Murder hobos vs CG piracy

[Vorxian]

hats off to you Urth, one of the few times I genuinely think (genuine) pirates deserve some attention.

the ultimate thing is.. confrontational PKers killing for reasons out of scope of game endorsement are just helping no one. Stay out of open mode? Yeah it's still heading towards a form of OPEN PvE (non damage) direction. However that'll work.

keep up the good work though, no one wants to see pirates give up.. (never thought I would say that).

 

[CMDR-AD]

also its not like theres a pg that takes on pirates

Interestingly, the Pilot's Federation itself is a piracy group.

 

[Xious]

Also... there is no "murder" in E: D.

There is just... ship destruction...

 

[Arguendo]

i spoke to mobius they dont seem interested in pirates being around. (well asked on there discord if they were open to the idea)

Most likely they don't want it, because it would be too easy to abuse. "Oh, I am a pirate. I really suck at it though, so all my targets die. I am working on it though. I promise!"

 

[Elpapo]

I'm so sick of murder hobos hanging around the CGs.

I'm a pirate, which means I'm not trying to kill any traders, trades seem pretty cool with the situation as long as no ones trying to kill em. i always make it clear with what going on with a quick "engines off, submit to scan, this is a robbery", then if they run only take out the engines.
50% of the time I'm not even wanted. but murder hobos are running around the place trying to justify there random attacks by claiming piracy or bounty hunting.
I'm sorry but pirates don't carry anything bigger then pack hounds and also have the mandatory limpet collectors (no ones gonna scoop 30 tons of cargo at a time).
The bounty hunting hobos are attacking while I'm not even wanted claiming I'm a pirate and in turn them selves becoming wanted. how can u bounty hunt something that isn't wanted?

so after the vent cant fdev do something about this... maybe something like GTA online has where if you get enough negative actions placed on your account that you get put into a player pool where your only with other "bad" players, then the hobos can have fun killing each other while the rest of socialized space can carry on blazing there own trail. and please dont tell me to play solo, npc piracy isnt fun and isnt implemented in a way that makes it feel good.

Laws of Open.

If you got yourself "Wanted" status, note that no matter what you did to obtain it, it still makes you a legit taget for anyone in non-anarchy areas.

Some Cmdrs will be able to see and tell whatever you are up to, by just lookin at you in supercruise... And potential piracy activity by someone weak is not being tolerate by many as well... and you still want to know why u get attacked even when clean.

If u still wanna-be a Pirate, better l2p to level where U can fend off most of attackers. If not atleast that, you might end up as a content or fodder for others.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

I have pretty good ROE so I don't murder just anyone but....

The horse is dead, I'm tired of preaching

 

[sb413197]

As a pirate I usually just ram people instead of shooting. This avoids getting a bounty and gets their attention still (usually) but can be slower and less effective than shooting.

 

[Pyrobee]

C&P is coming, watch this space.

Oh and they paid money for the game too, so if they want to be murder hobo's within the game rules they can.

C&P ain't going to do stop any of the shenaigans that goes on in opne, FDev have already said they don't wan't it to stamp out nefarious activities.Gankers will were their bounties with pride and we'll just haev those that whine about open but never play in there demanding that FD fix the broken C&P system.

 

[CPTVICKERS]

Pirates complaining about bounty hunters not waiting for them to be wanted is like sharks complaining about orcas not waiting for them to eat a fish.... I had a conversation with a couple "gankers" turns out they have their own set of rules, and if you are the lucky target, its just your day. One went so far as to only attack "combat ships" well, that person defined such, as any ship with combat capability. (I asked for this explanation as "combat ship is subjective" ASPX with no weapons= explorer, ASPX with full weapon complement, armor, etc=combat ship. Python,Anaconda,Clipper,Cutter, eagle, FED gunship, drop ship and of course FED Vette met their criteria regardless of outfitting. Basically any ship designed with combat in mind. Regardless if the ship was at a exploration sight, carrying a SRV and all exploration tools. So just because you don't understand why someone is playing the game how they like, does not necessarily mean they are a fat boy in moms basement who feeds off your tears. Most of them don't really care about your feelings, they just want to fight you, because that is how they play with others. If you enter a system and see a blanket "Naval Blockade" local chat statement, either be a damn good pilot, or go solo for a bit until they get bored and go home. I spent 6 hours one night running through a naval blockade, and dodging pirates, it was fun. I had three rebuys, one was my fault, two for the blockade, but I made a long range trade 7 times successfully. So I win, but it was fun, and that is all anyone was trying to have. How boring is it to successfully do everything in the game? Where is the challenge? NPC pirates? You mean supercruise engine backfires....

