I sometimes believe that you are under the wrong impression that every person who plays PvP or piracy is also a griefer in the views of those you are arguing against. That's not true. I have no problem with people enjoying PvP or piracy. I have a problem with people who tell me how I should play the game.
Lead Designers advice on dealing with griefing (part 2)
- Thread starter Stigbob
- Start date
I sometimes believe that you are under the wrong impression that every person who plays PvP or piracy is also a griefer in the views of those you are arguing against. That's not true. I have no problem with people enjoying PvP or piracy. I have a problem with people who tell me how I should play the game.
Same here. I played CSS for a very long time and when we didn't participate in tournaments and leagues we sometimes played on public servers. Guess what happened when someone killed his teammates at the spawn point? He got banned from the server! Just because Open is the "anything goes mode" it doesn't entitle people to act like an idiot.
We have to make do with the tools we have available, the block would potentially not be so vital in a game with properly functioning C&P/Karma. That's some time away, and of uncertain effectiveness at this stage though. So we have to wait and see.
How you define griefing just like the term disgraceful is entirely subjective, you apply it to a throwaway comment where I never would. I apply it to trying to be deliberately annoying in a video game, which you don't have a problem with other players doing.
You think it's bad design, I think it's vital.
We have different opinions, we also have different options available to us. I've got no issues with you making whatever choices you make in either the game or the menu. Is it really worth worrying about mine, especially when you consider it's completely out of your control ?.
My first really serious multiplayer game was Call of Duty, way back in 2003. I put an insane amount of hours into that game, and even ended up with my own clan and my own server. If people acted up, they were warned, and if they continued to spoil the experience for others, then they were removed. Humans need boundaries, in life and in games.
I had my own teams in several games, one of them was the first Medal of Honour. One of the best communities I ever played with, there were even unwritten laws like just one sniper per team. Everyone was fine with it. I always have to laugh when some people tell me "you don't know how to multiplayer and FDEV doesn't know either". Good multiplayer communities create their own rules, but this requires the removal of idiots.
So you choose not to use the block function. Good for you. I've never blocked anyone either. It doesn't make us special or give us the right to tell others not use a game function for it's intended purpose.
I'd certainly look down on someone who did that. But it's a personal choice and a player can use the block list for any reason they want.
Stigbob, in the opening post describes using the block list to avoid instancing with station rammers and bombers because he finds the behaviour more annoying than entertaining. It seems reasonable to me. But he could block players who don't reply to his cheery o7s, and, while it would be ridiculous, he would be within his rights to do so.
The only qualification for blocking someone is that you have been instanced with them and that they appear in your recent contacts. There is no option to check for giving a reason why you are blocking someone. Any player can block any other player, they have met, and nobody ever has to know why.
The only real problem with blocking is that some players don't like the idea of others using it. But it's a petty issue. It certainly is not worth removing a useful tool that improves the game for many players, simply on the grounds that another group of players doesn't like it.
Just to sum up my position for all three of you, I picked out babelfish's post because it allows me to make my point and be brief:
This 100% is exactly what I think of the people who are most prominently pushing this blocking agenda, as well as those lobbying for such harsh penalties with c&p that PvPers who break the rules are "banned from the game entirely." For that last bit, I'm paraphrasing Susanah.
You all claim we're talking about station griefers as if just the "cheaters" and guys laying mines on the landing pads, but what you all really mean is anybody who flies a combat ship and preys on people coming to CG's or the like, SC or near the station itself, for no better reason than they like the action.
See, that's my problem with the whole topic; the premise that somebody wanting to go to Shinrarta/CG's/engineer bases and just shoot at people is somehow a negative trait, as if we aren't flying spaceships bristling with armament and shielding. It's never the player just wants some action in a game that caters to gunplay, it's always "these guys just want to spoil everybody's fun and all they care about is making people unhappy."
News flash, guys (and yes, by "guys" I'm also referring to Braben & Samarco): people like to shoot at other people in a game like this. It doesn't mean they're weird, or twisted, or anti social, or somehow only care about making people cry. It just means they like the action
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We used to do a similar thing, including making rifles the primary weapon, and reducing the abundance of fully automatic weapons. Eventually we had mod tools to play with, and it wasn't long before the server was modded with these restrictions in place, plus a minimal HUD, and a much faster TTK. Good times, I find myself missing them sometimes.
Your paranoia is showing. Why not take people at their words, rather than insisting on some dark hidden conspiracy? I'm sure that each and every Commander can tell the difference between playing the game, player attacks and all, and just running around causing issues. Just as we have to trust you at your word, that you're an honorable PvPer, you'll have to accept the word of other players. It's just as easy for the PvE guys to conger dark images of how PvPers think, as it is for the opposite. You rail against that view, why should you go around harboring the same thoughts in reverse, especially when you spend a considerable amount of time trying to clear up misconceptions in one direction. What would make you only see from one perspective?
P.S. A lot of the game's players don't see it as a shooter. Those that don;t will have opinions different to your own. Tunnel vision much?
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Nobody has a problem with people liking the action. But why do these people have a problem with me opting out of it?
