Alien archaeology and other mysteries: Breaking News, Theories and Tinfoil Hattery

[ExoForce]

The other, and really only other option that fits the facts currently is that there's another group of Guardians out there (possibly the Exiles) who have encountered the Thargoids in the past. This would explain why nothing in the Guardian History mentions aliens, yet the Thargoids clearly know the Guardians just by one bit of tech (even their automated facilities are programmed to recognise Guardian tech).

That option, exact wording (in Exile) cross my mind 45 mins ago. Rep!

 

[Vasious]

@Moribius

Which Guardian Entry says "we're remarkably similar to the Guardians on a DNA level and most likely share a common ancestor at the very least (that's literally in game lore)"
I cannot see that in Biology

Concerning the Rosetta stone, that is a lot different from having access to the a vast internet equivalent, which will be written audio and visual, to start to decode a alien language

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

@Moribius

Which Guardian Entry says "we're remarkably similar to the Guardians on a DNA level and most likely share a common ancestor at the very least (that's literally in game lore)"
I cannot see that in Biology

Concerning the Rosetta stone, that is a lot different from having access to the a vast internet equivalent, which will be written audio and visual, to start to decode a alien language

Biology 6: "6) We've barely scratched the surface with the Guardians. There is so much yet to discover. But this new data contains one tantalising detail that stands out: their biochemistry was very similar to our own. They had blood in the same fashion as us, and it fulfilled exactly the same role as it does for us. Beyond this, they share a similar genetic structure, with DNA and RNA their core building blocks. Although a full analysis has not yet been conducted, this might be evidence of a common ancestor, but also of a branching in their genetic history. This is an astounding discovery!"

 

[Vasious]

Biology 6: "6) We've barely scratched the surface with the Guardians. There is so much yet to discover. But this new data contains one tantalising detail that stands out: their biochemistry was very similar to our own. They had blood in the same fashion as us, and it fulfilled exactly the same role as it does for us. Beyond this, they share a similar genetic structure, with DNA and RNA their core building blocks. Although a full analysis has not yet been conducted, this might be evidence of a common ancestor, but also of a branching in their genetic history. This is an astounding discovery!"

Not sure how I missed that used Ctrl+F..... man I fail at computers

 

[relayer]

The main god in that one, is Anubis. Also know as the Guardian of the gate. He is usually portraied as a man with a jackal head.

This may be a tiny indication of contact between humans and Guardians, in prehistoric times.

Shades of Stargate SG-1 !

 

[relayer]

Playing Devil's advocate here (or a thesis review panel lol):

It may not have been the Guardian AI that evolved into the Thargoids, but there still must be some significant link in the past between Thargoids and the Guardians that goes so far as to make the Thargoids react very violently to their technology in a way they just never have to us.

Oh, I think there's link(s) but the Thargoid's reaction to the tech might be technological/medical (since they are hybrid forms). Imagine something similar to penicillin, which tries to block the division of bacteria - this might be a very bad thing to a biological entity that seems to have regenerative powers. Even if not encountered before, there would probably be a very harsh reaction, just as, instinctively, humans would spit out turpentine without knowing what it was, except "bad."

Your second point about the Guardian link with Humanity:
There's so many factors that guide biology over an evolutionary process.

Also, we've discovered organisms that use silicon in place of carbon and can convert chemical into energy by chemosynthesis on our own planet (hydrothermal vents). So there's no reason life must evolve in a carbon-based form.

It's simply that we can understand each other. Ram Tah fairly easily translated the Guardian data without any frame of reference.

They use morse code

I am still questioning this line of thinking. Despite us being very similar to ancient Egyptians in body, mind, social structures etc., until the early 1800s with the discovery & translation of the Rosetta Stone we could not translate Egyptian hieroglyphs. It seems too pat that this data was translated so quickly, and only by one man, and not a committee like I would suspect, with the Feds, the Empire and the Alliance all demanding the original messages to decode themselves.

And I STILL do not think Morse code (Federation Blink Code), which sticks out like a sore thumb, is from Thargoids.

Same with the Thargoid stuff, it's all things we can understand. <snip>

I think this is a red herring. DB keeps saying, "the Thargoids are truly alien." I think it's much more than having four hearts...

