Star Citizen Thread v6

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This one is interesting CIG "MMO" marketing stuff - so what happens when those thousands of players will try to see each other at the same location?!

Guess what?! "Elite" will happen :D ...answer here you wont be able to see all players, because at certain limit (24, 48, 64...) game client will crash and burn...like in "other" low fidelity games...

I am 100 % sure if there will be a game, they will have the same old Elite instancing system in the end...

It *always* was about same instancing system. Never had been any different. Those magic Germans are mostly doing Planetside stuff which gives you *illusion* of many players being at same place.

At this point 24 players in same instance for SC is just not good enough. When you can get same result with peer to peer.
 
As long as I've been on these boards, the SC thread was always number one in the General Gaming Discussion thread. For the last few weeks, it's been slipping. Today it's number 7 (Well, until I post this anyway.)

End days are approaching.
 
No people are slowly realizing its not a scam and just have nothing to whine about. Thats all thats discussed in these threads. Actual SC fans left 5 threads ago.

Hey Wylie I'm waiting for your answer!!
Did they announced the delay of SM or why it happened? (I'm talking in that moment, not the interview a magazine made more than a year later)

Communication is not CIG's best skill...

And BTW I'm a "fan" of SC or at least the idea of it, but I'm not a fanatic to avoid seeing when they .... it up or do things in the wrong way. And I have every right to say it.
 
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No people are slowly realizing its not a scam and just have nothing to whine about. Thats all thats discussed in these threads. Actual SC fans left 5 threads ago.

Look its the StaCi....trying to spread and protect their narrative. I wonder who betrayed our cause!:D
 
No people are slowly realizing its not a scam and just have nothing to whine about. Thats all thats discussed in these threads. Actual SC fans left 5 threads ago.

Wylie

I do not think it is a scam, definitely room for whining (is that a word) over delays and bugs stopping promised items coming through.
But having seen some recent ATV's ETC if I was a 100% SC hater, I would be getting worried and deleting some of my previous posts about things like seamless transition and procedural worlds.
No sign of DS recently.
My main current worry about SC at the moment is the netcode, it seems like a big hurdle with no firm sign of a fix that will allow 1000's of people in a single instance, still fingers crossed.

NB I'm an SC fan, I'm here when they let me.
 
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From the SA thread, some insight into missiles.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1581#post474701983
Let me tell you about missiles shall I?

In most games, missiles are rather simple constructs since you have to factor in the possibility that players will spam them when their supplies are full. Generally the more realistic a simulation gets, the more complexity you also find in the missiles. All the way up to for example a DCS where the missiles are pretty much equal in simulation depth to the planes itself. The game can afford that because even in a harsh engagement, missile use is complex and you won't find 2 digit numbers of them in air usually.

Cig, visionary company, again thought it would be mighty cool to inject high complexity missile simulation into what's basically intended as an arcade combat design (this isn't a judgement, it's just a design philosophy)

Now before we go into the details of how they screwed it all up, please take the time and go Google star citizen DB and check out just how much crap gets calculated for a single missile launch and engagement

Here I just copy pasted the headers of the component data that a missile inherits in star citizen


code:
local name name category class type subtype manufacturer size mass hp price
damage physical (hp) damage cluster (hp) explosion radius (m) lifetime (s) max range (m)
signal type guidance type tracking distance (m) angle (°) ignition time (s)
intercept accel main (m/s²) intercept accel mav (/s²) intercept accel rotation (/s²)
intercept speed angular (°/s) terminal accel main (m/s²) terminal accel mav (/s²)
terminal accel rotation
(/s²) terminal speed angular (°/s) boost accel main (m/s²) boost accel mav (/s²) boost accel rotation (/s²)
boost speed angular (°/s) accel cost linear (fuel) accel cost angular (fuel) fuel terminal time (s) signal
minimum signal maximum signal amp seeking noise amp no lock timeout (s)
cluster missiles
cluster count (missiles) trigger distance (m) trigger angle (°) eject speed (m/s)

As you can see from these data headers, missiles are fully simulated IFCS objects, which means they have a complex multi order flight model instead of a simple speed and direction one.

Now I said before hit detection and hit recognition are all client side. This doesn't go for missiles. Missiles are essentially AI ships and they are server controlled.
Now remember the servers already themselves with the least bit of load from single digit client numbers (10 people on server becomes a hindrance to good gameplay already) and now you have ships like the gladiator which can fire 8 missiles in short order, or the constellation with over 20 missiles.

But not enough. This is still not completely horrible. For that we need the cig factor.


Goons and goonettes, I present you, the rattler missile.



