually punishes those who did more grinding for the modules than those who used the exploit. It would, however, bit by bit, remove the excess modules from the game - especially with Thargoids who can take on 10,000MJ shields for breakfast.

Using Thargoids to get rid of OP eng. modules is a bit harsh, I think.

Imagine the rebuy screen after your 1 billion cr. ship was one shotted by a goid: "We regret to inform you that this insurance does not cover 'Acts of Thargoid'. Please accept our standard reconditioned Sidewinder as replacement."

 

[Arthur Shappey]

Using Thargoids to get rid of OP eng. modules is a bit harsh, I think.

Imagine the rebuy screen after your 1 billion cr. ship was one shotted by a goid: "We regret to inform you that this insurance does not cover 'Acts of Thargoid'. Please accept our standard reconditioned Sidewinder as replacement."

That wasn't quite what I intended - just replace all the original WITHOUT engineering modifications. But perhaps your idea is better?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Ok, now that you like the guilty until proven otherwise attituted then you have just shooted yourself in the foot and have become a cheater and so has all the forum participants in the thread.

No i didnt say that.... I said knowing the existence of cheaters in a game makes me question the integrity of the game, and spoils anything competitive. It does not mean i am saying everyone is a cheater unless proven otherwise.

Are you suggesting the doping scandals in olympics / other sporting events has not made you question the integrity of the sports? if not, well i believe you are in a minority... And i will tell you 1 thing for 100% certain. EVERY single honest sports person who does not cheat would 100% enjoy their profession more if they knew there were no cheaters in their sport.....

How do you think a weight lifter would feel if they were going into the finals of a competition and their opponent had posted a video the night before detailing how they could get massive muscle mass in super fast time by taking these steroids, and then proceeded to take steroids..... but was then still allowed to enter the final?. (and their argument was, well its not cheating because I *could* have worked my off grinding out these muscles but that is boring........ why do that when i have me some Anabolic steroids).

You think that is fine i imagine. I do not.

 

[Arthur Shappey]

No i didnt say that.... I said knowing the existence of cheaters in a game makes me question the integrity of the game, and spoils anything competitive. It does not mean i am saying everyone is a cheater unless proven otherwise.

Are you suggesting the doping scandals in olympics / other sporting events has not made you question the integrity of the sports? if not, well i believe you are in a minority...

The problem with knowledge of the existence of cheaters is that the innocent inevitably get tarred with the same brush. And now the innocence is gone, it will never return. Trust might be rebuilt - over time - depending on the actions taken - but not the innocence.

Oh well - such is life. Tea time, again.

 

[Truesilver]

Don't flame me, guys, but although I do expect it's punishable I'm not at all convinced it's seriously punishable.

The reason for this is that it was definitely reported to Frontier more than once in February, with video provided on request, and nothing was done. Not even a reply asking people not to do it.

Whether that was a deliberate attempt to set up a defence or not, I think it's very difficult to ban in those circumstances - after all, a small but (doubtless) steadily growing group of people knew that others were doing it 24/7 and that Frontier were doing nothing about it and that it had already been reported several times (so you can't say, 'Well they should have reported it, then'). In those circumstances, arms race mentality kicks in. (Plus, although I haven't seen any evidence of this, apparently it was reported right back in Beta 2.1 also.)

Perhaps I'm wrong.

However, I'm increasingly of the view that it is most unlikely that - whether via bans or excision of modules - all exploited god rolled modules will be removed from the game.

That being so I return to my own proposed fix: make all blueprints require only 1 x g1 mat. I don't see any other way (without removal of the sploit rolls) that there can be anything like fair Open PvP again.

 

[Han_Zen]

That wasn't quite what I intended - just replace all the original WITHOUT engineering modifications. But perhaps your idea is better?

I hope they come up with an in-game solution at least.

I don't like the "You have been a bad person for repeatedly clicking these buttons in a game. You shall be banned".

I much prefer "You have been a bad Commander for swindling engineers out of thousands of G5 materials. Each engineer will disable their modified modules and deny you service until you have re-payed your debt".