 

[relayer]

But to be more specific about some things; Before we discovered the Rosetta Stone, we were unable to translate ancient Egyptian accurately

grrr, ninja'd

 

[KRONFROMGALVATRON]

Ok, I think this needs a considered response and I'm not 100% sure where to pitch this so please forgive me (you and anyone else reading) if this slips either into partronisingly simple or way too esoteric.

So the first thing to cover is the word 'Theory'. I might be wrong here, but you seem to be using it as though it means 'idea'. That's not what 'Theory' means in 'Theory of evolution' or similar scientific theories.

The theory of evolution is based on a incredibly huge amount of evidence. As a whole it's not really in any credible doubt. Most of the doubt cast on it is just misconceptions and deliberate misportrayals of the situation. I'm saying this whole bit specifically because the 'it's just a theory' thing is one of those misconceptions / misportrayals that gets spread around far too much.

So, consider the following:
- every vertebrate embryo on Earth has the same form at early stages of development (human embryos have tails until about 7 weeks.)
- all vertebrates on Earth share the same basic body structure. That structure goes back to before vertebrate animals emerged from the sea. This is more than 400 million years ago. (snakes differ in that they have no arms and legs, but the genes responsible have been identified, and its origin traced to approx 150 million years ago.)

Those are just basic structural points.

There's then cellular comparisons, where the commonalities between vertebrates and other animals become apparent, then plants, fungi and so on further and further back until things reach the point of the origin of Eukaryotes - cells which have internal structures enclosed by their own membranes (cell nuclei, mitochondria, etc.) - from Prokaroytes - simple single cells that don't have internal memebrane-enclosed structures. Under the Eukaryotic line there are all animals, all plants, fungi, and various other groups of organisms. Under the Prokaryotic line there are Bacteria and Archaea.

The origins of Eukaryotes is traced to roughly 2 Billion years ago.

Then there's all the evidence from genetic analysis both from cell nuclei and from Mitochondria.

So given that our inheritance can be traced back to basic single celled organisms from many Billions of years ago, in real life we know fine well we're not the descendants of an alien race.

As a biologist I approve this message. And if this sort of thing interests you, check out a book called The Vital Question by Nick Lane. It's on Bill Gates list of favorite books if that tells you anything. He's no dummy.

Now he question is whether FDev will rewrite human history in a game. My bet is no, they tend to lean on the science side of sci-fi where possible.

Edit - Just read more closely and was reminded about the in game lore stating we likely share a common ancestor with the guardians. So that may be the end of speculating on that issue, apparently its meant to be taken at face value. As for the thargoids, it seems unlikely we share biology with them at all, which would mean the Guardians don't either if we share a common ancestor (pretty sure, I'm a cell biologist not a phylogeneticist). Perhaps the use of Morse for now is just not explained in the lore but was a practical choice of the developers to give us a code to crack, in the early days before the player base showed itself to be pretty adept at code cracking.

 

[Ernest T Bass]

More in Col 173 Sector LJ-F C12-0.

On A 4 C I found a site laid out the same as the Alshat a 6 b discovery. I found it by following leads given at a listening post in Canonn space. There seems to be nothing special about it.

https://imgur.com/a/EsiaT

 

[G_Bison]

More in Col 173 Sector LJ-F C12-0.

On A 4 C I found a site laid out the same as the Alshat a 6 b discovery. I found it by following leads given at a listening post in Canonn space. There seems to be nothing special about it.

[/url]

Also Professor Melville's ship, a Megaship called The Cete and Brain Trees are also in that system!!! Were they any Com Logs there!?!!

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

My theory, that there's a racial link between Thargoids and Guardians, makes sense of the almost instinctual reaction they show. It's like the reaction a Cat has to anything vaguely snake-shaped, it's hard-coded in ancient DNA because the two were ancient enemies. And, we only know of one enemy the Guardians had - the AI/Linked Guardians.

The issue with this theory that Guardians and Humans are carbon-based, whereas Thargoids are ammonia-based - the difference is so fundamental, that they cannot share the same origin.

 

[LordZoltan]

As a biologist I approve this message. And if this sort of thing interests you, check out a book called The Vital Question by Nick Lane. It's on Bill Gates list of favorite books if that tells you anything. He's no dummy.

Now he question is whether FDev will rewrite human history in a game. My bet is no, they tend to lean on the science side of sci-fi where possible.

