Lead Designers advice on dealing with griefing (part 2)

[Genar-Hofoen]

Why do we care? So that we can protect our damn systems and powers from opposition in PowerPlay. The block mechanic is an exploit. If I shoot a CMDR in respect of defending my own system, that player will block me, hence escaping justice and continue ruining my system unprovoked. The system will be abused heavily, especially as an advantage for UA bombers. A game that is intended to be "dangerous", should not be called "Elite: Harmless".

That's not how the game works though. The BGS is based on "how many people perform <action>" - where <action> could be anything which affects the BGS. This has never ever been designed around PvP.

The other fact which blasts your post out of the skies is this: Instancing. Limited to, I think, about 32 players per instance, but usually works out less than that. So you could have your player group try to blockade a system, and you'll probably manage to interdict and destroy a couple of enemy players. Meanwhile, the vast majority of your enemies are flitting past you in a parallel universe known as a different instance from yours.

Then there's the different platforms, none of which are going to instance with each other. BOOM.

Then there's the client connectivity modes called "Solo" and "Private Group". BOOM.

And lastly, if every single player and group played in Solo, collectively, they would have the exact same influence over the BGS. Because that's how the game really works.

BOOM.

 

[MiiC]

Your last few posts have been talking about "Open" as if it were some special thing.

"Open" is just a name for the game client connectivity mode.

There is but one game we're all playing : The base game called Elite: Dangerous, which is the NPC's, BGS, Galaxy simulation, and so on and so forth.

"Solo", "Group", and "Open" are all just that one game, with the game client doing exactly the same thing in each mode connecting to the same back-end servers.

The only difference between the three connectivity modes is: "Which other game client will I connect to?".

"Open" means the game client will try to connect with any other game client running in the same instance.

"Private Group" means the game client will try to connect with another game client in "Private Group" mode and with the same PG tag name.

"Solo" means the game client will not try to connect with another game client.

Nothing special about Open one bit. This is why the blocking feature should not be so controversial - all it means is a player's game client will not try to connect with the game client of the player who has been blocked.

If folks are getting so worked up about a handful of players being added to a block list, they should be positively livid that "Solo" and "Private Group" connectivity modes are basically equal to BlockList++, because that's basically what those two connectivity modes effectively are.

If you need to block someone in a private group maybe you aren in the wrong private group.
If yo need to block someone playing solo maybe you got the wrong commander in your friend list.
The block tool has a bad dessing, if I play fair and I kill you 'coz you are an enemy and you block me for that you are using the tool incorrectly. This tool isnt dessigned for making your game easier and this is about what I'm talking.

 

[Stigbob]

Why do we care? So that we can protect our damn systems and powers from opposition in PowerPlay. The block mechanic is an exploit. If I shoot a CMDR in respect of defending my own system, that player will block me, hence escaping justice and continue ruining my system unprovoked. The system will be abused heavily, especially as an advantage for UA bombers. A game that is intended to be "dangerous", should not be called "Elite: Harmless".

You already got answered on the rest but I think the game was named after one of the combat ranks it's not a company mission statement or something, they probably went for dangerous because it sounds funky, unlike "Elite : Elite" which is a bit silly.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

If you need to block someone in a private group maybe you aren in the wrong private group.
If yo need to block someone playing solo maybe you got the wrong commander in your friend list.
The block tool has a bad dessing, if I play fair and I kill you 'cous you are an enemy and you block me for that you are using the tool incorrectly. This tool isnt dessigned for making your game easier and this is about what I'm talking.

Again, you are arguing your point for a game which is not this game.

This game simply doesn't operate the way you think it does.

Other players blocking you for whatever reason, will have next to no effect on your favourite little piece of the Background Simulation, because a group operating against you could affect your 'area' if each player in that group performed the same action in Solo connectivity mode.

Your argument is moot.

 

[MiiC]

Again, you are arguing your point for a game which is not this game.

This game simply doesn't operate the way you think it does.

Other players blocking you for whatever reason, will have next to no effect on your favourite little piece of the Background Simulation, because a group operating against you could affect your 'area' if each player in that group performed the same action in Solo connectivity mode.

Your argument is moot.

The post is about how the blocking tool works, not about how BGS, PG ans solo works, maybe its you who is arguing for irrelevant things in this post sir.

 

[babelfisch]

Open is what it is, and pvp is allowed, is part of the game. If you dont like pvp avoid with real mechanics, not blocking players. Open doesn have easy, normal or hard mode. This is not the way it was dessigned to. My ships are all ready for flying in open and if I get killed I dont block them, I try to learn new things about it.

Blocking players that are better or have better ships or builds than you is not the solution.

I have no problem with PvP being allowed. I also have no problem with the block mechanic. The designers of the game decided there should be a block mechanic before you even joined the forum. Who are you to tell the developers how they designed their game not like they intended, when they made perfectly clear that this is what they intended?

 

[babelfisch]

Why do we care? So that we can protect our damn systems and powers from opposition in PowerPlay. The block mechanic is an exploit. If I shoot a CMDR in respect of defending my own system, that player will block me, hence escaping justice and continue ruining my system unprovoked. The system will be abused heavily, especially as an advantage for UA bombers. A game that is intended to be "dangerous", should not be called "Elite: Harmless".

Looks like you didn't understand the game. They can do this without using the block mechanic simply by using Solo or PG. All three modes are connected to the same BGS. Using the block feature doesn't change anything for you because they could just as well use Solo.