Gaze your eyes upon Roberts wet dream from wing commander times. A missile that fires 8 other missiles. And it's the best missile in game to and comes with a hardpoint size that almost any ship can carry.


Now imagine 2 people fire 2 missiles at each other. That's suddenly 32 physics enables ifcs controlled warheads on a server that's on last inch life support already. Absolute carnage.

You wanna know why you don't see people rattler spamming anymore nowadays? Because this has been Un touched for almost a year. Cig knew about this just as long as well. Just nobody did anything about it. So even the numbest missile spammer couldn't keep a straight face anymore after bringing the server down a fith time a night after all these months. The problem so to speak, has been solved by not touching it for so long that everybody just stopped playing.

Oh and guess what Roberts decided to put into 2.6?




Missile pickups...

[video]http://i.imgur.com/P0hx7Rn.mp4[/video]
 
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No people are slowly realizing its not a scam and just have nothing to whine about. Thats all thats discussed in these threads. Actual SC fans left 5 threads ago.

Its more like most sane persons realized what a scam Star Citizen probably is and gave up defending it with utterly unrealistic and far-fetched arguments. So apart from some really hardcore white knights the thread itself has calmed down considerably in the last few months and only gets its "spurs of activity" when certain people post yet another hilarious defense or outright lie.

If it only was for the message itself the thread would ve died down years ago probably. By now its the same old same old go-around in topic because logic and realism are too hard on some people oh and of course theres always a new sucker with an inability to read who has to bring up the exact same points time and time again. The sad part is that its actual SC fans, people who root for the game or have a serious interest into it which are mostly left in this thread. And then you have the crazy people who are unable to bring up serious points or arguments and mostly are here because they dont know when to stop and "fighting the fight" is more important to them then the actual topic at hands.

The irony about it is that its CiG themselves who have discouraged and disappointed most people for being verbal for them and stepping up to defend their working methods and utter lack of quality results takes some serious courage nowadays as it only underlines how twisted your own perception must be in order to be "okay" with it. I would be ashamed for CiG too if I was a "fan".

The percentage of people participating in this thread has simply shifted. Nowadays you only have a fraction of crazies compared to past times and disarming their last-resort and most of the time unrealistic arguments is way too easy. Most people "got it" by now and either flipped their opinion or stopped posting. Theres hardly anything new about SC that hasnt been said already and CIG itself provides smoke and mirror stuff which could be discussed in increasingly lesser frequency so theres your explanation.


IMO....I think its a good thing that Star Citizen gets less media and public attention. That project is a disgrace for game development all over the world, wasting resources and time and keeping up hope with lies and illusions in order to keep its spot at the trough. The leaders of the company need to be uncovered for the incompetent and lying thugs they are. If it only was about creating a game and giving it an honest try this project would ve been dead the moment its creators realized its impossible to achieve but they were already corrupted by money at that point. So instead the game is "changing" these days because its impossible to create as originally pitched (before or after 2014 when the scope creep hit, take your pick) and in the end theres only one thing left to say and it might be a sting for many but its true nevertheless......
 
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Hey Wylie I'm waiting for your answer!!


And BTW I'm a "fan" of SC or at least the idea of it, but I'm not a fanatic to avoid seeing when they f*ck it up or do things in the wrong way. And I have every right to say it.

What answer? I dont visit every day and several pages are added a day so any converstaions i may have started im not searching for. If its the last one i remember i did give you an answer. Your reply didnt hold any water. Delays are not planned, so of course at the time of estimating a date they arent going to say, "there is going to be a delay". That happens when the delay happens and not before. If its the one about not every featuring being in 3.0 and pushed to 3.1/3.2/ Thats because the features we have are signifincatly more developed than thier first design, and they have added item 2.0, which require refactoring of almost every part of the game. A multi-million dollar budget that isnt 90% advertising allows this. This isnt your typical AAA title where they play things safe and do the least work possible to launch ASAP. These guys are willing to delay things and of people who were never going to be a good addition to the community to begin with, for a better end product for the actual fans of the game.

This very same thing happened with 2.0. Everyone said it was never going to happen, they werent going to deliver, blah blah blah, and they did. I wont hear any of this bull. Im not even capable of buying this game. Im as biased as they you can get. I just dont compulsively try to paint everything in a bad light like the modern mainstream community. Im well aware that if you take things out of context and reword things, you can make anything look bad, but that doesnt change the original context. This is the community who calls Sean Murray a liar for doing the exact same thing David Braben did, talking about the future of his game. Like braben he never actually promised a single feature not currently in the game, nor did he even imply they would be there in 1.0. So excuse me for not sharing you warped views of world. Just because you make an assumption, doesnt mean thats what a developer actually said.

