Heh, never beat around the bush I say, just put it out there and if people take offence... well, sucks to be them.
Hostility between certain mindsets aka antagonistic v co-operative play - a short point of view
- Thread starter Crimson Kaim
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Heh, never beat around the bush I say, just put it out there and if people take offence... well, sucks to be them.
I don't know why people find this so complicated. When you play ED, you have three choices: Entering a galaxy where you may have to interact with people role-playing as space-pillocks whether you like it or not, entering a galaxy where people you meet are unlikely to role-play as space-pillocks, and entering a galaxy where the only person who can role-play as a space-pillock is you. None is inherently 'better' than the other. As for 'hardcore', if people want to think of arcade spaceship pew-pew that way, fine. It doesn't convince me though, and if I want meaningful PVP combat, I'll find it in a game that does it better: one of the air combat sims that ED half-heartedly imitates.
Well, that's the thing, innit?
It's a bold step for FDev to try and create a multi-faceted game but it's kinda like making a COD game where you can be a soldier, a farmer, a librarian or a window-cleaner.
Unless there's something to level the playing-field, there's only ever going to be one role which comes out on top.
Yes, but why do the "people role-playing as space-pillocks" not seem to worry about consequences?
If they die, they're out a rebuy, their budget no doubt plans for this. If they can't afford a rebuy, they probably go bounty-hunt. In solo if necessary.
If their targets die, they're out a rebuy, all data/bounties/cargo, and they can plan for this far less. Their only recourse is to go play in solo, as well.
And the risk. If a newer player with none or few engineers unlocked visits a CG, they basically are taking a chance. The PVPer with a fully engineered ship, camping the CG? They are at very little risk, due to experience and equipment superiority. The game doesn't do things send out wings of elite NPC Anacondas out to give them a proper challenge, does it?
ED isn't remotely 'kinda like' COD though.
You guys really don't need to constantly reassure yourselves, you know.
Lions would die if they tried to survive on the grass the zebras thrive on. Lions are weak in the realm of grass predation. The OP is comparing apples and oranges and using sophistry to make the case for mode superiority. So many mmos have addressed this through so many practical strategies, from pve/pvp servers, to declared dueling, to pvp wvw servers. Elite simply was built by folks that lacked a deep understanding of these aspects of mmos and are trying to patch it with C and P Karma and Blocking. Even if we assume every single player wanted to git gud and go pvp to expand their minds, you would still have the genetically imposed normal distribution of capacity. This is a game, if pvp does not interest a person that pays for the game, it's silly to try to shame them into it. Open will be a mess until FDEV looks a little harder at working models that already exist.
Yes, it did. Bad analogies prove nothing at all. I play the game the way I like, and the way I like it has nothing to do with the way people play COD, so whether the COD-imitators think they are on top is irrelevant to me. And from the look of it irrelevant to FD, given the way the game is designed.
If predators are so terrific, it kind of makes you wonder how a species of runty little hairless apes ended up running the planet.
Clearly, there's more to this stuff than being good at killin' other things.
Funny really; all this palaver over blocking and Solo mode is a bit like a video-game version of die-back, and we all know what happens to predators then, right?
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I guess, if I'm being honest with myself, that I'm a hardcore growth type. My flaw is that I'm prideful of it. So I see pvpers attack players who are no challenge to them, and on some level it offends me. How dare they pretend to be what I am? The frauds!
Which is silly, of course. I'm looking at them thinking they should be evaluating themselves by my reference. Challenge = Growth = Good, and the reverse. But many, many pvpers are not like that. They use gimbal weapons, fly fa on, and wing up to kill newbies. They run from 1v1s like a prime contestant in the running of the bulls.
By Jove, their smug attitudes are unfounded!
At the end of the day, it's just a game. They have fun being heels, just like I have fun being a try hard. I started this picking on gankers but honestly the anti growth pve crowd annoys me even more. "The npcs cheat, jet fuel can't melt steel I beams "and on and on. If there is something that crosses me over to the ganking dark side, it will be those anti-growth crying threads. I'm starting to hate sand over here.
Which is silly, of course. I'm looking at them thinking they should be evaluating themselves by my reference. Challenge = Growth = Good, and the reverse. But many, many pvpers are not like that. They use gimbal weapons, fly fa on, and wing up to kill newbies. They run from 1v1s like a prime contestant in the running of the bulls.
By Jove, their smug attitudes are unfounded!
At the end of the day, it's just a game. They have fun being heels, just like I have fun being a try hard. I started this picking on gankers but honestly the anti growth pve crowd annoys me even more. "The npcs cheat, jet fuel can't melt steel I beams "and on and on. If there is something that crosses me over to the ganking dark side, it will be those anti-growth crying threads. I'm starting to hate sand over here.
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Killing is the easy bit, everything else? Well, that requires a bit of thought. Though when you look at the average person these days, it's pretty hard to imagine us staying the dominant species for very long.
Not sure I see anything mutually exclusive between antagonistic and cooperative play.
My CMDR is highly cooperative with his allies and even most strangers, but is also quite antagonistic to his enemies.
By being the supreme incarnation of apex predator.
My CMDR is highly cooperative with his allies and even most strangers, but is also quite antagonistic to his enemies.
By being the supreme incarnation of apex predator.
We're so lethal as a group that the only reason we don't eat ALL the other animals all the time is that we (mostly) agree to not do it. Plus some of them taste gross, like those other apex guys the sharks (poor shark tastes like you marinated it in ammonia-based floor cleaner). And even though sharks think we taste gross too, I think we've eaten waaaaaaay more of them overall than the other way around.
Um agriculture, language, societal constructs, collaboration, science, etc. etc. Again, predatory analogies are terribly flawed in this context. Extend your reasoning - we should all be predators and ship killers. Oops, sorry all of the systems are now in famine and outbreak. Aw dang, those cargo pilots decided to just go around killing each other. There is no ecosystem BGS that wipes out pilots by starving them, giving them diseases, or allows for evolutionary processes with the time frame of game play. Ugh go stand alone in front of a grizzly bear without all of the education, tools and support a society has given you and you'll meet a real apex predator. We need a conversation with FDev about this and not campaigns to push each other into our own favored game mode.