Modes The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

[thirstyfish]

fine, I'll poke my head in and add my two cents:

Gee, wonder why I stay away from open?

I keep hearing about this "karma/rep system" that is supposedly coming our way, but I have to ask: Why has it taken this long for FD to start on it? The issues have been obvious for quite some time. Player A shoots down Player B for the lulz. Player A gets a 6000 credit bounty and clears it with a suicidewinder. Player B gets to pay the rebuy on his/her ship AND loses all cargo AND loses all unclaimed bounties AND loses any exploration data. 6000 credits seems kinda paltry to me. Seems as though same goes on the forums, as Player A would be allowed to post a video of them shooting down Player B without consequence, but the reverse would get Player B banned immediately. Seems like FD enjoys punishing and blaming the victim.

As far as I'm concerned, if this genuinely mattered to FD, then something would have been done some time ago. I have very little respect for those who sit idly by when there are problems that they could easily fix on their own. FD has clearly been quite content to leave things as they are, and we haven't heard anything about any C&P rework until earlier this year anyway. What took you guys so long to notice? Don't bother answering, as I just don't care anymore. There was a point in time where I did care, and I would make arguments back and forth all the time. But now I am just tired of beating my head against a brick wall. Congratulations FD, you win. I pretty much won't bother with open ever again. As open mode was the hallmark of ED (the first Elite game with multiplayer), looks like you failed miserably from where I'm standing. And no, PGs are not a sufficient substitute for those of us who want PvE AND the possibility of seeing other players due to the 20000 player limits on them. They are a band-aid at best, but what good is a band-aid against a gunshot anyway?

 

[Crank Larson]

Missed this last flurry by a few days...anything left to expand upon?

That hasn't been discussed ad nauseam before? We can hope.

But right now I'm blaming you for even being here... You sowed a seed and I clicked the damn link...

 

[Mouse]

fine, I'll poke my head in and add my two cents:

Gee, wonder why I stay away from open?

I keep hearing about this "karma/rep system" that is supposedly coming our way, but I have to ask: Why has it taken this long for FD to start on it? The issues have been obvious for quite some time. Player A shoots down Player B for the lulz. Player A gets a 6000 credit bounty and clears it with a suicidewinder. Player B gets to pay the rebuy on his/her ship AND loses all cargo AND loses all unclaimed bounties AND loses any exploration data. 6000 credits seems kinda paltry to me. Seems as though same goes on the forums, as Player A would be allowed to post a video of them shooting down Player B without consequence, but the reverse would get Player B banned immediately. Seems like FD enjoys punishing and blaming the victim.

As far as I'm concerned, if this genuinely mattered to FD, then something would have been done some time ago. I have very little respect for those who sit idly by when there are problems that they could easily fix on their own. FD has clearly been quite content to leave things as they are, and we haven't heard anything about any C&P rework until earlier this year anyway. What took you guys so long to notice? Don't bother answering, as I just don't care anymore. There was a point in time where I did care, and I would make arguments back and forth all the time. But now I am just tired of beating my head against a brick wall. Congratulations FD, you win. I pretty much won't bother with open ever again. As open mode was the hallmark of ED (the first Elite game with multiplayer), looks like you failed miserably from where I'm standing. And no, PGs are not a sufficient substitute for those of us who want PvE AND the possibility of seeing other players due to the 20000 player limits on them. They are a band-aid at best, but what good is a band-aid against a gunshot anyway?

Very well said.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Actually... if you have a peek on the 2.4 beta forums you can see the detail that they are adding to 2.4...

If you commit murder in a 7 billion Anaconda, switch to a Sidewinder just to get blown up... you will be in for a surprise on the rebuy screen!!!

 

[Zeeman]

Not necessarily given what one Dev has indicated regarding the proportion of the player-base that gets involves in PvP (.... it's not the majority).

I'd be curious what, exactly, that means


Does it mean most people don't play in open? Or does it mean most people don't actively try to kill other people?

I play in open because, for me, it adds to the potential risk. I don't, however, actively pursue PvP... I think that gives an idea as to where I am trying to go here.

Z...

 

[jasonbarron]

Actually... if you have a peek on the 2.4 beta forums you can see the detail that they are adding to 2.4...

If you commit murder in a 7 billion Anaconda, switch to a Sidewinder just to get blown up... you will be in for a surprise on the rebuy screen!!!

The only surprise I'm seeing is where do you go to buy a seven billion credit Anaconda.

 

[sovapid]

The only surprise I'm seeing is where do you go to buy a seven billion credit Anaconda.

Hutton Orbital, they are really nice.

 

[Mouse]

Hutton Orbital, they are really nice.

[noob] Good Mugs to put in them as well.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'd be curious what, exactly, that means

Indeed.

Does it mean most people don't play in open? Or does it mean most people don't actively try to kill other people?

No specifics were offered.

I play in open because, for me, it adds to the potential risk. I don't, however, actively pursue PvP... I think that gives an idea as to where I am trying to go here.

Z...

Sounds like you like the prospect of potential PvP.

This is the quote:

On PvP vs PvE
We listen to both sides. While it's true that the PvP crowd do tend to be more vocal and in previous betas have given more organised feedback, we're well aware that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP.

