Modes WOW CGs in open have got really toxic haven't they!

[Rafe Zetter]

Good gaming CMDR, I'm thinking of building an assassin cobra mkiii to take them our or even an eagle. Thoughts are...

silent running cobra/DScout
2 x class 2 torps - engineered with Reverberating Cascade
2 x class 1 cannons - engineered sturdy high yield shell
bi weave shielding, for escape

Tactics wise silent run outside CG station, pick you mark fire torps targeted at power plant. Shields should go down after 2 torps have landed, repeat. Hopefully power plant has been taken out and go in for the kill, if not then its up to the cannons to do their bit.

PS any news on crafting of torps in 2.4?

i think the above would make CGs a little more... interesting for both camps. If you could get a load of cmdrs to get a similar build identification of the pirates would be easier and of course rebuys would be negligible.

Just a suggestion from the adapt or die camp.

CMDR Valleys

In an ideal world this would be lovely - and would probably be about the only reason that would make me actually start playing; but I don't think there are enough commanders who care, or willing enough to actually show up to deal with the salt miners. The other MAJOR problem is the unreliability of the wing system, the P2P connections and with an instance limit of just 32 (iirc) it would be a small matter for the salt miners to overpop so not enough of the good guys can even join that servers fight.

The whole system is flawed from top to bottom and they know it.

FDev bought a cheap system, designed a bad delivery system and the players are paying the price.

 

[Achibot]

Even the much hated Goonswarm (or The Imperials as they are now known) from Eve Online stay and fight, these guys wouldn't even have the courage when the odds are evend out.

Combat logging in EVE is just a way to die slowly. That's not to say the Goons were ever known to risk expensive ships in (real) combat or be especially brave mind you, I would claim the opposite is true. An admittedly biased perspective. But I would agree that the playstyle they chose had real consequences, not like the 9-5 "pirates" in this game.

 

[WR3ND]

It can be a pretty decent game out here in the black. Wouldn't mind if Frontier continued enhancing the best parts of this game for those of us that actually care for it.

As I said before though, to each their own.

 

[kofeyh]

Back to the game after a long layoff and thought I would try the CG at Maia. Was getting a bit bored in Mobius so decided to ship my cheap Cobra over and see what all the fuss was about in open.

So you were bored. And decided to add some risk. Okay. With you so far.

Not making that mistake again!

What, was it not boring? Why was it a mistake to see how the game works when the things the CG warns about, might happen?

Not a rant..

I'm sensing a 'but'.

as I was well aware of the risks of open but not sure why anyone would want to run the gauntlet of engineered PVP builds who sit there taking out unarmed Cobras!

There it is. It's funny, but this is what the developer wants. Because this is what people want. Asymmetric fighting. Be it commanders massively outgunning AI, or other commanders. The consequences of being so unspeakably, obscenely overpowered, is that you can use that against other people.

Who knew?! Right? Probably worth remembering that little snippet when the developer tries to reset the balance and people whine about TTK for AI and their own survival. Anyhoo.

Lesson learned and thanks to Mobius for providing a safe haven!

Yay! Do you feel better for throwing, like the entirety of open, under the bus, to extol the virtues of Mobius? Good stuff. [up]

 

[NecoMachina]

Other times I play the pirate which is pretty fun and sometimes I go just for the pvp and trust me most of those "griefers" aren't griefers at all. They want a good, white knuckle fight. Problem is FD makes it so damned hard for that to happen.

That might be true for you, but not for all. If they were after a "white knuckle fight", what would give a better challenge - and unarmed explorer with no shields, or another PvP'er in a properly engineered ship? If they're not looking to grief and truly want a challenge (as many claim) then why are they even bothering with traders?

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Good thing this game isn't Eve.

Besides, there's really no rhyme or reason to "stay and fight." At best you're not accomplishing much of anything and you're not able to "vanquish evil doers" or whatever, not unless someone is going into it without a rebuy or something.

The long and the short of it is that it's for its own sake, not really anything else substantial, i.e., it's mostly worthless and meaningless in the game to me and many others, just a game universe continuity nuisance or a bit of a thrill now and then, depending how you look at it.

What I meant to say was the saltminers by and large have no altrustic reasons behind what they do, there's no "we will defend our beliefs / whatever, come what may". Which the goons always DID have. A meaning, beyond saltmining, which garnered them respect, even from thier enemies.

Saltminers just do it until the balance of power is no longer overwhelmingly in their favor, then they bug out.

I understand that you cannot vanquish such people, but if the tools were better to allow the good guy players to actually keep the saltminers under control during important CG's, that would be enough; the saltminers might even get to like it because supposedly "it's all about the PvP" and would have a ready supply at each CG.

CG's SHOULD have been a real hotbed of to-ing and fro-ing of different player factions based on whatever powers they had signed on with, instead of the place to go seal clubbing.

