Elite: Carebear

[Mohrgan]

No but seriously though, there is a situation going.

I just came back from a 2 years break, 1 week ago. To my surprise, most of the people in my friend list are still playing, actively too. Which in itself, is a testament on how hooking the game is, no doubt. But, they all are playing in private or solo. Nobody goes to open.

So I asked them : "why not go to open, open is the best mode guys, we used to to wings together, open is where the fun is, it's called Eliteangerous, you've been playing for years now, you have billions, triple elite, all the ships... surely you can handle open... what is going on ?!"

"No, we won't go to open. Why would we go to open. We have no interest in getting demolished by some random guy that will just shoot on sight with an over-engineered ship, without a word. Do what you want, but we stick to private/solo, it's the same." they say.

Nonsense, I said. You guys don't know how to handle another player, what happened to you all...

3 days later in open, many commanders were met and the game was looking fine. I was being quite cautious though, seeing that I was still carrying 160.000 Ly worth of exploration data in my haul. Meaning I would be extra careful actually, and only flying in my (2 years old) combat Python.

But then, this player in FAS interdicted me. No words were spoken, he just obliterated my shield before I could realize what the f... was going on. And well, I tried my best but my best was clearly lacking, so I died. Goodbye data, thanks. This guy actually killed me 3 times in a row that night. Not a single word.

And I hate to say this, but I will, from this point on I play in solo/private. Yes I've already lost what I was supposed to protect, but I guess it's just... pointless, as they said, to play in open. Getting obliterated in seconds, because I don't have the proper pvp ship/build/skills, well... me, I guess I'll pass.

It's a real shame.


So my suggestion is (you're all allowed to laugh) : get rid of the solo and private. Keep only open, and then balance the thing so that people can actually live together. Piracy is great, even assassination player killing is OK, but it needs to be tuned to get along well with other professions.

Right now people are hiding in solo/private, myself included. Which makes the situation even worse for the poor/brave soul that just want to enjoy the game in open, let's call him the golden fish. If you have an aquarium with 100 golden fishes and 5 piranhas, then each golden fish is reasonably safe, because there's 99 others that can act as target / decoy / resistance.

But if all the golden fish go and hide in the "solo" or "private" aquariums, then the next golden fish who gets put in the "open" one, well... I wish him good luck, versus 5 starved piranhas.

Which also means that all of you that go and hide in solo or private (myself included right now), whatever the reason is ("just to be safe you know", "in open people are crazy", "get real, you just can't trust open" "I heard they have long nails and rotten teeth in open", "what's the point in playing on open, I just want to be alone", "Don't talk to me", "In 1984 Elite was a solo game so thank you very much, but I'll play solo") are directly, if not making, contributing to the "pvp fiesta" that open mode has become.

All along, as the weaker/slower golden fish are done in, even the fittest of the golden fish are easy targets for the piranhas. It's called attrition. The herd mentality is no solution, you're talking about diluting the threat. Since, no one wants to be the victim, even if they know they are saving others from falling prey, for a time, what makes you think this is a viable solution? People, individual people, decide to play in a more civilized atmosphere than open can provide. The die is cast.

Sorry Mohrgan, I know that I don't own the thread. I also have no issues with discussing related points. However, I know that our lovely mods will close this thread when it becomes a copy of Hotel California. So everyone who knows this and still argues about it tries to get this thread closed in my opinion. Just like people are allowed to say what they want, I am allowed to ask them to stay on topic. I can't force you though.

PS
I am well aware that I can't stop people to run in circles...

Contribute to the conversation. Bring your issues to the fore, instead of directing traffic. You may have had your say with me over my retort, but you haven't moved the conversation one inch with either post.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Still can't decide which is worse... being

this guy.

Or being

this guy.

 

[xondk]

Your are complelled to be prepared for it because it is a multiplayer game core design.

That is plain and simply false, multiplayer contains much more then player versus player, PvE players against environment for example is without any doubt the biggest part of Elite, PvP is nothing special in Elite, the game itself really doesn't care if you kill a player or npc thus, you are not compelled to go after players, when to the game, you get just as much going after an npc.

 

[amigacooke]

Not this thread again.

 

[Siobhan]

Not this thread again.

You are in a maze of twisty little PvP/PvE threads, all alike.

 

[Yank31]

All along, as the weaker/slower golden fish are done in, even the fittest of the golden fish are easy targets for the piranhas. It's called attrition. The herd mentality is no solution, you're talking about diluting the threat. Since, no one wants to be the victim, even if they know they are saving others from falling prey, for a time, what makes you think this is a viable solution? People, individual people, decide to play in a more civilized atmosphere than open can provide. The die is cast.