The use of the phrase "well aware" when noting that "the majority of players don't get involved in PvP", in my opinion, might infer that it's not an insubstantial majority. Other opinions will naturally vary.

The fact that Frontier would seem to be trying to entice players back to Open - might suggest that fewer players than they'd like currently play in that mode.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

I confess, its so comfortable to fly in Private Groups. Having this for quite a while now and running this mode
for sure within participating in CGs. Why? Simply all my ship lossed regarding PVP were from my point of view
senseless (even if allowed) shooting innocent for fun(?) causing multimillion rebuys and cargo losses on top during CG.
Even if I can afford them why I should annoy myself by senseless killing my ship?

If a reasonable C&P is in place I may return. I will return if that senseless attacking ends. PvPers should look for an excuse of their doing.
Not that I will believe their excuses...

I lost some other ships to NPC priates(?) and own stupidity but that's life.

Regards,
Miklos

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
The fact that Frontier would seem to be trying to entice players back to Open - might suggest that fewer players than they'd like currently play in that mode.

Still laughing hard at FDs attempts to get more players into Open Mode by showing them how their employees get destroyed within "seconds" on live streams.

Now they are back at showing interesting stuff in private group. At least they learn, slow but they learn.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…

If a reasonable C&P is in place I may return. I will return if that senseless attacking ends. PvPers should look for an excuse of their doing.
Not that I will believe their excuses...
…

That will never happen. In-game punishment can't deter activities based on out of game motivations. A good C&P system can make the in-game experience more interesting for those who play the game within the setting of the game. It makes the game better for those who attack clean players (or clean NPCs).
It is meaningless for players who attack other players because they have fun attacking other players because they are other humans.

Edit: most PvPers I meet where nice players - it's a minority who spoils it for everybody including other PvP players.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

Still laughing hard at FDs attempts to get more players into Open Mode by showing them how their employees get destroyed within "seconds" on live streams.

Now they are back at showing interesting stuff in private group. At least they learn, slow but they learn.

Maybe they should learn to play the game before entering open. Seriously I would feel like a PvP god against any of them and I'm at best an average pilot.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Maybe they should learn to play the game before entering open. …

Isn't that a scary thought that the developers have no clue how their own game works?

In all games there will be a skill distribution between players, not taking that skill disparity into account while designing a game is a mistake in my opinion and FD did nothing like that. They even made it worse by adding gear progression.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Maybe they should learn to play the game before entering open.

That presupposes that "the game" to be learnt is combat focussed....

While there are most definitely combat opportunities in the game, two of the three paths to Elite do not require the player to fire a shot (although learning how to strategically retreat is a must).

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

Isn't that a scary thought that the developers have no clue how their own game works?

In all games there will be a skill distribution between players, not taking that skill disparity into account while designing a game is a mistake in my opinion and FD did nothing like that. They even made it worse by adding gear progression.

Scary but not surprising that they don't know how their own game works. Take engineering for example, I don't have a huge problem with it but If the developers played for an hour a day for a couple months they might see that it was nowhere near perfect or fun. This is part of the reason why I think C&P will fall on it's face, it will either be heavy handed or easily exploitable because they simply don't spend enough time in game.

That presupposes that "the game" to be learnt is combat focussed....

While there are most definitely combat opportunities in the game, two of the three paths to Elite do not require the player to fire a shot (although learning how to strategically retreat is a must).

Everyone should be able to escape combat. The tools are there for everyone to not fire a shot, they just aren't used.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Everyone should be able to escape combat. The tools are there for everyone to not fire a shot, they just aren't used.

At times, definitely. However there are some ships that will never outrun / outmanoeuvre others and weapons that can temporarily disable FSDs - so there's no guaranteed escape.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Scary but not surprising that they don't know how their own game works. Take engineering for example, I don't have a huge problem with it but If the developers played for an hour a day for a couple months they might see that it was nowhere near perfect or fun. This is part of the reason why I think C&P will fall on it's face, it will either be heavy handed or easily exploitable because they simply don't spend enough time in game.

I agree.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

At times, definitely. However there are some ships that will never outrun / outmanoeuvre others and weapons that can temporarily disable FSDs - so there's no guaranteed escape.

Ahhh we want guaranteed escape now. Thank you for making your position clear.

 

[NeilF]

Still laughing hard at FDs attempts to get more players into Open Mode by showing them how their employees get destroyed within "seconds" on live streams.

Now they are back at showing interesting stuff in private group. At least they learn, slow but they learn.

If we consider the Salomé event, where 99% of the players eagerly trying to participate spent the first 20-30 minutes of it asking, "Has it started yet?" Followed by, "Oh!" Followed by flight back to the bubble... (Of course with some CMDRs also just getting randomly interdicted and destroyed for the lolz too)

And then the recent Thargoid reveal? Where FD suggested players jump into OPEN to take part in the paper chase reveal (while Ed strangely/sensibly played in a Group). Of course numerous players then befell the mindless ganking that ensued. I witnessed Wings of enginered ships turning up to locations and simply mowing down CMDR after CMDR in seconds...


How is any of this a positive advert for OPEN and the mechanics in it? Little constructive gameplay/mechanics even after approaching three years, underlined by the game (still) ignoring toxic cynical activity.