"Beyond" free for Horizon owners - LEP musings

[Riverside]

Seem like a good idea or not is kind of besides the point. People are weird emotional creatures something.

Regardless of some people seeming to use the LEP as an opportunity to give more money to Frontier, it was still a purchase in good faith as having actual value, not for example spending 3 times as much for Horizons and getting the same thing as everyone else who just bought Horizons at the time who already owned the base game.

But yes, I'm assuming there will be further pay for game content that LEP holders will get included in the higher price they already paid for it.

I was just thrashing around with the words to avoid saying 'good investment'
I didn't make an investment, I naively bought a product thinking it would be delivered in a reasonable timescale.

And so I just sigh, and patiently wait for that 'investment' to pay off.

 

[CMDR Terrorfirma]

... I'm assuming there will be further pay for game content that LEP holders will get included in the higher price they already paid for it.

THAT RIGHT THERE is the the problem... the ASSUMING... yes, I would also guess that IF fdev chooses to roll out an upgrade cost for some new thing in the future that they would have to honor the lifetime pass and give that for free to LTP owners. but they have not really told us what they plan to do and kinda vaguely promised that the "season pass" model is going away. So... people who took that as a promise of free upgrades are going to complain about future costs as just a renaming or relabeling of the Season pass costs.

Fdev just needs to tell us what the @#$@# is going on with upgrades and costs and how it relates to season passes and lifetime passes. that is all we are saying

 

[Cageman]

As a horizons LEP, I am currently classified as 'uneasy'. I never expected my investment to reap massive dividends. Based on the widely accepted premise at the time of X season approximately 1 per year, it was a break even proposition, simply saving me the buying decision, but it currently is looking like a nett loss.

IIRC, FD accounts realised about 30 quid per financial year, so from their financial stand point I will be paying about 90 quid just for horizons, with still no indication of any return for my increased contribution.
There may or may not end up being any benefit to me, maybe some indication would have been nice

Jesus christ... how many hours have you played and had fun, and how much did you pay for it? Then compare that to movie tickets...

 

[WR3ND]

Jesus christ... how many hours have you played and had fun, and how much did you pay for it? Then compare that to movie tickets...

Settle down. Also, there's a reason I very rarely go to the movies... Seriously, like once every few years or so.

I paid something like $15 for Minecraft several years ago, and have probably played it just as much if not more than Elite: Dangerous over the years.

I hope to play Elite: Dangerous for many years to come too.

Anyway, point being, there's nothing wrong with people getting what they actually paid for on the tin.

 

[Cageman]

Those who paid £120 for LTP are going to be waiting a looong time to break even

Wait... what? Break even... is that a thing now with computer games?

What do you mean?

 

[Stewart_]

I think the point is that we don't know, and would like to be reassured. The company seems to be in rude health, I'm not concerned they will go bust or do a runner, but I am concerned that from the title 'and Beyond', it appears right now that there will be no further development that will make buying the LEP seem like a good idea.

Anything is speculation. But down to business basics: frontier cannot go on giving away content. They will at some point have to charge for DLC. I'm guessing that is probably after 3304. A couple of people are speculating / knowledge that 3304 may indeed have paid content over the free stuff.

 

[WR3ND]

Wait... what? Break even... is that a thing now with computer games?

What do you mean?

The LEP is worth roughly 3 full sized expansions/seasons/games in price value.

Consider that so far I've spent about 240 USD for the same content others have spent 120 USD for and at the same times after the release of the game – I'm not a backer or anything like that and don't have any extra perks.

Expecting more for having spent more is not unreasonable, it's actually what was written on the tin. Now I'm just waiting for it to be delivered. Thankfully I'm a rather patient person and enjoy the content that has already been delivered.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Jesus christ... how many hours have you played and had fun, and how much did you pay for it? Then compare that to movie tickets...

Let me tell you a story about OAKLEY sunglasses. They had this thing - if you managed to break a set within a certain time frame - way longer than a normal warrenty, they replaced them FREE OF CHARGE and used this as thier USP (Unique Selling Point), and reason why they cost 3x a similar pair of glasses cost. I have to wear sunglasses a LOT as I'm photophobic, and break them often enough that I normally have several pairs on the go, and at least 2 in the car or it gets dangerous to drive, I'm that sensitive to light.

Anyway, I buy a set of Oakleys knowing if I break or damage them I'll get a replacement - as they were more expensive I kept them for driving only as they were polarised. Inevitably I broke them. I contacted Oakley to find out how I went about the return and where and got the reply "sorry we no longer do that" it was becoming too costly to offer that service. Turns out that that service had stopped before I had even bought the pair despite the salesman in the OAKLEY CONCESSION where I bought them telling me otherwise.

Yes I tried to argue the point but they said "sorry nothing we can do" and the sales person at the concession had moved on - so I was out £120 for a set of glasses that although nice were not significantly better than buying 6 pairs of cheaper £20 sunglasses.

A selling point is a selling point, and regardless of use after the fact, if you pay for something on the basis of a particular benefit to you, and that benefit changes after that fact and, moreover, when people pay more than the guy sitting next to them for the same thing, because they were given a line that turns out to be not quite what they were led to beleive, then people have a right to feel as though they paid over the odds to a greater or lesser extent.

This is so true infact that in retail you should now always ask staff "is there a sale soon", because of you are considering a high ticket value item and you are told "no there is no sale soon" and it turns out that there IS a sale, within a month I think, you can go back to the company and request they give you a refund of the difference in ticket price between what you paid as full retail and the sale price as you made a specific request regarding any upcoming sales information and were misled.

