No matter what you do, someone will pigeonhole you.
Hostility between certain mindsets aka antagonistic v co-operative play - a short point of view
- Thread starter Crimson Kaim
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No matter what you do, someone will pigeonhole you.
I'm just a tired, toothless, old poodle. Everyone else feel free to jump up on top of the O Club Bar, and express yourselves. 
*Slurp* I am still drinking my coffee as I am writing this. Is the title alright or does it conflict with any forum law? I am honestly unsure about that so feel free to moderate.
.......
So ask yourself: What are you? Which mindset do you embody?
Don't answer that question. Becuase actions are the only thing that is of value. Words without following actions are as worthless as they can be.
Good morning.
EDIT: Thread got moderated by Yaffle. Smiley is lost
I just wanted to make a note to say thank you for your post Kain; I really enjoyed reading it, and you have kept the tone up and above any of the basal conflicting language styles that we see far too often on here. Well written mate, and well said, I hope more can take heed of that which you have written;
Cheers,
The Hat
But it fits. My word, such strong arguments Mr Darcy
The OP is a collection of statements without a shred of support anywhere to be found. If anyone feels it makes a coherent argument I feel my assessment of the sort of mind that buys into that is spot on.
Or to put it another way: my preditory keen senses have sniffed out the ballcocks posted there, while the fumbling prey which is easily impressed by wordiness awes at the amount of words one has the ability to vormit in a single post.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
But it fits. My word, such strong arguments Mr Darcy
The OP is a collection of statements without a shred of support anywhere to be found. If anyone feels it makes a coherent argument I feel my assessment of the sort of mind that buys into that is spot on.
Or to put it another way: my preditory keen senses have sniffed out the ballcocks posted there, while the fumbling prey which is easily impressed by wordiness awes at the amount of words one has the ability to vormit in a single post.
You what guv ?
I'm not sure, I'm just happy to be playing in the big league your honour.
I'm like a Zebra with reading comprehension and a machine gun.
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To be honest reading the op had me getting quite confused, all those attempts at defining this and that which just doesn't work. Best seen in the two mindsets thing where both just don't fit me at all.
Take "Challenge" - I don't care, and thats it. Or "Sees effort as the path to mastery" and "Thinks potential is predetermined", what weird choice to do is that even, both sound weird to me.
But I guess its the whole differentiation between "good" and "bad" things that happen, in a game like elite there isn't any diffrence in these two for me personaly, both can be just a boring forgettable thing that happend or turn into a great story.
And the whole Hardcore and Casual stuff is just a lost cause, lots of people define that in lots of diffrent ways and I don't even know anymore what is what. It also matters zero.
Take "Challenge" - I don't care, and thats it. Or "Sees effort as the path to mastery" and "Thinks potential is predetermined", what weird choice to do is that even, both sound weird to me.
But I guess its the whole differentiation between "good" and "bad" things that happen, in a game like elite there isn't any diffrence in these two for me personaly, both can be just a boring forgettable thing that happend or turn into a great story.
And the whole Hardcore and Casual stuff is just a lost cause, lots of people define that in lots of diffrent ways and I don't even know anymore what is what. It also matters zero.
yes and on these lists are also some who were put there mailiciously by others as combat loggers when they have never done so. i can say this despite never having seen any of the lists BECAUSE IT ALWAYS HAPPENS. these 'lists' are a griefers charter, exploiters get-out-of-jail and amount to griefing and trolling merely by existing - not because the intent was malicious but because it is impossible to prevent people abusing them. far better not to have vigilante lists. just like in real life, someone who is totally innocent ALWAYS gets attacked, injured or worse killed.Aloha. Sure, in short term noone really enjoys getting blown up. I got destroyed and was mad but the next day I thought it was fun. Shows the other side of the situation and actually encouraged me to continoue to do what I am doing
That said, yes, some PvPers are cloggers as well but these usually get attacked instantly by any honest PvP player. There are certain lists and even bots that alert the players of cloggers. The result is that they gonna hunt the cloggers until they proof they become an honest player ... or indefinately.
Noone likes cloggers. It's an exploit and since FD is not punishing the abusers the community does
I can say, from first hand experience, this is not the case.
And that's why we have video games. No matter how bankrupt or ethically irresponsible something would be in real life (I'm certainly in favor of state welfare and protecting elements of society who need protecting in RL), in a video game between consenting players it doesn't impact us personally.
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unfortunately that doesnt hold for this game. loss of ship and the rebuy is so huge and to make that back is such a lot of REAL TIME spent on the game, it is far more easy to ruin other players enjoyment. in WoW i can ignore requests to duel. in Elite i can stay in solo for the same purpose. but for those who are minding their own business trying to play the game as braben intended to suddenly have someone in a vastly superior ship waste them in seconds and taunt them with 'lol git gud' is a significant loss of the time spent earning the credits they just had wiped out, on top of any loss of mined or bought cargo. the game REQUIRES you either exploit to earn money fast to go pvp with your build - and thus being forced into a single play style - or take risk of having days or weeks of gameplay essentially removed with a scalpel in seconds. you cant go back in time and recover that loss. so it DOES impact you in this game at least.
Well, I was all set to jump in with both feet and answer the question at the end...and then I got to the part where Caim says not to answer the question. So I guess I'll keep my answer to myself.
Anyway, I thought CC did a reasonable job of articulating a very sensitive topic in a way that was about as kid gloves as it possible to get. Of course people are more complex & varied than a simple binary weak vs strong choice would imply, but the little graphic about growth mindset vs fixed mindset was actually pretty useful for illustrating the differences between the camps both in game PvP and in forum PvP.