 

[babelfisch]

The post is about how the blocking tool works, not about how BGS, PG ans solo works, maybe its you who is arguing for irrelevant things in this post sir.

Maybe you should listen to players who know how the game works before you make invalid arguments? How should anyone take your argument serious when you obviously have no idea what you are talking about?

 

[Xenith]

I have no problem with PvP being allowed. I also have no problem with the block mechanic. The designers of the game decided there should be a block mechanic before you even joined the forum. Who are you to tell the developers how they designed their game not like they intended, when they made perfectly clear that this is what they intended?

They put it in place for a very good reason too, and if people cannot resist the urge to behave like savages, then of course there will be developer interference. We can't have normal players quitting the game in disgust, just so certain people can enjoy themselves.

 

[Stealthie]

Looks like you didn't understand the game. They can do this without using the block mechanic simply by using Solo or PG. All three modes are connected to the same BGS. Using the block feature doesn't change anything for you because they could just as well use Solo.

Yes, but people can also do it in Open mode.
And that's an especially bad thing.
For some reason.
Apparently.

[where is it]

 

[MiiC]

I have no problem with PvP being allowed. I also have no problem with the block mechanic. The designers of the game decided there should be a block mechanic before you even joined the forum. Who are you to tell the developers how they designed their game not like they intended, when they made perfectly clear that this is what they intended?

who are you to say who is a griefer and whos not? Blocking tool should be the same like report tool, there should be a reason to write.

Maybe you should listen to players who know how the game works before you make invalid arguments? How should anyone take your argument serious when you obviously have no idea what you are talking about?

Playing since day one, dont tell me how play, how to think and what to say. You cant.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Playing since day one, dont tell me how play, how to think and what to say. You cant.

Isn't that what you're doing, though? Telling people not to use the Block feature because you​ have a problem with it?

 

[Xenith]

Isn't that what you're doing, though? Telling people not to use the Block feature because you​ have a problem with it?

Bingo.

 

[MiiC]

Isn't that what you're doing, though? Telling people not to use the Block feature because you​ have a problem with it?

No, im saying the dessign is a big fail, you shoul read my posts. Never told nobody to use it or not. If I report someone I got to give a reason, blocking should be the same.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

No, im saying the dessing is a big fail, you shoul read my posts. Never told nobody to use it or not. If I report someone I got to give a reason, blocking should be the same.

Why should it? It's not the same thing as the Report feature. It's a way for you to remove a player from your game. Yes, I agree it should NOT be used as a way of avoiding legitimate in-game stuff like Powerplay rivalry, and it should only be used sparingly, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist at all. I've used it a grant total of twice, and both times were to remove a player that was acting like a tool and not adding any in-game fun whatsoever. My block list is also currently empty because I don't permanently-block.

 

[jasonbarron]

No, im saying the dessign is a big fail, you shoul read my posts. Never told nobody to use it or not. If I report someone I got to give a reason, blocking should be the same.

You are not alone. I agree that the actual design of the block feature is a fail. An epic fail, tbh. Just because SS put out some half baked, poorly thought out post talking about blocking people in 2014 doesn't mean it is now an objectively well functioning gameplay tool. Personally, after reading Sandro's comments on the subject, as well as David's referencing "griefing teenagers" I think these guys attitudes are somewhat disgraceful, and they're in waaaay over their heads when it comes to enabling an online community.

 

[babelfisch]

who are you to say who is a griefer and whos not? Blocking tool should be the same like report tool, there should be a reason to write.

You completely missed the point. Your argument was that using a block feature would be against the idea of Open. My point was that the Devs decide what they want Open to be, and it looks like the block feature is part of it. Your argument is invalid. A valid argument would be "I am against it because I don't like it".
Well I don't care.

Playing since day one, dont tell me how play, how to think and what to say. You cant.

Again, you missed the point. I am not telling you how to play (that's what you are doing), I am not telling you how to think. I just point out that you obviously don't know how the game works. I also don't tell you what to say, I am just pointing out that it doesn't make sense.

 

[Mohrgan]

No, im saying the dessign is a big fail, you shoul read my posts. Never told nobody to use it or not. If I report someone I got to give a reason, blocking should be the same.

Then, you should have to have a reason to friend someone. The friends list has more effect on instancing than the block list. If I'm going to have to ask permission to block someone, why should I be able to just fill up a friends list without a care?

 

[Susanna]

No.

Agreed. No. A block is just that, you cease to have any dealings with the individual.

 

[Xenith]

You are not alone. I agree that the actual design of the block feature is a fail. An epic fail, tbh. Just because SS put out some half baked, poorly thought out post talking about blocking people in 2014 doesn't mean it is now an objectively well functioning gameplay tool. Personally, after reading Sandro's comments on the subject, as well as David's referencing "griefing teenagers" I think these guys attitudes are somewhat disgraceful, and they're in waaaay over their heads when it comes to enabling an online community.

I've played PvP based games for a good 14 or more years, and their attitudes are actually not as out of touch as you seem to think. Even if the people involved are not physically teenagers, they share a similar mentality, i.e. the enjoyment of messing with other people for the sake of messing with other people, finding childish delight in ruining another person's experience, and generally behaving in a way which cannot be condoned by any normal person, without some serious mental gymnastics.

The fact is, given no restrictions or punishments, people will prey on others without a second thought. Games are very good at highlighting the worst human traits, and whilst some will write this off as "oh, it's just a game", scientists have actually found video games to be very useful data when building models of human behaviour.