It's not a solution, I agree. But only because it will never happen, because it was a promise, to have a solo mode.

And also because people who enjoy solo / private to begin with, don't see a problem. They want to be alone / only with friends, they get that, no problem. Who am I to say otherwise? What should/would Frontier listen to this guy and not us? The game is fine as is, let's troll the next solo/open/private topic. It's all in good fun. Look I made 600M in solo, maybe next month I'll go hunt in open, but I need to engineer my Corvette first.

Those people are treating open like a pvp mode. And that's a/the problem (see above, piranhas aquarium).


The only people suffering from different modes, are the people that just want to play in open. Because they want to meet other cmdrs, that's the point of open. To interact (wings, chat, murder, piracy, casual hailing, you name it) or not even to interact, just to get a sense of... I don't know, humanity. I loved playing in open in 2015 (before my break).

So of course, they are the only one asking for a change, because they are the only one "hurt" by the separation. And since open is renown AND treated like a pvp arena, well, people don't fall for it. We won't come to your mode to act as prey, thank you very much.

I'm sorry, I'm rushing this post, I was planning to make a topic actually, but... this one was up, I guess.


Without looking for a solution (why bother, frankly), I'll just say it again : there is clearly a situation right now, all my (triple elite, multi-billionaires) friends are hiding in solo/private. And so do I.

 

[verminstar]

No but seriously though, there is a situation going.

I just came back from a 2 years break, 1 week ago. To my surprise, most of the people in my friend list are still playing, actively too. Which in itself, is a testament on how hooking the game is, no doubt. But, they all are playing in private or solo. Nobody goes to open.

So I asked them : "why not go to open, open is the best mode guys, we used to to wings together, open is where the fun is, it's called Eliteangerous, you've been playing for years now, you have billions, triple elite, all the ships... surely you can handle open... what is going on ?!"

"No, we won't go to open. Why would we go to open. We have no interest in getting demolished by some random guy that will just shoot on sight with an over-engineered ship, without a word. Do what you want, but we stick to private/solo, it's the same." they say.

Nonsense, I said. You guys don't know how to handle another player, what happened to you all...

3 days later in open, many commanders were met and the game was looking fine. I was being quite cautious though, seeing that I was still carrying 160.000 Ly worth of exploration data in my haul. Meaning I would be extra careful actually, and only flying in my (2 years old) combat Python.

But then, this player in FAS interdicted me. No words were spoken, he just obliterated my shield before I could realize what the f... was going on. And well, I tried my best but my best was clearly lacking, so I died. Goodbye data, thanks. This guy actually killed me 3 times in a row that night. Not a single word.

And I hate to say this, but I will, from this point on I play in solo/private. Yes I've already lost what I was supposed to protect, but I guess it's just... pointless, as they said, to play in open. Getting obliterated in seconds, because I don't have the proper pvp ship/build/skills, well... me, I guess I'll pass.

It's a real shame.


So my suggestion is (you're all allowed to laugh) : get rid of the solo and private. Keep only open, and then balance the thing so that people can actually live together. Piracy is great, even assassination player killing is OK, but it needs to be tuned to get along well with other professions.

Right now people are hiding in solo/private, myself included. Which makes the situation even worse for the poor/brave soul that just want to enjoy the game in open, let's call him the golden fish. If you have an aquarium with 100 golden fishes and 5 piranhas, then each golden fish is reasonably safe, because there's 99 others that can act as target / decoy / resistance.

But if all the golden fish go and hide in the "solo" or "private" aquariums, then the next golden fish who gets put in the "open" one, well... I wish him good luck, versus 5 starved piranhas.

Which also means that all of you that go and hide in solo or private (myself included right now), whatever the reason is ("just to be safe you know", "in open people are crazy", "get real, you just can't trust open" "I heard they have long nails and rotten teeth in open", "what's the point in playing on open, I just want to be alone", "Don't talk to me", "In 1984 Elite was a solo game so thank you very much, but I'll play solo") are directly, if not making, contributing to the "pvp fiesta" that open mode has become.

Seen this story repeated many times from many players...this is what open has become unfortunately.

If ye been gone two years, then yer friends could have simply added that the rngeers didn't just tip the balance between pvp and pve...it absolutely destroyed any semblance of balance. Without engineers, one really is taking an awful big risk in open nowadays, and that's what made the rift so severe.