Anyway, I thought CC did a reasonable job of articulating a very sensitive topic in a way that was about as kid gloves as it possible to get. Of course people are more complex & varied than a simple binary weak vs strong choice would imply, but the little graphic about growth mindset vs fixed mindset was actually pretty useful for illustrating the differences between the camps both in game PvP and in forum PvP.
For the simple angle:
There are some people who prefer to hit you in the face with a football than to throw a pass you can catch. The excuse for hitting you in the face is that it's a game, you need to learn how to catch. It's a community football field, so if you don't like getting hit in the face you should play on your own field, or the field over there no one ever uses. Play alone, so you don't risk getting your face hit, because over on the community field, there be expert face hitters.. err.. I mean footballers who, sure, took some PEDs and other banned substances but they had to because others were doing it. So the substances were taken away, and it's not fair, so the footballers are now going to play a game of "block the side fields" to prove a point.
Yeah
There are some people who prefer to hit you in the face with a football than to throw a pass you can catch. The excuse for hitting you in the face is that it's a game, you need to learn how to catch. It's a community football field, so if you don't like getting hit in the face you should play on your own field, or the field over there no one ever uses. Play alone, so you don't risk getting your face hit, because over on the community field, there be expert face hitters.. err.. I mean footballers who, sure, took some PEDs and other banned substances but they had to because others were doing it. So the substances were taken away, and it's not fair, so the footballers are now going to play a game of "block the side fields" to prove a point.
Yeah
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I am the growth mindset, so far as that image in the OP goes. Outside of Elite, I persist and endure, completing challenging projects even for recreation and aesthetic enjoyment. Other people often tell me I'm nuts.
But so far as Elite goes, IMO it's critical to clearly define "challenge". Personally, I've never considered being randomly killed for no reason a "challenge". Elite gives us some darn simply ways to avoid this, even if Open play was the only mode. So long as the ship can survive the FSD charge, escape can be very probable.
When I think of multiplayer "challenge", my mind goes back to my many years of PvP FPS game play. Years in UT2004, playing vs. some seriously good players, practicing for hours, and loving it all, even the losing. That was a challenge for me, I got pretty good, but I never got ACE good. And then playing WW2 combat flight sims, again the same thing, practice, building skill, and facing the best I could find.
But Elite multiplayer doesn't work that way. I don't have the right ships and gear, and I've got to do A DANG LOT of other things (some of which are very uninteresting for me, personally) to get there. Engineers made this even worse.
So while I did buy Elite for the PvE type stuff, and the PvP forum videos are fantastic fun to watch and spur that desire to participate... I realize that I'm so far from just getting the gear (not to mention breaking up my enjoyment of role-play aspects with my CMDR) before I can even start serious practice. I can tell from the beginning, I don't want to do what it takes to get in position, so I just continue with the PvE/Solo/PG play I originally came for.
But so far as Elite goes, IMO it's critical to clearly define "challenge". Personally, I've never considered being randomly killed for no reason a "challenge". Elite gives us some darn simply ways to avoid this, even if Open play was the only mode. So long as the ship can survive the FSD charge, escape can be very probable.
When I think of multiplayer "challenge", my mind goes back to my many years of PvP FPS game play. Years in UT2004, playing vs. some seriously good players, practicing for hours, and loving it all, even the losing. That was a challenge for me, I got pretty good, but I never got ACE good. And then playing WW2 combat flight sims, again the same thing, practice, building skill, and facing the best I could find.
But Elite multiplayer doesn't work that way. I don't have the right ships and gear, and I've got to do A DANG LOT of other things (some of which are very uninteresting for me, personally) to get there. Engineers made this even worse.
So while I did buy Elite for the PvE type stuff, and the PvP forum videos are fantastic fun to watch and spur that desire to participate... I realize that I'm so far from just getting the gear (not to mention breaking up my enjoyment of role-play aspects with my CMDR) before I can even start serious practice. I can tell from the beginning, I don't want to do what it takes to get in position, so I just continue with the PvE/Solo/PG play I originally came for.
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To be blunt; if you want to be a tool in a PvE game, go right ahead.
If you're being a tool in a PvP game, you ARE impacting people personally.
I'm disappointed that some people struggle with this concept.
I've done both and it's two completely different games. The Open game all but ignores the inherent game design and strives to be totally emergent in nature. It's really fit best for groups, maybe the same folks who were in clans in other games will be in clans in this one and they will play in Open because they like clan wars and guilds. If you're a loner type gamer who plays the game how it comes to you, you're going to be run over by the passing parade of clans, just as if you could enter any FPS where clans are at war with each other, and do so as a loner, just walking around picking up bonuses and such. You'd be shot by every other player in the game just because you're there.
The Open game has plenty of desirable traits, but plenty non-desirable ones as well. The grinding aspect of any mode creates a natural risk that becomes an almost certain problem in Open, so if you bounce back and forth between modes, you're really playing two different games, and gains in one mode will likely be losses in another, regardless which direction you go.
Cheer up sir. Everyone gets it just fine.
Some are just more disingenuous then others when they are pushing their agenda so it just seems that way.
They don't struggle with the concept, they know full well what they are doing is impacting another person, they just don't care. A sad reflection of the world we live in today.
I was trying to be a bit more...graceful but yea.
By way of a little experiment, I wonder if any of the forum's murder-hobo advocates would like to try and justify their actions WITHOUT relying on "cos I can" or any derivative thereof?