SC is in a perfectly fine state for its 4.5 years of developement. No other open world game of its scope or budget would be much further. As a consumer you rarely see what an in-progress game that isnt constantly trying to look like a live build, looks like. You really arent in a place to say how good the game is doing. Only an SE, really one that has worked on large projects, can tell you. From my experiance with smaller scale projects, the game is progressing perfectly fine. They are getting groundwork done, the company is growing, thier money isnt running out.

Perhaps the biggest problem is maybe you dont understand modern game development works. I think plenty of people still think that, the game is designed, then programmers go in and make the mechanics and the levels. But thats not how modern game development works anymore. There is a third step you dont see till the very end. You have designers who tell the programmers, the game needs x. Then the programmers make x work. Then they go to a different set of people, i call then "content designers" actual titles vary in the industry, and figure out what levels of control they need. Then the programmers create tools for the content designers to make the actual game. Which means the meat of the game is created almost at the very end. You see some of this with thier solar system creationt tool with how easy it is to now create a working system, thier planet creation tool and how they have really simply tools with a lot of automation that make things extremely quick and painless. Once all these tools are created and all the functionality is there, then the meat of the game will follow in 9 months to a year. Maybe less with the procedural systems being in the game. Taking that into account, the state of the game at 4.5 years and thier dedication to quality and getting things exactly how they want it, its exactly where it should be.
 
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There is a easily available and verifiable record of what CIG devs have said though. You just need the patience to go through literally years of content to find it sometimes though.

As to what CIG have actually delivered, we all just wait for the next update and see what's in it.
 
Its more like most sane persons realized what a scam Star Citizen probably is and gave up defending it with utterly unrealistic and far-fetched arguments. So apart from some really hardcore white knights the thread itself has calmed down considerably in the last few months and only gets its "spurs of activity" when certain people post yet another hilarious defense or outright lie.

If it only was for the message itself the thread would ve died down years ago probably. By now its the same old same old go-around in topic because logic and realism are too hard on some people oh and of course theres always a new sucker with an inability to read who has to bring up the exact same points time and time again. The sad part is that its actual SC fans, people who root for the game or have a serious interest into it which are mostly left in this thread. And then you have the crazy people who are unable to bring up serious points or arguments and mostly are here because they dont know when to stop and "fighting the fight" is more important to them then the actual topic at hands.

The irony about it is that its CiG themselves who have discouraged and disappointed most people for being verbal for them and stepping up to defend their working methods and utter lack of quality results takes some serious courage nowadays as it only underlines how twisted your own perception must be in order to be "okay" with it. I would be ashamed for CiG too if I was a "fan".

The percentage of people participating in this thread has simply shifted. Nowadays you only have a fraction of crazies compared to past times and disarming their last-resort and most of the time unrealistic arguments is way too easy. Most people "got it" by now and either flipped their opinion or stopped posting. Theres hardly anything new about SC that hasnt been said already and CIG itself provides smoke and mirror stuff which could be discussed in increasingly lesser frequency so theres your explanation.


IMO....I think its a good thing that Star Citizen gets less media and public attention. That project is a disgrace for game development all over the world, wasting resources and time and keeping up hope with lies and illusions in order to keep its spot at the trough. The leaders of the company need to be uncovered for the incompetent and lying thugs they are. If it only was about creating a game and giving it an honest try this project would ve been dead the moment its creators realized its impossible to achieve but they were already corrupted by money at that point. So instead the game is "changing" these days because its impossible to create as originally pitched (before or after 2014 when the scope creep hit, take your pick) and in the end theres only one thing left to say and it might be a sting for many but its true nevertheless......

....Derek Smart was right

Where is DS nowadays? I miss him.

Wylie
SC will be fantastic, you are wasting your time here trying to convince a forum of 9 bitter impatient ex backers. Who by the way are also forensic accountants and experienced game developers to boot.
What I am trying to say is that this thread is not about SC most of these guys have not been in SC for years and have no idea what it is like now.

IF YOU ARE AN SC FAN DO NOT POST HERE IT IS NOT A SERIOUS DISCUSSION SITE
 
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If I am reading this not really a Gantt Chart, schedule report thingy correctly.... Shouldnt 3.0 be with the illuminati by now ?
 
Funny how cultizens justify everything wrong with CIG because "it's never been done before" and in the same argue with certainty that SC "is exactly where any other AAA title would be."

No more blind than the one that don't want to see.
 
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