Edit - Just read more closely and was reminded about the in game lore stating we likely share a common ancestor with the guardians. So that may be the end of speculating on that issue, apparently its meant to be taken at face value. As for the thargoids, it seems unlikely we share biology with them at all, which would mean the Guardians don't either if we share a common ancestor (pretty sure, I'm a cell biologist not a phylogeneticist). Perhaps the use of Morse for now is just not explained in the lore but was a practical choice of the developers to give us a code to crack, in the early days before the player base showed itself to be pretty adept at code cracking.

If carbon-based DNA/RNA-based life evolved once in the galaxy - i.e. on Earth - then the chances of it evolving elsewhere are instantly higher, surely - especially in a galaxy with lots of stars all with a similar make-up.

That doesn't mean a common ancestor, it could merely mean a common evolution story over a similar timeframe from similar basic building blocks.

So I think Ram Tah is getting overexcited.

Given that Guardians pre-date humans by some time, and the fossil record on Earth allows us to trace all life back to a common starting point which is Earth-bound, there's no real way that I can see which allows us both to share a common ancestor - unless we're talking *another* spacefaring species which went zipping around the galaxy depositing its bacteria or something on our respective planets as they went exploring.

 

[Jmanis]

So, a bit of a crosspost, but using the same technique used for finding the barnacle forest, I just marked 13 new barnacles in a Witch Head Nebula system where a barnacle had already been found, in the hope of finding a new forest somewhere in non-Pleiades nebulae.

I'm planning to extend this effort to some of the systems with Thargoid Structures in them, and also to the California Nebula. If anyone has systems of interest they'd like looked at, let me know.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

As a biologist I approve this message. And if this sort of thing interests you, check out a book called The Vital Question by Nick Lane. It's on Bill Gates list of favorite books if that tells you anything. He's no dummy.

Now he question is whether FDev will rewrite human history in a game. My bet is no, they tend to lean on the science side of sci-fi where possible.

Edit - Just read more closely and was reminded about the in game lore stating we likely share a common ancestor with the guardians. So that may be the end of speculating on that issue, apparently its meant to be taken at face value. As for the thargoids, it seems unlikely we share biology with them at all, which would mean the Guardians don't either if we share a common ancestor (pretty sure, I'm a cell biologist not a phylogeneticist). Perhaps the use of Morse for now is just not explained in the lore but was a practical choice of the developers to give us a code to crack, in the early days before the player base showed itself to be pretty adept at code cracking.

I was reserving judgement, but I think the description of the Thargoid tissue sample provides a big hint: "A sample of bio-mechanical tissue taken from a Thargoid Interceptor-class vessel. This sample has been taken from a variant known as a Cyclops and contains both biological and mechanical elements"; to me this implies the Thargoids are the result of the Guardian AI taking over an available species, resulting in the Thargoids.
Of course this is based on limited evidence, but since Ram Tah seems to be the only in-game source (highly suspicious in itself!) of Thargoid-related lore, and he's gone strangely quiet, then it's my working hypothesis for now. It might explain why the goids react negatively to Guardian Relics, why they are so technologically advanced, and why their tech is organically based.

In response to someone's previous argument, I don't think the fact that humans and guardians are/were both symetrical and bipedal is evidence for common source. Most species are symmetrical, bipedality makes for efficient movement while giving a raised eyeline for evolutionary advantageous sensing of danger or prey. I suspect parallel evolution applied, with some common evolutionary selection parameters. And biology #6 says only the two species "shared a similar genetic structure, both having RNA and DNA building blocks", and "a full analysis has not yet been conducted". Apart from the fact that this means Ram Tah should get his research funding cut as he is clearly incompetent (it should have been the first thing in the analysis) it could be explained by parallel evolution or panspermia. Ben Miller's book The Aliens are Coming! has an interesting discussion on the evolution of cell structure and applicable chemical processes, and is a good read.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

If carbon-based DNA/RNA-based life evolved once in the galaxy - i.e. on Earth - then the chances of it evolving elsewhere are instantly higher, surely - especially in a galaxy with lots of stars all with a similar make-up.

That doesn't mean a common ancestor, it could merely mean a common evolution story over a similar timeframe from similar basic building blocks.

So I think Ram Tah is getting overexcited.

