Convincing yourself doesn't count.
Lead Designers advice on dealing with griefing (part 2)
- Thread starter Stigbob
- Start date
Convincing yourself doesn't count.
I have quite high standards of proof. For me to be convinced of what the block functionality is doing is pretty telling.
I've offered to demonstrate the blocking functionality to you. That offer is still open.
As soon as you can account for all of the decisions the matchmaking system has to make as we attempt to isolate the singular effects of the dreaded Block list, I'll come and have a look. In the mean time, I'll judge the Block list against the Friends list. And, it's obvious that the Friends list has more influence than the Block list. So, if we are going to call out the Block list, we should have to reckon with the Friends list as well.
If outside stuffs influencing instancing is a bad thing, the Friends list should be Public Enemy No. 1. Think of all the Friends list exploiting going on as players use the Friends list to improve the likelihood of instancing with specific individuals. How many times have I missed meeting a new Commander, because a friend got in the way?
A
Isolating the block list is pretty easy.
We get some people together, all meet at the same starport. Then we make sure no one is on anyone else's block lists or friends lists and have various combinations of individuals reinstance. Then we start blocking people and see how that changes matchmaking. The only new variable is that list and it's effects are dramatic.
I can, and have, told you what I've observed from tests like this, but you clearly won't take my word for it, so you'll have to show yourself.
In order to judge anything you have to have a fair idea of how it works and both features can be judged independently of the other.
I've pointed out the clear failings of this obtuse reasoning before, but to put an answer to your rhetorical question...unless someone's friend had someone blocked, someone's friend is highly unlikely to get in the way, unless you are pushing the absolute limits of instancing, which is hard to do outside massive player organized events.
This is something that can also be demonstrated.
And, we're back to baseless rantings. Out.
Don't forget wings. Winging up influences instancing more strongly than any other tool players can access. It can even be exploited by groups to gang up on individuals when the game's normal instancing rules would have produced a 1v1.
I propose that wings are changed to provide a shared comms channel by default, but only offer other features if the winged players happen to be instanced with each other organically.
Essentially, this is how the block list will end up being used. Not the original purpose Frontier had in mind, which was to ensure people could silence those refusing to behave according to the ToS; eg racial slurs, repeated abuse. Instead, it's being used as a filter to block en masse, entire swathes of commanders as a methodology to sanitise the experience. Much like Frontier being overly accomodating to disconnected users, and in so doing creating the monster that is rampant CL'ing to everything from other commanders, to the environment, and all between.
If Frontier is guilty of anything, it's not being a jaded development studio with years of online experience it can leverage to built robust online experiences, and instead coding the game from an almost childlike degree of naivety.
We have no idea how this will scale; and people who assume it'll be fine, clearly haven't learned about the endless issues that plagued very large player groups (and still do). Do not assume blocking huge numbers of commanders will be fine. I'm pretty sure at some point people will discover it isn't. Likely because the developer never expected it to be used as a whitewashing tool at scale.
It's the execution, as always, that permits (or not) the inevitable outcomes. I have no issue with block lists of obnoxious people who are breaking ToS. But it's all on the commander concerned, if they abuse the facility. Always.
Last edited:
Wings do indeed have huge influence on instancing, but as that is their prime purpose, is required to reliably have people play together, and isn't defying any reasonable concept of setting verisimilitude, I see no reason for matchmaking weight to not strongly favor wing members.
And before anyone accuses me of being someone who has my CMDR gang up on others, or any other irrelevant and fallacious line of reasoning, I can provide ten-plus examples where I am outnumbered at least three to one for every example anyone can find of me fighting other CMDRs as part of a wing. Indeed, asymmetric conflicts where my CMDR is the underdog are the sort of combat encounters I enjoy most of all...not to say that preference is biasing my opinion on wings either.
Really makes me laugh people can feel "grief" from space pixals! It has to be the saddest community of gamers around.
Its space, the games about exploration and protecting yourself from pirates if it wasn't then they wouldn't of had a cqc made entirely around fighter ships bro. you want to blow up ships? find a cqc match, if you want to pirate then pirate don't just "grief" some one by blowing up there ship just because you happen to find it. it just doesn't make sense
On the flip side to that we have a commuity who is feeling "grief" becuase people are blocking them and dont want to play with them, oh and the endless threads about how little billy CL before I got to blow up his pixals, yeah the saddest community of gamers around for sure.
Well, thank you for your valuable contribution.
Grief is a natural human response to loss.
Griefing on the other hand is causing irritation or frustration to another player. It's called griefing, because it comes from the informal use of the word grief, which means to annoy.
I find it funny that you think people actually felt grief.
Edit : If you actually enjoy other people being annoyed - you are a griefer. FYI
Last edited:
1) I replied to your quote in relation to you equating private groups with a pve mode, My comments I thought were clearly addressed to griefers and gankers in general - not to you specifically (the use of you following the statement of griefers and gankers meaning griefers and gankers, not you). On second reading I can see where that may not have been clear so I appologise for any confusion.
2) I never said I want to be able to play in open cooperatively with other players, or that was the reason I bought the game (neither of which are true by the way) I am just tired of seeing people saying if you want a pve mode you have private group. A private group with no enforced pve rules and a limited player population that has to know about and join it is not the same as a pve mode (which doesn't exist as we both stated) where that play style would be enforced and be easily accessible with no limits.
3) I never said anything against pvp, in fact I specifically mentioned im fine with pvp where both parties want it, or for in game reasons (such as powerplay, bounty hunting etc) even between two combat ships. I was specifically addressing people who destroy non combat ships with no in game motive behind it i.e griefers and gankers. Since there is no in game reward or motive for these attacks and certainly no challenge what other reason could this group have other than satisfaction at interfering with someone else leisure time?
Last edited:
The only partially spite based argument I've seen so far in this thread was the griefer who tried to justify station ramming by saying that through deliberately annoying FDEV by griefing he was expecting to somehow force changes to the game. In other words "I'll ruin other players games till I get my own way".
Oh and the banned fella who said he and his wing were hunting me due to the thread, (LOL).
And the PM's I've had about players being KOS listed for posting positively about block.
There's no requirement for spite to apply a block, just a desire not to play a game with someone. Spite would be a motivator not to apply a block as it implies you want pay-back/to harrass or whatever so blocking is the last thing a spiteful person would do.
See above examples of spite.
Smear campaign ?, can you source that.
I don't care about any of that, this isn't EVE.
I'm glad that you support player choice and the block function.
That would make doxxing, stalking and nasty real world stuff too easy for the spiteful along with possibilities for exploiting the block function.
Last edited:
Even if you don't believe it, it's still true!
Or not.
Last edited by a moderator:
You clearly (feign you) don't understand what Griefing means in the gaming community as a whole…
It's a subjective informal term, so everyone's opinion of it varies just like everyone's opinion of what the silent majority probably think.
Personally I think it means deliberately breaking Wheaton's Law.
From the Book Of Wiki: "A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and angers other players within the game, often using aspects of the game in unintended ways. A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals."