YOU can decide the fate of Lave
- Thread starter Adam Jay
- Start date
Anyone can join the Alliance but no one can leave?
Not really different after all, save the colours and rhetoric.
I don't think you understand.
This was not about anyone "leaving" the Alliance.
This was about an independent faction taking over the system from an alliance faction.
Workers of Lave Liberals, as the governing body of the system are the ones who are to make the decision of leaving the Alliance.
The Alliance is the one who will defend them from anyone threatening that position, which also includes their ability to leave, as long as they are members.
Big difference. 3 months of Lave Radio supporters murdering Lave Liberals security forces (as admitted and promoted in their own podcast mind you) does qualify as an attack to the system's state of peace I'm pretty sure.
Last edited:
So no difference at all, as I said.
The Alliance obviously isn't something voluntary or mutual. You've shown that you consider some systems as owned by you. I would have thought that independence was of paramount importance to the ethos of the Alliance, certainly more important than any Alliance. It wasn't an Imperial nor Federal attack in Lave, was it? It was an indigenous independent party.
Isn't independence of systems what your Alliance seeks to protect?
You mean like how the AEDC did the same in Federation space?
Spare us your hypocritical sanctimonious tripe.
PS: Go Lave Radio! Free Lave!
There seems to be a bizarre misunderstanding what the Alliance is first and foremost: a mutual self-defense pact. That is, an attack on one is considered an attack on all. We are in the Alliance so we're mutually protected and therefore can truly be independent.
The ruling faction, which has been in the system - its home system - since launch is an Alliance faction. Lave Radio Network is a young faction, founded/inserted into the system some time February/March of 3302 or so, according to our records. So, while Lave is LRN's home system, it also is the home system of the Workers. And Lave incorporated. And Lave Fortune Organization (all Alliance factions). Even Defense Party of Lave and Lave Jet Family have been factions in the system for a lot longer than LRN.
So, what right does an independent corporation - a recent arrival, if you like - who never has had much more than 25% (26.6 the day before the war kicked of) of influence in the system have on Lave? None.
The ruling faction, which has been in the system - its home system - since launch is an Alliance faction. Lave Radio Network is a young faction, founded/inserted into the system some time February/March of 3302 or so, according to our records. So, while Lave is LRN's home system, it also is the home system of the Workers. And Lave incorporated. And Lave Fortune Organization (all Alliance factions). Even Defense Party of Lave and Lave Jet Family have been factions in the system for a lot longer than LRN.
So, what right does an independent corporation - a recent arrival, if you like - who never has had much more than 25% (26.6 the day before the war kicked of) of influence in the system have on Lave? None.
Last edited:
Radio Free Lave is merely the catalyst around which Lavians have rallied to throw off the chains of the Alliance and their 'Workers of Lave' lackeys.
The 'Liance desperately pouring their bully boys in to the system may keep it under their thumb for now, but Lave *will* be free once more!
The 'Liance desperately pouring their bully boys in to the system may keep it under their thumb for now, but Lave *will* be free once more!
Last edited:
I love your convoluted and (to me) hypocritical justification for dominating a system. Why don't you just accept you're a superpower and can do what you want? Why is it so necessary to fly these flags of fictitious freedoms and difference?
Lave Radio is young, the Workers are old. Both are indigenous. Who does the future belong to, if not the young?
You're dominating the system, you're preserving your sense of order and society on systems you consider yours. It's okay - you're a superpower! We do it with no pretenses in the Empire and even the Federation only makes half baked propaganda attempts with ideas of freedom, peace and choice.
A bizarre misunderstanding, you say? A coming out in the wash, I say.
I ask again, what is more important; Independence or being under the mutual (and irrevocable) protection of the Alliance?
Independent Corporations are old establishment templates. Alliance Democracies are new.
So I guess the future belongs to the one who inserted new ideas to the table indeed.
Last edited:
Only wicked minds see wicked things everywhere.
If you are a dishonest person, don't project that onto others please. The sole reason why some are so dedicated into spreading the alliance's values is because they truly want people to be independent, they want people to be free. There is not one flying shi(p?) given about "domination"
The real question to me is why would independents wouldn't want to protect their independence ? That's what the Alliance is made for, to protect people's independence and freedom.
Independents fighting against the Alliance sound exactly like 14 yo being mad at their parents because they dared warn them that putting their hand over the fire burner might cause pain... Ridiculous...
If you are a dishonest person, don't project that onto others please. The sole reason why some are so dedicated into spreading the alliance's values is because they truly want people to be independent, they want people to be free. There is not one flying shi(p?) given about "domination"
The real question to me is why would independents wouldn't want to protect their independence ? That's what the Alliance is made for, to protect people's independence and freedom.
Independents fighting against the Alliance sound exactly like 14 yo being mad at their parents because they dared warn them that putting their hand over the fire burner might cause pain... Ridiculous...
