I'm sure that some primal fear of being mauled will ensure that they deliver something that could generously be labelled as an SQ42 demo. But from there to there actually being a SQ42 — even just a small part — is a pretty long step, and one that they haven't really proven themselves all that adept at so far.
Star Citizen Thread v6
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I'm sure that some primal fear of being mauled will ensure that they deliver something that could generously be labelled as an SQ42 demo. But from there to there actually being a SQ42 — even just a small part — is a pretty long step, and one that they haven't really proven themselves all that adept at so far.
If you can shoot stuff, fly a little bit and salute people it is Sq42. Maybe not as long as envisioned, but still.
Making Virtual Poop
The game mechanic that everyone enjoys, coming soon to an Idris near you!
The main question is if they can even release anything, regardless of how it is called. They are trying since a year and it doesn't look like they could.
There were design documents and DB's MVP missed many of the described goals/features as well. I wouldn't bring up ED all the time in this thread as "how it should be done", because even in its current state it doesn't really serve as a good example for a space game. Instead it helps to excuse CR even more.
Viajero
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At the risk of the Yaffle, it is also worth mentioning that:
a) Those design document discussions in the DDF were initially not open to the public eye and only reserved for participation with a minority of alpha backers. They were only made available to the public via copy/pastes and later on via archiving in a public DDA.
b) The eventually open up DDA content has never, ever, been linked to a product sale page description or put forth as a commercial committment in any way, shape or form.
c) Only players who bought in to the game in the period following DDA publication and immediately prior to release in Dec 2014 would have been remotely affected (keep in mind the DDA was never a commercial element in the first place anyways). Based on pre-sales figures given by FDEV that number is probably at most several tens of thousands of players. Following actual release in Dec 2014 any prospective buyer can 100% take an opinion of what the game actually is based on reviews, Twitch/Youtube gameplays etc and actual descriptions of released content, and therefore there is no possibility of "false promises".
By contrast, the most direct equivalent to the DDA in SC, i.e. the Kickstarter, Stretch Goals feature lists and ship concept sale design docs,
a) have been open to public sctrutiny since iniitial publication and still are part of the official sales pitch and description of the product(s) on sale,
b) they still represent (so far) 100% a commercial committment, and
c) have applied to the total population of the game and any future prospective buyers, at least until the game is released and we can see what it actually is. According to CIG own Citizen numbers, we are talking almost 2 million "citizens" (whatever that is) impacted and counting.
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In avoiding to defend FD, I really would like to know what would be "good example" of space game of that scale. Bear in mind, player fantasies and DDF theory crafting just does not qualify (DDF has always been accessible under huge disclaimer about it is just being discussion place not actual development plan point by point. It is certainly place of inspiration for ED, but far too many people read into too much details and come out disappointed).
Devs and we, space game fans, can always strive to get something better, but essentially there's nothing to compare against for ED at this point.
Devs and we, space game fans, can always strive to get something better, but essentially there's nothing to compare against for ED at this point.
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Well I could name a few, the problem would be that they are old games, with graphics compared to lego blocks.
My brain GPU supstituded the lacking part with dreams, and I created a new bubble of reality around the game.
To create a game like that is not possible even with the most powerful GPUS or CPUS you can buy today.
But with legs and atmoplanets ED will get darn close I guess.
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You can certainly compare parts of them and point out as inspiration, but expectations of implementation have certainly grown by multiple, I won't mention network connectivity, graphical fidelity, sound design and arch support, and so on and so forth.
All what old games do is indicate that certain aspects of space game inspire us and awe us. They certainly tell very little how difficulty or even possible is do such features these days.
That is the issue, which actually caused the whole SC disaster: Past the 1990s nobody really delivered on this promise.
During the 90s up until the early 2000s due to the popularity of space-themed cinema and TV space games were also pretty popular, so they got good production values, were made by first class developers like LucasArts on large budgets. Then Chris Roberts came with his vaporware Freelancer and killed the whole genre (just kidding
).Nowadays it's a niche hardly selling a million copies, with most games made on a shoestring budget. The Expanse was initially planned as a MMO, now it's running on TV instead. Maybe CDPR is introduce a change with Cyberpunk 2077. Until then we see people throwing money at industry veterans getting back MVPs.
But isn't that essentially a problem? It will always start as MVP. For all these years with ED I have grown to accept that it will take very long time to get there where majority of players will feel very happy about feature set. That's why I always have shrugged on Chris loud claims that he will do everything at once, not at measly MVP. But problem is you CAN'T do it differently. It is huge, almost impossible task. It takes incredible amount of money (ED certainly have costed FD around 75M at this point) and it takes long time to get somewhere.
While I wanted ED to have a lot more on launch, I also didn't expect it to have planetary landings or walking around at 1.0. It wasn't just possible. Star Citizen is just huge additional reality check on fantasy about 'ready at once' game.
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Ok, guys. I can see Yaffle's eye starting to twitch over there and it's weirding me out.
Y'all better get back on Star Citizen and not Elite Dangerous! I'll distract him as long as I can but I wouldn't wanna be on the receiving end of an off-topic Yaflehammer....
Y'all better get back on Star Citizen and not Elite Dangerous! I'll distract him as long as I can but I wouldn't wanna be on the receiving end of an off-topic Yaflehammer....
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Lets work backwards instead. NMS, that is actually a good game from a certain angle, the possibility to go to a planet and discover life and plants. Is it perfect? nope but still a good achievement with a small team of devs, do I like the graphics? no but that is just a matter of taste.
Dual Universe, not released however in pre Alpha better than SC and really looking promising.
SWTOR, great game I liked it a lot.
Frontier first encounter: great game I played that one to the last pixel, really enjoyed it.
Played some Freelancer but never finished it, I could not get into it, but it was not bad as a game.
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Ohh...thats an old news...as I remember SM was hacked almost immediately it was released to the backers......
well yeah, not following the project that close anymore. But COD:IW looks better than this mess.
Apart from the boring gameplay and lousy framerate, I didn't see anything wrong. :S
These are the two extremes in the discussion: The completely out-of-whack ideas of everything simulators and the bare-bones MVPs, which get actually delivered.
I see two common mistakes: One is too much focus on multiplayer. And I see the reasons why: MP is the hype since the advent of the Internet. Especially veterans from the 8/16 bit era like the idea a lot, because they dreamed of it back then. The second is procedural generation as a measure to remedy the lack of actual content.
There is no middle ground in this genre: A well-crafted content-rich space experience full of lore to explore with a small scale MP attached? No, for every new contender it has to be a "whole universe" full of commandos, nothing less. A basic design choice limiting possible gameplay loops, quest design and forcing the ever on-going re-balancing nightmare.
Star Citizen fell in the same trap, starting with a reasonable proposal and then turning it into yet another space MMO. And MVPs is what you get as a result.
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