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Because only their way of playing matters, which is very evident from their posts. They EXPECT and DEMAND that you be their sacrificial lamb, and if they can't get that for whatever reason, then obviously the game is hideously broken. Same old, same old. It feels exactly like 2014 all over again, these arguments were played out long ago, and you know what? We still have a block function.
Newsflash: people like not to get shoot at by other people in games, even in games like this, that's why a lot of MMOs offer a PvE only mode.
And, people who like to shoot at other people aren't weird, or twisted, or anti-social. People who insist on shooting at people who don't want to get shoot at and oppose to every option for them to opt out of that "getting shoot at" are those who get seen as weird and at least lacking a good portion of normal social behavior.
Those who just like action aren't the problem in any game. Those other few, these are the type of players how can ruin a game - something game developers really don't like.
The blocking feature is the least invasive solution, the last step before an Open PvE mode becomes a necessity for the game developer.
In the end it's the choice of the players who are so vehemently opposed to the idea that others might not want to play with them if they get "just the block feature" or an Open PvE mode.
FD obviously would prefer not to spend time and money to make an Open PvE mode. No about of lobbing from PvE players could achieve what a few players who insist on forcing their play style on others will achieve.
Have fun guys and gals.
Relax and lean back.
The result is almost inevitable.
Edit: fixed an auto-correction mistake (tested instead of twisted)
A "deep dark conspiracy?" That's pretty funny considering there is nothing dark or hidden about it. The agenda is on clear display.
Blocking is a poorly thought out feature that may be functioning as a bandaid, but ultimately is doing more harm than good due to screwing up instancing. I think if you want to "opt out of it" that's great, but that's what Solo/Group are for, since you can avoid what you see as a negative without screwing up my game while you're at it.
Bois, the irony is this: while you're all jumping on the Blocking bandwagon, Fdev is probably seeing less and less reason to spend any resources on a proper c&p mechanic. Just a thought.
Edit: yeah, so thanks to the guy who complained about my post and got me warned. It really just proves the point of view I've developed and continues to grow stronger on a daily basis.
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It's also worth mentioning that some players lobbied against the three modes being connected to the same BGS and some even wanted to see Solo and PG completely removed from the game. There are maybe 10 people on this forum who think PvP should be removed completely from the game and 10 people who think blocking and PGs should be removed completely. But they are so toxic and players from both camps got so annoyed that discussing these issues in a mature way almost became impossible.
Why?
BTW, there isn't a single person on my block list, and yet I can't see how it is a bad feature. I just can't see why it hurts you so much without thinking about an egoistic person who just wants his own enjoyment to be satisfied. Not because I have a bad view about PvPers (as said above, I played PvP A LOT and probably more than most PvPers on this forum) but because I just don't understand your arguments.
Minonian
Banned
There is a "slight" problem with this. In most case when we do this our words not entirely unfounded, because with his actions and words he already revealed himself.
What means it's not unfounded.
Jason, (no bad conspiracy gags I promise) there isn't an agenda, or I don't have an agenda. I want to be able to opt out of playing with people I find annoying or boring or both, and I have a personal bias against playing any games with cheats (digital or real). And I want to be able to talk to people about that in the forum. That really is it in it's entirety.
I don't mind repeating this as it keeps on coming up.
I actually like PVP, I don't get butt-hurt if I explode, I don't clog, I've never blocked anyone who blew me up, I sometimes hunt noob-gankers or wanted CMDR's just for fun (I'm not very good, but I'm excellent at high waking when it goes wrong), and all my ships are built with open in mind but not specifically for PVP.
In short I have no problem with PVP.
If you want to shoot, shoot by all means available to you, you can also drop mines, fire missiles and ram. You can even call me names in comm, It'll just make me laugh. You can also do it wherever you like.
Just don't do it when I'm inside the no fire zone and 10 feet up from the landing pad or about to take off, because it's boring after nearly three years (I'm not accusing you of this).
I like shooty stuff and I understand. I've never felt the need to splat a noob or wing up just to take on another CMDR though, and I'm not saying you do either. The last time another CMDR shot me I explained via comm how he could clear his friendly fire fine. I was in a corvette he was in a cobra no challenge no fun no point. He's since permanently left open after getting repeatedly ganked by wings at a CG.
Gankers and griefers are the biggest threat there is to open. Tools to use against them might save it.
Seems like you're the one who's out of touch, as a result of being unable to grasp the idea that some people simply aren't interested in PvP combat in ED.
Sandro and DB are able to grasp the idea that people who aren't interested primarily in PvP combat might appreciate the ability to use the block feature to avoid PvP combat while still retain interaction with non-hostile players.
From a PvP player's POV, it makes no difference whether another player blocks them, plays in Solo or joins Mobius.
The result is the same; no pew-pew with that person.
Accept that and move on.
More unfounded assertions about blocking screwing up instancing.
What "harm" has blocking has caused? Who are the victims? How has their game experience been negatively impacted?
I've been both asking for and looking for evidence myself. I have neither been offered or found myself any evidence to support the claims of the negative impacts of blocking. I've found other discussions where people speculate that it might cause issues, but nobody has shown that it is happening.
Don't expect people to accept the argument that blocking is "screwing up your game" if you cannot back it up. If you want it accepted as a valid reason to oppose blocking then show the evidence. Unless that happens expect others to dismiss these assertions.
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