Let's Talk About The FDL...

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Because we haven't whined about it recently. Lol

I had this theory that could put the FDL back in to its true bounty hunter role.
Currently it's jump range, and fuel tank, even engineered, is barely enough to catch up anything, and with just 3 jumps worth of fuel, it's makes quite the terrible bounty hunter, and more just a Mini Corvette/In system fighter. Which is fine, of the ships description didn't say it was a Luxury Bounty Hunter ship. Lol

Anyhoo, so let's do some balancing, because just sticking in a 5A FSD would break it, and it probably would lack the fuel for even 1 jump. Lol

First thing I'd do of course, is put in the 5A FSD. That'd give an unengineered battle/travel FDL (guns, full armour fuel scoop, Interdictor, shields, SCBs, boosters, etc), a jump range of around 22~ly, according to coriolis. (If you artificially inflate the 4A FSD optimal mass to 1050, and increase the FSD mass to match a 5A).

Now, that's a bit too good, so I'd also reduce the power plant back down to a 5A, like it used to be.
This would either force you to make tough decisions on what to equip, or overcharge the power plant, and deal with the heat.
Then to deal with the additional fuel usage, which I'm just guessing at, I'd install a 4C 16t tank, so you can actually cover some distance, but probably not much more.

So, what would you think to those changes?

Here's my theory crafted FDL, with a basic weapons loadout.
Theory FDL
I used the sensors to artificially at 8t to simulate the fuel tank being 8t bigger.
Some of the power figures will be off, because I didn't mess with those.

Of course, they could just change the ship description to match it's heavy fighter role instead. Lol

Discuss!

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 

Gunnet

G
Seems like a good change. The FDL is in dire need of a rebalance to make it into the luxury bounty hunter it's supposed to be rather than arguably the most powerful combat ship in the game.

Just FYI, you can get Coriolis to simulate this kind of thing by fiddling with the URL. Here's your FDL with an actual 5A FSD and class 4 fuel tank.
 

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Wyaston Hypatia said:
My only thought: They would first have to introduce a long range bounty hunting mechanic
(I have no idea about the FdL.)
Click to expand...

That too. Lol

To be honest the FDL would just benefit from a 16t fuel tank, instead of all that gubbins I just posted. Lol

It's just a theory too, I don't even use my FDL anymore, because my Python and Anaconda can do the same job, faster, and better. Lol
It just felt like a well rounded idea, that I'd share.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

Gunnet said:
Seems like a good change. The FDL is in dire need of a rebalance to make it into the luxury bounty hunter it's supposed to be rather than arguably the most powerful combat ship in the game.

Just FYI, you can get Coriolis to simulate this kind of thing by fiddling with the URL. Here's your FDL with an actual 5A FSD and class 4 fuel tank.
Click to expand...

Cool, I didn't know you could do that. Lol
I have massive issues using coriolis on my mobile anyway though. I'm surprised I got that far. :D
 

UnhappyDev

UnhappyDev
For me, the FDL is fine as is. Yes, the FSD/fuel tank is a significant downside in the long range bounty hunter role. But it's been buffed and nerfed to death over the years so I say leave it be....and bring on the FDL MKII! Your suggestions would work well for that. I would also tweak the hardpoints for the FDL MKII - 1 less medium hardpoint but a top-mounted huge hardpoint.
 

Marshall...

Marshall...
Gets on horse

The FdL is already overpowered as it is:

Originally it was around 70 million when it was released (matching its luxury bounty hunter tag) - which got reduced
Its powerplant was its Achilles heel (you could not have great shields and energy weapons), which has now been mitigated by engineers

Meanwhile the Python got a major beating with the nerf bat (base shield value + pitch speed to name two) and has never really recovered:(

Gets off horse
 
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CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
UnhappyDev said:
For me, the FDL is fine as is. Yes, the FSD/fuel tank is a significant downside in the long range bounty hunter role. But it's been buffed and nerfed to death over the years so I say leave it be....and bring on the FDL MKII! Your suggestions would work well for that. I would also tweak the hardpoints for the FDL MKII - 1 less medium hardpoint but a top-mounted huge hardpoint.
Click to expand...

An FDL MkII or something would work well.

I'd suggest losing the huge hardpoint on the MkII, for a large. And increase the fuel tank to a 32t, but use the rest of what I suggested in my OP.
And change the cockpit. I hate the FDL cockpit. I want it central :p . Maybe even a single seater to make room for the larger FSD and fuel tank..?

Then it loses some punch, but gains a huge range increase to fulfill the bounty hunter role. It'd still be lethal with 4xC2 and 1xC3.
 

fruitbat

fruitbat
Arc said:
Gets on horse

The FdL is already overpowered as it is:

Originally it was around 70 million when it was released (matching its luxury bounty hunter tag) - which got reduced
Its powerplant was its Achilles heel (you could not have great shields and energy weapons), which has now been mitigated by engineers

Meanwhile the Python got a major beating with the nerf bat (base shield value + pitch speed to name two) and has never really recovered:(

Gets off horse
Click to expand...

I would love to see the pre nerf python back. Would give another decent choice.
 

Ziljan

Ziljan
Wyaston Hypatia said:
My only thought: They would first have to introduce a long range bounty hunting mechanic
(I have no idea about the FdL.)
Click to expand...

Seriously, this. Most folks are so slow at buckyballing that I can beat their 50LY Anacondas with my FDL. And I'd be "OK" with having to jump 3 times for each of there's IFF there was an actual tracking mechanic.

That being said, if there was a tracking mechanic, then the FDL as a hunter ship would be pretty abysmal. Horrible SC agility for interdiction positioning, and anchor weight jump range would make it the laughing stock of the galaxy.
 

yodajedifishmaster

yodajedifishmaster
CMDR_Cosmicspacehead said:
An FDL MkII or something would work well.