I may be new to this, but isn't the whole point of the Alliance, to both protect alliance systems and further the alliance's strength? So that the opted-in systems can remain in the alliance and therefore protected from the other factions or random dangers?
Did I read that a while back, a PMF, who annoyed a lot of people by ruining an event, had their faction beaten down to such an extent that it was lost? Can this happen to Lave radio? If it can then surely only a fool would risk upsetting one of the most cohesive groups in the game?
Did I read that a while back, a PMF, who annoyed a lot of people by ruining an event, had their faction beaten down to such an extent that it was lost? Can this happen to Lave radio? If it can then surely only a fool would risk upsetting one of the most cohesive groups in the game?
That's correct. That's the point. The selling point in fact for Independents to join, since they acquire that extra safety net.
Either way, Lave Radio won't be acted upon vindictively. In facts there are discussions going on for a long term solution.
Other than that, the only explanation I can give about the rest is: "For some people the narrative changes depending on who they like. So we are evil today because they like Lave Radio, but tomorrow might ask for our help because the Feds are knocking on their back door"."
There is not much else to it. Most people know the lore, the Alliance would indeed be justified to defend, etc. It was ok when we defended Lave from the Code because people didn't like the Code. Now what changed is only the standing of whom is behind the attempt to make a claim for the system.
Last edited:
Being part of a superpower isn't being independent. It's being part of a superpower. The opposite of independent.
Alliance is a superpower. Being part of the Alliance isn't being independent. In no imaginable way and no matter how you want to spin it.
You want to promote the Alliance ethos?
Stop being imperialistic and expansive.
Stop being patronizing ( "14 yo being mad at their parents" - really?)
But I know, it's not about freedom, democracy, independence or mutual defense. It's just the same old "we gud, them bad!"
Want to go over the list of the largest Independent groups to see if that "expansive" argument holds any water?
The Alliance "ethos" doesn't mention anywhere that member states are not free to expand anyway. Enforcing the opposite across so many systems sounds like the authoritarian stance if anything else.
Being Independent doesn't mean anything anyway. It just means you're not part of a superpower. The whole attitude that Independents are by default the holy grail of morals and chastity is quite frankly, overblown. As evident here, where the Alliance is slandered for rallying a defensive front.
Last edited:
The Federation is expansionist. It wishes to spread itself to systems against the will of those systems' populations, to allow their MegaCorps to exploit the systems' resources. I understand that there are many voices within each system, but the Alliance should be above the other factions' method of riding roughshod over people's wishes. It is supposed to be about defending freedom, even if that freedom is about freedom from the Alliance itself.
The historical significance of the Alliance within Lave will not be diminished by whoever runs the system now. Lave's significance in today's galaxy is that it's the home of Lave Radio.
The strategic cost of giving up this one system might be dear, but it is also an opportunity to forge a deal with supporters of Lave Radio. More pilots sympathetic to the Alliance may prove more advantageous than any that are geographical.
If the Alliance is about anything it's about diplomacy. I say let the Radio Crew have their system in exchange for them saying a few nice things about the Alliance on the radio. And tell them that any further expansion will be met by swift and effective opposition.
This ^^
Well, no actually.
The Alliance and the Old Worlds is an ongoing narrative.
The history is not over - it's happening now.
There is a two second grab of the GalMap that you can see in one of the GalNet News YouTube vids from back when the Code announced "The New Caribbean" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JRqhj7as6Y uh - it's not that video, there is another one later when Flin and Code leadership were talking smack on Reddit, anyway -
That GalMap had allegiance selected and the region around Lave had a lot of Federation Red.
It's very green nowadays.
The growth of the Alliance in the Old Worlds is not just an AEDC project.
There are many Alliance groups based in and working the region.
The AEDC has been the most vocal and the most visible, but other large and effective Alliance groups have defended their custodianship of the Old Worlds.
I'm not one of the grown-ups sitting at the negotiating table. But two things strike me here:
1) That sounds absolutely like the sort of case that Lave Radio Network will be making.
3) It's kind of hard to sell back to the Alliance CMDRs who have just defended Lave. "a few nice words" seems kinda insufficient.
There were some problems with the diplomatic efforts early on, and you will find that many Alliance CMDRs will hold the position of not giving even an inch.
Getting your proposal through the Alliance Assembly would involve a lot of noise and angst.
We're a irascible mob, with long memories and sharp tongues.
There are other potential solutions, too.
From outside the box here's one: Lave Radio Network could petition for a CG for a Mega-Ship.
or they could petition Brett C to change allegiance to Alliance.
Both of these ideas have significant problems, and are a hard sell to the constituents and stakeholders.
But whatever happens moving forward - force will be met with force.
The Alliance is a mutual-defense pact.
Last edited:
#protectionnotoppression
#notmyalliance
#freelave
#notmyalliance
#freelave