Fist one is meh, last one is fun.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Don't flame me, guys, .

gets out flame thrower................. (only joking)

you make a valid point.. FD have been so lax on exploits, and so slow to close them that i agree some may say their inaction is almost considered permission.

the vital thing is getting the exploited gear out of the game.... if that means taking all of them off people personally i would take that on the chin - i know others are not of that view.

the 2nd step is then considering if punishment is warranted. A ban does not really help anyone. A flag on the account for any future indescretions plus possibly some kind of timed ban on eng mods or something could be more in order.

I loved the suggestion by 1 poster that, the story goes that the engineer "catch" you red handed stealing the materials from them, and they put you in debt to the number of mats you stole.

this would be brilliant, but i am almost certain they cant work out how many that would be.... it would be but a minor punishment for those who did 1 or 2 exploits... but those who rolled 1000s......

imo its hard to argue against if only using pure logic...... a player received a service in the game they did not pay for, so the engineers refuse to do business till all materials are paid back.

realistically a timed ENG ban based on the level of the exploiting would be more likely.

the 3rd step is then bringing the legitimate god rolls back in line somehow imo...

a timed ban from the game entirely... without removing all ENG items so that in x number of days they come back with their god ships however is completely stupid and they may as well do nothing.

 

[JosiahD]

I'd be tempted to go the shadowban option - miscreants who have taken advantage of the exploit could still play the game while keeping their ill-gotten mods and not impact other players (other than those similarly shadowbanned with them). Make it a permanent shadowban if it includes keeping the mods, or a timed shadowban if they lose them - say 6 months?

Or banish them to the Andromeda galaxy or something with no way to come back...... TIC

 

[Count]

I think they're a bit tied up with E3 right now (and rightly so), but I agree they need to be clear about what's happened to modules obtained using the cheat.

"David, the whole community is awaiting our Action in the engineers exploit file. We must throw in something"
"Organise a live stream and an unrelated community Goal. Try to look as busy as possible. Eventually, they'll Forget about all this."

I'm struggling to see what has come out of E3, so far we've had live streams from not at E3 and no news on the game?

It's been a very confusing week to be an ED player.

I really hope they are not going for the head in sand approach to this.

 

[bitstorm]

I'm struggling to see what has come out of E3, so far we've had live streams from not at E3 and no news on the game?

It's been a very confusing week to be an ED player.

I really hope they are not going for the head in sand approach to this.

Well the live streams *are* the news. 2.4 is the Thargoid story unfolding, obviously they can't talk anymore about it beyond the first step.

But yes it is very confusing, is season 3's paid development going to be all story type content?

And the "focus on the core" they've been talking about, are they now going to roll all this into the existing game as a freebie?

 

[Gunnet]

Don't flame me, guys, but although I do expect it's punishable I'm not at all convinced it's seriously punishable.

The reason for this is that it was definitely reported to Frontier more than once in February, with video provided on request, and nothing was done. Not even a reply asking people not to do it.

Whether that was a deliberate attempt to set up a defence or not, I think it's very difficult to ban in those circumstances - after all, a small but (doubtless) steadily growing group of people knew that others were doing it 24/7 and that Frontier were doing nothing about it and that it had already been reported several times (so you can't say, 'Well they should have reported it, then'). In those circumstances, arms race mentality kicks in. (Plus, although I haven't seen any evidence of this, apparently it was reported right back in Beta 2.1 also.)

Perhaps I'm wrong.

Got to disagree with you here. In my opinion, the seriousness of abusing such a clear bug to gain an advantage isn't at all mitigated by choosing to report it, Support not directly instructing the reporter to stop, Frontier taking any amount of time to fix it, or the fact that other people were also abusing it.

There is a standing notice against using bugs to gain an advantage in the code of conduct. Including a warning (in the same sentence no less) that the penalty for doing so could extend to a full ban.

However, I'm increasingly of the view that it is most unlikely that - whether via bans or excision of modules - all exploited god rolled modules will be removed from the game.

Unfortunately, I'm increasingly agreeing with you on this one.

 

[Arguendo]

My way of thinking was that it was a fairly closely kept secret available to a small group of people up until the announcement by Nightshady, and then once the cat was out of the bag thousands of people knew about it.

That "small group of people" may have been a bit bigger than you think

 

[Herbrand]

If cheat God rolls are not going to be removed from the game, every semblance of fairness goes away with them. The advantage its users have gained is exponential.