I'd suggest losing the huge hardpoint on the MkII, for a large. And increase the fuel tank to a 32t, but use the rest of what I suggested in my OP.
And change the cockpit. I hate the FDL cockpit. I want it central :p . Maybe even a single seater to make room for the larger FSD and fuel tank..?

Then it loses some punch, but gains a huge range increase to fulfill the bounty hunter role. It'd still be lethal with 4xC2 and 1xC3.
Click to expand...
this is something i have been thinking about suggesting - ship design never stands still. a lot of these models are centuries old now - sort of as if we had spitfires still today or p45 mustang, just modified to use jet engines and so on. eventually the manufacturer just cannot tweak the old designs any more to cope with modern advanced systems and so on, the use of space is inefficient with new smaller more powerful modules that still SORT OF need the same class slot - but not so much of it. so you get wasted space in each module slot in older designs.

so i really want FD to have a sort of manufacturer list of what they are working on and when its going to be released, in game. obviously some designs are going to be next gen military - but then it makes obsolete the previous one so then they get slowly auctioned off as mil surplus with some of the advanced secret stuff removed. so you get ex military ships probably both the next mark up (as in viper mk v if that was used by a power) but you also get FDL mk ii. or the FDL-A (for Fer de Lance - Advantage) or some similar thing. FDL NG (next gen). different manufacturers might use different ways of naming - maybe the FDL mk ii would be called the tiger snake. or mongoose.
 

fruitbat

fruitbat
CMDR_Cosmicspacehead said:
My Python is great to fly with DD5, and no armour. :D
I actually prefer it's handling to the FDL, and it's only 50m/s slower.
Click to expand...

Did you ever fly the pre nerf python?

Anyway, my point is that if the pre nerf python was back, the clipper was given a slight tweak, we might see some more ship diversity in PvP rather than endless fdls.
 

Urbanski101

Urbanski101
What's wrong with using a fuel scoop?

The FDL can handle heat much better now and doesn't fry itself when scooping, it takes 15-20 seconds to scoop enough to continue the journey - don't really see the issue with range.

There has to be a downside to every ship otherwise it would end up being the only ship people use. Conda can't land on outposts, Python has no fighter bay, FDL has a poor jump range and no cargo space.

The FDL is still the ship of choice for many combat pilots including me, it fills the niche of being a heavy fighter very well without being too OP. There are many who think it's still OP.

I'd prefer to see some more choice in that price range and role than mess with the FDL.

Edit: I'd also add that FDev's record of introducing side grade ships, Cobra MkIV and Viper MkIV, have not been that great....terrible in fact. I know there is a small hardcore following that love both of those ships but for me they were both truly awful and only really saved by engineering.
 
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Vasious

Vasious
For my weird point of view
Got my FDL out of moth ball for the last Bounty CG for some MultiCrew

In system stuff so fine

When not "Bounty hunting" (in system anti priate operation) with Crew tried my hand at trading in her, amousing 70 tons with no shields or 38 with shields fitted, managed to get into the top 75%, also did a few sight seeing passenger missions, with a first class cabin, and she performed passably

She is slow and steady but if I recall correctly the luxuary label came from the interior which was comfortable for long trips for business execs travelling or bounty hunters stalking targets, when lots of waiting is needed

Oddly we do have that with the "target will be in x system between hours Y & Z" where you travel and wait, presumeable in the luxurious Saud Kruger upgraded Cmdr's Cabin.
Only hiccup comes when the target runs out your range but I have not had that yet, where it matters as as an NPC they do0jnt make another jump so you can catch up.

Still I wouldnt listen to me on what the FDL needs, as I am currently doing the rare good trade CG in mine stopping at Engineers on the way so clearly mad enough to never use the ship for purose anyway.
 

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
fruitbat said:
Did you ever fly the pre nerf python?

Anyway, my point is that if the pre nerf python was back, the clipper was given a slight tweak, we might see some more ship diversity in PvP rather than endless fdls.
Click to expand...

I had an A rated Python for 2 days before the nerf. And while the server's were updating, I brought myself a nice shiny white paintjob for it to celebrate.

I wasn't happy when I logged back in. Lol

I hen immediately switched to my FDL for combat. The Python was too awkward to handle, but I took her out to Sagittarius A* and returned just in time for the Engineers.

Now she's fully modified, with DD5, she's great. Again. Lol

:)

We do need more variety in higher end PvP ships from the usual FDL/Corvette/Cutter crew. Although, most of them just use them to gank other ships. So I like knowing what to look for. Lol
 

fruitbat

fruitbat
Ha! I had mine for 3 days!

My python is fully engineered too (and I enjoy it very much), but it is still the same distance behind a fully engineered FDL as a non engineered python is behind a non engineered FDL.

I really do think the pre nerf python back and engineered would really add to ship diversity being used.
 

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Maybe we need a Military Class Python, less cargo capacity/less versatile, military slots, slightly better handling, and shields. Maybe even an SLF.

?

I made a post recently about different variants of current ships.

I'd love the FDL R-Type (R=Range), Python Type-M (M=Military)
And stuff like that, could be pretty cool for diversity.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 

Noctover

Noctover
Not quite on topic but sort of:

Bounty Hunting dosent really exist in ED. For me it would be about going after a single bounty thats worth a lot of cash. What we have in ED is Bounty Farming. Its not worth scanning around in SC unless its a mission, or jumping system to system....Its about finding a HazRez and just farming it. I think the FDL is fine for this.

The tank and jump range might be low but it still gets you to the farming locations, its not a bad compromise. Look at the Clipper, decent jump range and fuel tank amazing speed, but garbage shields.
 
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