Now get ready fer the constant accusations of "hiding in solo" or being a coward and this game ain't fer you...heard it all before bla bla bla...I'm sure ye can guess ^

 

[babelfisch]

Contribute to the conversation. Bring your issues to the fore, instead of directing traffic. You may have had your say with me over my retort, but you haven't moved the conversation one inch with either post.

The conversation hasn't moved one inch since it first started a few years ago...

 

[Mohrgan]

The conversation hasn't moved one inch since it first started a few years ago...

Boom. Done then.

The exodus from open started well before Engineers. Engineers just pushed some of the less dedicated PvP'ers to ditch open along with the others. It's the same thing. I left open because the all-'rounder type builds I prefer, were already wildly out-gunned by the purpose built ships. I can see no difference from that justification, to the one put forth damning the Engineers.

 

[PeLucheuh]

That is plain and simply false, multiplayer contains much more then player versus player, PvE players against environment for example is without any doubt the biggest part of Elite, PvP is nothing special in Elite, the game itself really doesn't care if you kill a player or npc thus, you are not compelled to go after players, when to the game, you get just as much going after an npc.

Read it again please (context : in Open) :
Your are complelled to be prepared for it because it is a multiplayer game core design.

I am not talking about activity (optional) but fonctionality (non optional multiplayer game core design). Of course ED is not only PvP and that is not what i say.

What i say is if you play in Open you have to acknowledge that PvP interaction can happen no matter what you want because it is a non optional fonctionnality and you can't choose optional activities others players will do.

in other words (context : in Open) : it is not because you don't want to shoot others that others won't shoot you. That is why you have to be prepared.

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

Because, they want open to resolve itself. If they made it impossible to PvP from the beginning, they would have never gotten those customers. With that, making a PvE-Open leaves FD vulnerable to cries of betrayal from those looking to PvP. In FD's defense, they have been supportive of the ever growing Mobius community. Whether we like it or not, the Mobius private groups are the defacto PvE-Open.

Why should it bother pvp players if fd made a pve open. They would still have their pvp server, and the ability to pvp as much as they want.

All that a pve server does is allow people to "play their way". Those who want to pvp will be able to, those who want a dangerous universe where they can get ganked will be able to, those who want to gank those players will be able to. The only difference would be those who dont want to pvp (you know the majority of elite dangerous playerbase as confirmed by fd themselves) wont have to.

As to mobius, its a bandaid, it is in no way a defacto pve server as pve rules arent enforced AND it has a cap of 20,000 players.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Just one thought: A MP game lives from its playerbase. When the playerbase shrinks for whatever reason the is gonna MP suck. The crap attitude of some PvP players isn't really helping. Whatever, I don't see all the players go on without friction in ED's current framework. Dedicated PvE and PvP just don't go well together and that's nobody's fault - it's just game design that doesn't work out.

 

[Siobhan]

I suspect the only real reason that there is no OpenPvE mode is that E: D isn't set up with any PvE restrictions in place at all (yet).
The only difference between the modes is basically firewalling...
- In Open with individual blocking, you get a black list
- In PGs you get a white list
- In Solo you get... well you.

Nothing in any mode stops you shooting other players (the exception being that in solo, there just aren't any other players to shoot at). It's all done by agreement.

Maybe one day we will get an OpenPvE, but it's not as simple as flipping a switch. There's probably rather a lot of internal changes that would need to be made first. Maybe FDev are working on it, but until and unless they're ready to test it (probably in a PG like Mobius), then I very much doubt that most of us will hear a single word on it from them.

 

[babelfisch]

Boom. Done then.

The exodus from open started well before Engineers. Engineers just pushed some of the less dedicated PvP'ers to ditch open along with the others. It's the same thing. I left open because the all-'rounder type builds I prefer, were already wildly out-gunned by the purpose built ships. I can see no difference from that justification, to the one put forth damning the Engineers.

I absolutely agree with you there. For me the only way to have proper PvP would be to force every CMDR in the same ships with the same load out. But I understand that this is a very subjective opinion. And it doesn't work well with the Sandbox nature of the game. You could have some sort of CQC mode in the main game where people launch SLFs from the capital ships though. You would need to enlist to the navy first and maybe your rank determines the different loadouts that are available and your payment.

 

[Mohrgan]

Why should it bother pvp players if fd made a pve open. They would still have their pvp server, and the ability to pvp as much as they want.