This topic will never end until a mod stomps it. (and they should) or frontier goes full world of warcraft by making separate PVE and PVP servers. Which would blow. By the way, if everyone hiding in private or solo would come out to play at once, PVP players would be absolutely overrun. There are probably a whopping 500-1000 PVP dedicated players in the game. Can't be more, because I see the same 20-30 faces at every event, with only a 5-10 new person variance. Its hard to be a pvp pirate if no-one is around to steal from, its hard to be a pvp bounty hunter if there is no-one around to hunt. So I would challenge everyone to come out and play. You don't have to be there all the time, but some of the time would be nice. I myself still have some time in private groups with people who won't do open, or solo for broken CGs, or even crowded bounty hunting CGs. So there is a place for it, but don't be terrified to the point where the only place you meet new players is outside the game, if you do, greifers win.

I'm just going to sit back now and watch the mess.....

 

[DukeIronHand]

So I should come out of "hiding" from Solo or PG to "play" in Open...why?
For whose benefit shall I do this?

The above may sound flippant but it really isn't. Perhaps some folk don't like to be the game content of others and forced to modify their play style accordingly. If you don't mind then do as you please and go to Open. I enjoy my non-PvP game just fine but YMMV.
There are 3 modes - pick the one you want and have fun.

 

[Nalessa]

Lol where does the term murder hobo come from?

I'm just imagining a rusty banged up sidewinder piloted by cmdr Soupcan Harry randomly attacking players that he thinks are stealing his biowaste.

 

[Madrax573]

I really must start getting into some PVP. The stories that come out of it are great. Or I could go grind a bit more I suppose.

Semi sarcastic.

TBH I think the topic in the OP is not that clear. I for one wouldn't have an issue shooting the OP as I know he's been robbing people. Wanted status or not. But it would be some part of my own RP around being a 'vigilante' that goes after 'bad guys' whether or not the cops are chasing them at the time. Vigilante going after a criminal who is avoiding the law and playing the system, heck yeah I can get behind that!

Would I target and kill peaceful traders. quite possibly but I like to have reasons for doing something. Maybe I'm messing with BGS stuff or I'm RP'ing a nutter... In all honesty unless its a direct exploit it all fair game in open.

When I just want to go about my own business then I drop to PG or solo (usually just to be able to grab those 4xjuicy screen shots though)

 

[Ozram]

I'd say it's combat loggers screw up piracy just as much. TBH it's threads whinging about player killers in a galaxy setting that makes the Wild West look like a kitty park (we've got slavery, state sanctioned mass murder, drugs smuggling and death sentence for parking infractions) which tempts me more and more to become one. Too many people want the scenery but not the risk. When NPCs became mildly dangerous all of a sudden and people had to set up their ships much as they would in Open just to survive there was an outcry. All casual nails in the coffin.

 

[Gunnet]

Something needs to be done about griefing. But something also needs to be done about pirates being able to remain clean. Making interdiction of a clean player attract a bounty rather than a fine would do it nicely.

You're always going to be subject to attack by player security forces while pirating. Although without the griefers around you would at least get more interesting RP interactions and fewer simple ganks.

 

[Madrax573]

I'd say it's combat loggers screw up piracy just as much. TBH it's threads whinging about player killers in a galaxy setting that makes the Wild West look like a kitty park (we've got slavery, state sanctioned mass murder, drugs smuggling and death sentence for parking infractions) which tempts me more and more to become one. Too many people want the scenery but not the risk. When NPCs became mildly dangerous all of a sudden and people had to set up their ships much as they would in Open just to survive there was an outcry. All casual nails in the coffin.

I have similar thoughts as you mate. The more I hear about people complaining about pvp the more I want to do it and just become a wanton killer.

 

[DukeIronHand]

I have similar thoughts as you mate. The more I hear about people complaining about pvp the more I want to do it and just become a wanton killer.

There's the reasoning! Sounds like your perfect for it.
Blaze your own trail. Have fun.

 

[VerticalBlank]

It's fine, Frontier is solving the problem by essentially making piracy unworkable, and giving PVP centric players a new competition. Everyone else will just go to solo.