As for the "not really anything substantial" - well that remains to be seen, the idea that someone put forward about FDev using the CG's as a "straw poll" may yet happen for a whole bunch of things yet to be decided, in which case the deliberate sabotaging of them by the undesirables could be a real and serious issue down the line.

As has been said the saltminers don't actually care about the CG consequences to the BGS, so lose nothing, but could in theory have a terrible impact longterm.


edited...no idea what happened there.

 

[Ozram]

That might be true for you, but not for all. If they were after a "white knuckle fight", what would give a better challenge - and unarmed explorer with no shields, or another PvP'er in a properly engineered ship? If they're not looking to grief and truly want a challenge (as many claim) then why are they even bothering with traders?

Fair points. They do, in fact, have a massive and growing collection of serious pvp wingfights and duels (both internal and with other pvp groups) that are pretty easy to find online.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Back to the game after a long layoff and thought I would try the CG at Maia. Was getting a bit bored in Mobius so decided to ship my cheap Cobra over and see what all the fuss was about in open. Not making that mistake again! Not a rant, as I was well aware of the risks of open but not sure why anyone would want to run the gauntlet of engineered PVP builds who sit there taking out unarmed Cobras!

Lesson learned and thanks to Mobius for providing a safe haven!

Did a couple of runs with a mate yesterday, both of us in Pythons. Number of interdictions: zero. Quite disappointing, really. Guess it really depends on your neighbourhood.

Yes for all ships, including the aggressors. I see zero risk for the people doing the killing. No one seems to hunt them (before someone says go for it I do not have an engineered ship so it would be a bit futile) I tried a quick run in my A rated Python, including SCB, point defence and chaff before people jump to conclusions, and did not even make it out of Maia's no fly zone :0

What it is it for me to hunt people in anarchy zones who kill people in anarchy zones? Nothing. Its your job to keep your ship in one piece and you failed. Dont shift the blame on other people. A proper cobra shouldnt be griefed anyway, its way too fast and small for it.

 

[Ozram]

Did a couple of runs with a mate yesterday, both of us in Pythons. Number of interdictions: zero. Quite disappointing, really. Guess it really depends on your neighbourhood.

Instancing, time of day and in game location all make a huge difference in player experience. It also makes equipping a wake scanner useless for pvp as chances are if you chase someone to a different system they won't be instanced with you.

 

[NecoMachina]

Well said.
+1
You folks in Open who get blown up then complain taking notes here?
You play in Open don't complain...about anything with the game as is.
3 modes. Use them. Everyone's happy...right?

I disagree. If it was legit pirates, you'd be absolutely right. That would be a challenge and might be fun. But when it's griefers, it's not a challenge, it's just an all around terrible experience. Nobody likes being griefed, not even legit PvP'ers.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

repeat post, wasn't finished - ignore.

see below

 

[UmbraRex]

That's because everyone is different.

I like to compare PvP to spicy food. Some people can't tolerate spiciness at all. Some people like it hot, the hotter the better. Some people prefer having just a bit of a kick, and will season their meal to taste Some will try the hot stuff from time to time, then once again swear "never again." And some jerks think it's funny to loosen the cap on the shaker, so that the next person to use it will have their meal ruined. The trick to open world PvP is to ensure is to ensure that there is wide selection on the menu, and to make sure the jerks aren't in control of the kitchen.

"...you must spread some Reputation around before..." Zod dammit! Virtual +1

*tries to give +2 *fails

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Yay! Do you feel better for throwing, like the entirety of open, under the bus, to extol the virtues of Mobius? Good stuff. [up]

Show me all the threads where people said "yay open is amazeballs, I just recently started the game and I've been here for weeks and weeks, I've done several CG's and not a single person has seal clubbed me, people have been cool, the pirates have RP'd me - yes I had to gave them a bit of cargo *sadface* but they let me live *smileyface*; I wasn't once interdicted in my defenceless hauler carrying food by a wing of 3 meta enginered ships who killed me in 10 seconds flat and generally open is pretty sweet! *smily face*. "

Show me 1, just 1 of those created in the last... oh lets make it easy and say a year. I stipulate STARTED in Open, no seal clubbing, Pirates that demand cargo and then DON'T kill them anyway "for teh lulz", and no other form of agressive play that's considered by most as "griefing" with or without using gaming mechanics.

Because EACH of those experiences are enough to push a new player into a PG permanently.

If you play in open and don't like the reputation the saltminers are giving it, how about you step up and deal with THEM, instead of picking a fight with the victims?

Opens reputation is deserved because they do it, and apart from a select few, the rest of the "play nice" crowd clearly don't do anything about it or that "gauntlet" wouldn't even be there to run.

 

[yminale]

What I meant to say was the saltminers by and large have no altrustic reasons behind what they do, there's no "we will defend our beliefs / whatever, come what may". Which the goons always DID have. A meaning, beyond saltmining, which garnered them respect, even from thier enemies.