Given that Guardians pre-date humans by some time, and the fossil record on Earth allows us to trace all life back to a common starting point which is Earth-bound, there's no real way that I can see which allows us both to share a common ancestor - unless we're talking *another* spacefaring species which went zipping around the galaxy depositing its bacteria or something on our respective planets as they went exploring.

I object to being regarded as the result of an alien sneeze! although as a hypothesis it might explain some politicians!

 

[LordZoltan]

@Jorki Great thoughts above, out of rep. And re the sneeze-produced politicians: I think you've just stumbled on all the evidence we need!

@Moribus and anyone else who thinks similarly: I'm not rubbishing everything you're saying: there's certainly significant hints here at a bit of a tangled web involving the Guardians, Thargs, Us and possibly more besides. That there are so many explanations is both exciting and troubling in equal measure; and I'm certainly enjoying batting ideas to and fro - whether we ever get a chance to find out for sure is another story. Keep buying FD store stuff and give the folks there a chance to tell that story I guess

 

[Xenia_K]

@Jorki Great thoughts above, out of rep. And re the sneeze-produced politicians: I think you've just stumbled on all the evidence we need!

@Moribus and anyone else who thinks similarly: I'm not rubbishing everything you're saying: there's certainly significant hints here at a bit of a tangled web involving the Guardians, Thargs, Us and possibly more besides. That there are so many explanations is both exciting and troubling in equal measure; and I'm certainly enjoying batting ideas to and fro - whether we ever get a chance to find out for sure is another story. Keep buying FD store stuff and give the folks there a chance to tell that story I guess

furthermore the Bio6 data only mention "...possibly a common ancestor....", they do not specify how far back in evolutionary history/developement.
The theory of space-faring bacteria (as hideaways in/on meteorites), and by this live-spreading in our galaxy, has been developed some 1300 years ago already !

 

[Han_Zen]

Regarding Guardians, Thargoids and human evolution.

Please remember that life is very common in the ED galaxy. Every Earth like, water world, Ammonia world and a bunch of gas giants contain life. Even on airless worlds, we find life. Life pops up everywhere and everywhere it's relatively similar.

Carbon/DNA based life seem to be an automatic consequence of specific environments. We can travel anywhere in the galaxy, find wildlife and eat it. We are compatible with each other on a 'law of nature' level.

The only thing that sets Guardians, Thargoids and humans(and the ex inhabitants of Achenar 6D) apart, is the high level of sentience.

We have colonized hundreds of Earth likes in the bubble and only one of them have contained a race that we define as sentient.

Sentience is rare, life is abundant.

 

[LordZoltan]

Regarding Guardians, Thargoids and human evolution.

Please remember that life is very common in the ED galaxy. Every Earth like, water world, Ammonia world and a bunch of gas giants contain life. Even on airless worlds, we find life. Life pops up everywhere and everywhere it's relatively similar.

Carbon/DNA based life seem to be an automatic consequence of specific environments. We can travel anywhere in the galaxy, find wildlife and eat it. We are compatible with each other on a 'law of nature' level.

The only thing that sets Guardians, Thargoids and humans(and the ex inhabitants of Achenar 6D) apart, is the high level of sentience.

We have colonized hundreds of Earth likes in the bubble and only one of them have contained a race that we define as sentient.

Sentience is rare, life is abundant.

Well put, as always - wholeheartedly agree

 

[Louis Calvert]

As a biologist I approve this message. And if this sort of thing interests you, check out a book called The Vital Question by Nick Lane. It's on Bill Gates list of favorite books if that tells you anything. He's no dummy.

Now he question is whether FDev will rewrite human history in a game. My bet is no, they tend to lean on the science side of sci-fi where possible.

Edit - Just read more closely and was reminded about the in game lore stating we likely share a common ancestor with the guardians. So that may be the end of speculating on that issue, apparently its meant to be taken at face value. As for the thargoids, it seems unlikely we share biology with them at all, which would mean the Guardians don't either if we share a common ancestor (pretty sure, I'm a cell biologist not a phylogeneticist). Perhaps the use of Morse for now is just not explained in the lore but was a practical choice of the developers to give us a code to crack, in the early days before the player base showed itself to be pretty adept at code cracking.

Yep I agree, if you read my original post you'll see I say that I think the Thargoids might have evolved from the Guardian AI.

I didn't say there was a biological link, in fact I said in my next post that since (as far as we know) they are ammonia based life that actually precludes a biological link.