 

[Ra'Kaan]

Frontier Expo 2017 Livestream at 3hr 32min 15sec Ed Lewis -

"...I think it's worth mentioning to you here as well, and everybody at home, that everything that we've talked about in today's presentation will be coming to all Elite Dangerous Horizons players for...well, absolutely FREE!"

https://youtu.be/T5c-uTYWrZ0

 

[WR3ND]

Frontier Expo 2017 Livestream at 3hr 32min 15sec Ed Lewis -

"...I think it's worth mentioning to you here as well, and everybody at home, that everything that we've talked about in today's presentation will be coming to all Elite Dangerous Horizons players for...well, absolutely FREE!"

https://youtu.be/T5c-uTYWrZ0

I'm not sure how this is relevant exactly. I'm actually glad that they're refining the game and improving it for everyone with Horizons for free with the Beyond Horizons content. This still doesn't address the extra content that LEP owners already paid for.

I'm hoping that after the Beyond Horizons content year is done they'll return to a game expansion DLC model for future content. As others have mentioned, for things like "space legs," atmospheric worlds, and so on.

 

[Ra'Kaan]

@WR3ND

It's relevent because I saw posts asking where the info came from and I didn't know myself.

I missed it on my first watch of the stream, but heard it the second time through =))

 

[WR3ND]

@WR3ND

It's relevent because I saw posts asking where the info came from and I didn't know myself.

I missed it on my first watch of the stream, but heard it the second time through =))

Ah, fair enough then.

Cheers.

 

[racer1]

Let me tell you a story about OAKLEY sunglasses. They had this thing - if you managed to break a set within a certain time frame - way longer than a normal warrenty, they replaced them FREE OF CHARGE and used this as thier USP (Unique Selling Point), and reason why they cost 3x a similar pair of glasses cost. I have to wear sunglasses a LOT as I'm photophobic, and break them often enough that I normally have several pairs on the go, and at least 2 in the car or it gets dangerous to drive, I'm that sensitive to light.

Anyway, I buy a set of Oakleys knowing if I break or damage them I'll get a replacement - as they were more expensive I kept them for driving only as they were polarised. Inevitably I broke them. I contacted Oakley to find out how I went about the return and where and got the reply "sorry we no longer do that" it was becoming too costly to offer that service. Turns out that that service had stopped before I had even bought the pair despite the salesman in the OAKLEY CONCESSION where I bought them telling me otherwise.

Yes I tried to argue the point but they said "sorry nothing we can do" and the sales person at the concession had moved on - so I was out £120 for a set of glasses that although nice were not significantly better than buying 6 pairs of cheaper £20 sunglasses.

A selling point is a selling point, and regardless of use after the fact, if you pay for something on the basis of a particular benefit to you, and that benefit changes after that fact and, moreover, when people pay more than the guy sitting next to them for the same thing, because they were given a line that turns out to be not quite what they were led to beleive, then people have a right to feel as though they paid over the odds to a greater or lesser extent.

This is so true infact that in retail you should now always ask staff "is there a sale soon", because of you are considering a high ticket value item and you are told "no there is no sale soon" and it turns out that there IS a sale, within a month I think, you can go back to the company and request they give you a refund of the difference in ticket price between what you paid as full retail and the sale price as you made a specific request regarding any upcoming sales information and were misled.

Please can you show me where FD promised what you would get for your LEP?

 

[GraXXoR]

I think it's the right way to go ; the yearly season model just does dwindle the player base. Still I have a bitter taste i my mouth when I think of the 165€ I cashed in for the LEP, when I could have got Horizons and be good until Q4 2018 - at the very least. When I bought LEP in August 2015, the (10y)plan was one extension per year, and even then the added-value of the LEP was a gamble : it would be covered after about three extensions/seasons. Now we know that Horizons lasts for three years... FDev should really seriously consider some perks, or partial refunds by now.

The 10 year plan is a myth propagated and perpetuated on these forums and reddit. It was suggested that the game, development and servers would be maintained for ten years. that's all... there was clearly no grand plan.

Then FDEV's priorities shifted away from ED due to two new franchises which are bound to bring in more money than the poor after-release sales of ED (most interested people bought into the KS, α, pβ, β, LEP) meaning that there is very little *business* reason for them to honour former customers beyond the minimum required by law. Their shareholders and bottom line are glad this is happening.

What could they possibly give us that wouldn't further impact FDEV financially?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Please can you show me where FD promised what you would get for your LEP?

The promise is simply all future paid for expansions would be free. Since Beyond is not paid for, then its not part of the deal, excepting that we have Horizons as part of the LEP anyway.

 

[krylite]

I missed the LEP phase and the KS. Still I'd think the LEP owners should get some additional loyalty perk by now, like being able to create or name their own system and stations , system factions, and system colonization lore. Something along those lines.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

No no no.... Beyond will have paid for content, they just didnt show that today.

Interesting conclusion I hope you are right but it's not the vibe I got

 

[Valethar]

Yes that's quite true. Thanks for helping me sort my feelings I'll rant again in 2019 !

Pencil you in for the same date two years hence?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Wait... what? Break even... is that a thing now with computer games?

What do you mean?

I already covered this. Look I am not salty about hoizons getting a 3rd year extension. I AM worried about what it means for long term development.

My statement was not rocket science to figure out tho. Horizons dlc was intimated at being a year, it is now going g to be 3 years but for that some paid £30 and some paid £120. It's fab that many are patient to wait and still not worried about their £120. (And despite how it may seem I am not mad either) I am worried FD next step may be refunds on the LTP . IF that happens imo it will be very worrying.... But I CAN see why some may want a refund. Take fanboy hat off a sec (no insult intended i am one too) and imagine if EA pulled this length without dlc for season pass users with a bf game and what response would be

 

[two quiet suns]

But this is pure speculation so whats the point? The is no evidence at all to support anything you are saying.