Saltminers just do it until the balance of power is no longer overwhelmingly in their favor, then they bug out.

I understand that you cannot vanquish such people, but if the tools were better to allow the good guy players to actually keep the saltminers under control during important CG's, that would be enough; the saltminers might even get to like it because supposedly "it's all about the PvP" and would have a ready supply at each CG.

That's the weird thing about this game. The fact that no one really organized against these Trolls. I guess you could say that Mobius is the ultimate F-U to these people.

 

[kofeyh]

If you play in open and don't like the reputation the saltminers are giving it, how about you step up and deal with THEM, instead of picking a fight with the victims?

I didn't pick a fight with a victim. I responded on a public forum to a person who wrote "gosh, isn't mobius is a good group? open is just toxic and everyone is bad" in long form.

I'm not sorry for responding to such a massive oversimplification.

Opens reputation is deserved because they do it, and those who "play nice" clearly don't do anything about it or that "gauntlet" wouldn't even be there to run.

So you want the entirety of open to spend it's time prosecuting crime because AI are incapable of doing so, due to being nerfed into the stone age, because AI that are a challenge, are inconvenient to the same people demanding I go do the AI's job. Ok, sure. I'll get right on that, boss.

Maybe if we had AI that could reliably prosecute crime, we'd be able to deal with quite a lot of illegal behaviour, by the game reliably policing it? Crazy idea, will never catch on.

 

[Ian Skippy]

That's the weird thing about this game. The fact that no one really organized against these Trolls. I guess you could say that Mobius is the ultimate F-U to these people.

Or rudimentary skills. The game simply is not providing massive advantages to 'griefers'. Anyone who has a basic understanding of the game becomes pretty much immune to being killed unless they want to stick around and risk their ship. Your claim is like saying "the ultimate F U to pick pockets is staying in bed!".

Well, no. Just move your phone and wallet out of your back pocket into the inside pocket of your jacket and you're golden. Dont take no amazing skills or talent. Just common sense and you're good to go.

 

[yminale]

Opens reputation is deserved because they do it, and apart from a select few, the rest of the "play nice" crowd clearly don't do anything about it or that "gauntlet" wouldn't even be there to run.

Open would be fine if there were either consequences or something to hold them in check. I think Fdev thought we could police ourselves but they didn't factor in the imbalance engineers caused or the high attrition rate of players. People leaving is probably why the block list is the way it is, why Fdev give Mobius so many server slots and why they are finally trying to do crime and punishment (badly).

 

[kofeyh]

That's the weird thing about this game. The fact that no one really organized against these Trolls. I guess you could say that Mobius is the ultimate F-U to these people.

Because if the game didn't treat commanders like spoilt children, it'd have AI that were genuinely up to the task; it doesn't need endless commanders to police the law, just an effective security force. Frontier meant well, but the endless nerfing of AI, because of commander demands, has impacted the ability to police crime. There is not the least bit of irony in the outcome.

Equally, frontier provide no tools to actually hunt down miscreants, nor is there any real value in doing this. Who is going to throw 20+ mil in rebuy up against a very competent commander who has like 1 mil in bounties? Apart from those who roll-play vigilantes, there's no actual ingame mechanics to drive this. Frontier in essence is okay with people endlessly ganking, but not okay with providing mechanics to support endlessly ganking the gankers.

Even so, that's not really the solution. Some AI? Should be terrifying, and able to (reliably) send us to the rebuy screen, if we run around blasting cops (or other commanders) like nobodies business. That this still hasn't been addressed, irks me no end.

It is, fundamentally, because people demand consequences for others, but refuse to be subjected to the same thing. Frontier has continued to entertain that nonsense for far too long. Cops need to be beefed up and genuinely a concern; with an escalation model introduced that causes the response to be linked to the degree of the crime.

 

[Synergized]

Or rudimentary skills. The game simply is not providing massive advantages to 'griefers'. Anyone who has a basic understanding of the game becomes pretty much immune to being killed unless they want to stick around and risk their ship. Your claim is like saying "the ultimate F U to pick pockets is staying in bed!".

Well, no. Just move your phone and wallet out of your back pocket into the inside pocket of your jacket and you're golden. Dont take no amazing skills or talent. Just common sense and you're good to go.

So much this. I'm a pirate-(oh wait, this is the forums. Apparently I'm a greifer here.)-And most people should be able to easily escape me. All you have to do is know how to do basic maneuvers and highwake. But no, that's much too complicated for most people. So they resort to combat logging, playing in PGs and Solo, etc.

 

[yminale]

Or rudimentary skills. The game simply is not providing massive advantages to 'griefers'. Anyone who has a basic understanding of the game.

High waking isn't as effective as it's use to be. I think the FSD recharge rates have been increased. Most gankers can overheat your ship in seconds or knock you out of reverberating cascade torpedos.