All that a pve server does is allow people to "play their way". Those who want to pvp will be able to, those who want a dangerous universe where they can get ganked will be able to, those who want to gank those players will be able to. The only difference would be those who dont want to pvp (you know the majority of elite dangerous playerbase as confirmed by fd themselves) wont have to.

As to mobius, its a bandaid, it is in no way a defacto pve server as pve rules arent enforced AND it has a cap of 20,000 players.

Because the herd, their prey, will be gone in an instance. Any of the players sticking it out in open now, for the chance to meet others, would be gone with a click. Right now, player interaction is being held hostage to PvP. The only carrot open has left is the other players you could meet.

You are preaching to the choir. I am all in favor of a PvE-Open. De facto means: In Truth, and that's what we have. FD supporting the Mobius groups to accept their growth. Adapting the Private Group feature to support what Mobius and Friends are doing. I see that as De Facto.

 

[Yank31]

All that a pve server does is allow people to "play their way".

No, and this is, in my eyes, the first and most common mistake, when it comes to this matter. That's also why solo/private players come to these topics to just troll, because w/e, they have what they want, what's the problem?

"Let me be, I'm fine."

No, because we (I) want you and everyone to populate open. So no, a pve server does not only allow people to play their way (it sure does that), but it ALSO subtract those people from the other mode. Where you are missed.


"If you want to pvp, you can just go to open."

Yeah but no, because it's open, it's not pvp arena... sure some people don't behave, but it's mainly the fact that everyone can just *snap* disappear from this mode and go in solo/private at will, that slowly makes it a de facto pvp thing. You can totally PVE in open, with friends, with strangers, alone while minding your surroundings for potential offensive player action. That's what I did all 2015, and it was great.

I guess nobody pirates any more (not that it ever really worked, but...).

Anyway. Please just realize that going in solo / playing your way in private is not just that. Some people do enjoy the randomness that only open can provide, it does require cmdrs of all sorts to be there, and they're not.

 

[verminstar]

No, and this is, in my eyes, the first and most common mistake, when it comes to this matter. That's also why solo/private players come to these topics to just troll, because w/e, they have what they want, what's the problem?

"Let me be, I'm fine."

No, because we (I) want you and everyone to populate open. So no, a pve server does not only allow people to play their way (it sure does that), but it ALSO subtract those people from the other mode. Where you are missed.


"If you want to pvp, you can just go to open."

Yeah but no, because it's open, it's not pvp arena... sure some people don't behave, but it's mainly the fact that everyone can just *snap* disappear from this mode and go in solo/private at will, that slowly makes it a de facto pvp thing. You can totally PVE in open, with friends, with strangers, alone while minding your surroundings for potential offensive player action. That's what I did all 2015, and it was great.

I guess nobody pirates any more (not that it ever really worked, but...).

Anyway. Please just realize that going in solo / playing your way in private is not just that. Some people do enjoy the randomness that only open can provide, it does require cmdrs of all sorts to be there, and they're not.

And until attitudes or the environment changes, that's almost certainly how things are gonna stay ^

 

[Minonian]

Still can't decide which is worse... being

https://synchromiss.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/love-a-lot-bear.jpg

this guy.

Or being

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...KAGWBZpjG3UwfnhXE3dafd6NEBNhPZQMPO-1r_7hhjG18

this guy.

Here we go again... Another attempt to make the vitims look as bad than the violators.

Care to tell me, why the victim as much a sinner than the attacker?
Can any of you reason this? And by reason i meant something what actually have a hint of logics, and not your usual you deserved that because you was not careful enough, its just tough love, because you must be more careful, better player usual yadda yadda.

 

[Cageman]

No, and this is, in my eyes, the first and most common mistake, when it comes to this matter. That's also why solo/private players come to these topics to just troll, because w/e, they have what they want, what's the problem?

When I play in Mobius, which is a PG, now split into 3 different PGs because PvE is what the majority wants to play, I am limited to around 19000 possible encounters with other players that wants to play PvE.

If there was a Open PvE Mode, that number would probably increase to about 50000 players. Probably more. And you want to deny me that... why?

The flaw in your logic here is that you are complaining about "missing people" in Open; but no matter if there ever will be an Open PvE mode or not, you will never see these players in Open as it is anyways.

 

[Stigbob]

Fracturing Open into a cluster of arbitrarily exclusionary instances is no return to Open, just a degradation of it's function and purpose.

It's just a game it has no function or purpose beyond being entertaining. I'll apply the block function whenever and however I wish, just as I'll use whichever mode I feel like at the time.

These things are up to the individual player, you have no control over anyone elses decisions and shouldn't worry about it.