Frontier have never really understood how to facilitate piracy, as a function. Or that giving players the tools to deal with PVP themselves (eg bounties that escalate, APB's for the top offenders, etc). Instead, moralising commanders panic about people profiting from hunting malcontents, when not combat logging in open and then complaining about being shot at.

There are ways Frontier can solve this. Karma, a global bounty system and a massively improved system security are a start.

I'm sorry, commander, but I think piracy is being thrown under the bus. Because frontier either won't, or can't discern between piracy and good old fashioned highway robbery, versus outright ganking. And so to be seen to be doing something, we get a system that essentially rewards ganking and penalises piracy.

I don't know what else to say. Frontier decided to allow free-for-all combat in open, then forgot to set anything remotely like mechanics around it. Now? I love frontier. I think they have done an amazing job. But this whole thing has been left far far too long.

The community is fundimentally devided. It will take so so much to try and repair that. I hope they can try. But it's going to be rough for a long time. I have some belief Frontier can do it. But it's going to be bad, guys and gals, it's going to be bad for a while yet.

Nailed it. +rep

 

[Red Anders]

from my understanding the plans for C&P/Karma are going to punish me as much as the griefers. i dont understand how fdev can tell the difference between me shooting out some engines and becoming wanted and a guy just randomly going on a killing spree.

i dont think PGs are taking legit pirates on sadly.

The problem of course is that although you're a 'legit' pirate as in an actual pirate not an in-game spree killer, you're not actually 'legit' within the context of the in-game law, in fact you're a career criminal. Not that I have any problem with that at all but I am struggling to work with the concept of a pirate who is somehow exempt from a crime and punishment system. You know, on account of the fact your in-game activity revolves around committing crimes.

I would however imagine that simply firing on a ship (to damage its powerplant) would be less of a negative factor in any in-game crime and punishment system than killing five commanders for lulz, much as in the real world the legal penalties I would face for keying my neighbour's car would hopefully be less than those for shooting him in the face before offing his entire family.

 

[Ozram]

The problem of course is that although you're a 'legit' pirate as in an actual pirate not an in-game spree killer, you're not actually 'legit' within the context of the in-game law, in fact you're a career criminal. Not that I have any problem with that at all but I am struggling to work with the concept of a pirate who is somehow exempt from a crime and punishment system. You know, on account of the fact your in-game activity revolves around committing crimes.

Easiest solution is to have a different style of bounty for murder and for damage. IOW, perhaps have the PF bounties reserved for the PKs and everything else as local.

 

[Red Anders]

<snip>

Your first paragraph is in the most part decent analysis but then you had to go and spoil it by falling back on the tired old tropes of people 'hiding' in solo and being 'terrified'.

It may be true for some; for me though (and many others as the forums will attest) it's really much simpler. I don't in general play games to 'meet people'. I play games to play games. Gaming is and always has been primarily some time I can spend away from people, not because I'm socially phobic or inept but just because after a full day at work where I'm dealing with, yes you guessed it, people, I just want to switch off for a bit.

'Griefers' don't win because I decide to do what I want, they are just as irrelevant to my decisions as (no offence intended) you.

Easiest solution is to have a different style of bounty for murder and for damage. IOW, perhaps have the PF bounties reserved for the PKs and everything else as local.

Yeah they're going to have to address it in some way for sure, I mean I get OP's point completely. I've said before, space pirates are about as classical a sci-fi trope as you'll ever see and totally have a place in the game, so it's going to need some careful balancing.

One of the biggest problems comes from the sheer scale of the game world we have; traditionally you'd have the 'pirate system' with the requisite scary-looking base and the rum-guzzlers would all hang out there raiding the surrounding systems before retreating back to base for grog and booty. No not that kind. Well Ok, some. Players of a non-piratical bent would fear the pirate system and would only venture inside in strong combat ships, looking to sweep the wretched hive of scum and villainy clean. Etc.

It worked great for Freelancer with its 20-odd systems but in this game with 20,000 systems or so in the bubble alone, it's a non-starter and we definitely can't have a situation where a player who chooses to play as a pirate finds himself only able to operate in a handful of 'super-anarchy' systems. Partly because it defeats the entire object of playing in a vast galaxy but mainly because they'd never see a legitimate trader bumbling along waiting to be pulled over and robbed to begin with as those players wouldn't go within 10 jumps of any such system in a lightly armed trade ship.

However surely part of the experience and the appeal of playing as a pirate is being wanted by the law and evading them? Without that, a pirate is basically just a trader who doesn't bother buying stuff.