"Beyond" free for Horizon owners - LEP musings

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Just want to say I really dislike comments like this.

At the end of the day money was paid, people are perfectly free and justified in feeling entitled to something.

While it may be a none issue for you or me, if other folk feel misled by how it was implied it would pan out when Frontier were asking for £120 at LEP purchase time, well I can understand that. And as such people should be free to express that without feeling they are somehow at fault here or being likened to your children.

Agreed, and most people are not asking for a refund, his comment was incredibly rude. Just a couple of sentences from the Devs regarding LTP owners, that is all most of us want. This is not being an entitled child imo. And again for the hard of reading ..... Imo refunds of the LTP would be a v bad thing and is not something I want to see happen.

I don't even mind that the next year is free but that means horizons would have lasted 3 years ... For something which however you cut it was strongly intimated would last 12 months.

 

[babelfisch]

I bought the game on release so I can't offer much insight into the beta package but The difference in cost between the Horizons season and the LEP is ostensibly to cover product not yet delivered. Hence the comparison to SC.

For clarity I'm not looking for a refund, I just want to know what the plan is. This is a reasonable request.

The lifetime of the game isn't over yet. The plan is to release more expansions. They want to release space legs and atmospheric planets, they just said so a few weeks ago.

 

[babelfisch]

Just want to say I really dislike comments like this.

At the end of the day money was paid, people are perfectly free and justified in feeling entitled to something.

While it may be a none issue for you or me, if other folk feel misled by how it was implied it would pan out when Frontier were asking for £120 at LEP purchase time, well I can understand that. And as such people should be free to express that without feeling they are somehow at fault here or being likened to your children.

It was and is nothing like that. The whole argument is made up. First, they never said they are going to release an update every year. Second there will be more paid updates in the lifetime of the game. This entire thread is nonsense.

 

[two quiet suns]

The assumptions and conjecture of this thread are almost as ridiculous as the droves of cmdrs who post on this forum but claim not to have played the game in a year.

 

[babelfisch]

Poor analogy. This isn't about jealousy though or anything, at least for me. I'm glad that Beyond Horizons is coming at no extra charge for Horizons owners. This is about expectations of delivery of what we were actually expecting at the point of sale, not more than that.

I suppose in this analogy, it would actually be more apt to call Frontier the field works, though of course neither is very fitting.

Since the lifetime of the game is not over yet there is no reason to be disappointed (yet). There is currently no way you can know if buying the LEP was a good deal or not and it was always like that.

 

[lenna]

It was and is nothing like that. The whole argument is made up. First, they never said they are going to release an update every year. Second there will be more paid updates in the lifetime of the game. This entire thread is nonsense.

WRT point 1 - Fair and reasonably true
WRT point 2 - A fair assumption but besides the point

As for this entire thread being nonsense, I disagree - the OP does perhaps raise a valid concern. It may not be shared by all LEP owners but you can be sure that people are at least watching the space.

As an LEP owner though, I disagree with the general level of "sense of entitlement" wrt information over the long term development of ED. While we did pay somewhat more for the LEP than those that just bought into Horizons, I do not believe there is any legitimate reason to express concern at this point. FD does not need to do anything specific at this point IMO, but they do need to carefully consider how their announcements and activities might be perceived by the their diverse customer base.

 

[babelfisch]

WRT point 1 - Fair and reasonably true
WRT point 2 - A fair assumption but besides the point

As for this entire thread being nonsense, I disagree - the OP does perhaps raise a valid concern. It may not be shared by all LEP owners but you can be sure that people are at least watching the space.

As an LEP owner though, I disagree with the general level of "sense of entitlement" wrt information over the long term development of ED. While we did pay somewhat more for the LEP than those that just bought into Horizons, I do not believe there is any legitimate reason to express concern at this point. FD does not need to do anything specific at this point IMO, but they do need to carefully consider how their announcements and activities might be perceived by the their diverse customer base.

I don't think that the general idea of "I'd still like to get some paid updates for free because I own the LEP" is nonsense, I think people sharpening their pitchforks because the showed content will be free is nonsense. If it turns out that there will never be a paid update in the lifetime of the product, yes, people will have every right to complain. Currently they don't.

 

[SAB380]

The DDF needs to use their god like powers to inform TheBraben that Frontier can’t change their expansion strategy like this.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to start another game in Ironman mode.

 

[Goose4291]

I don't think that the general idea of "I'd still like to get some paid updates for free because I own the LEP" is nonsense, I think people sharpening their pitchforks because the showed content will be free is nonsense. If it turns out that there will never be a paid update in the lifetime of the product, yes, people will have every right to complain. Currently they don't.

That's the thing Babel, I'm not seeing LEP folk sharpening pitchforks over this.

What I am seeing is the usual white-knight rushing to FDevs defence against someone who is quite rightly in my mind asking what they're actually getting for an LEP if the whole next year (which we all know with FDevs delays will be more like 2 years) worth of content is free with Horizons, which is made worse by people touting the 'ten year plan' misquote again.

 

[szopin]

Frontier Expo 2017 Livestream at 3hr 32min 15sec Ed Lewis -

"...I think it's worth mentioning to you here as well, and everybody at home, that everything that we've talked about in today's presentation will be coming to all Elite Dangerous Horizons players for...well, absolutely FREE!"

https://youtu.be/T5c-uTYWrZ0

Just wanted to dig this up, as the wording seems to be misrepresented by many as 'the whole 2018 season/the whole beyond will be free', only what they talked about is confirmed free, so the QoL mostly. And it does seem to leave a lot of room for paid content. If people have been working on 3.0 and 4.0 a year ago (iirc that's what they stated at some point) I actually expect to see bigger things, maybe they just didn't want to commit to a date as they did with horizons and will roll it out when fully done/finished instead of rushing to meet their initial plan for horizons which as a season was released year after launch with plans of: coming out holidays 2015 and going into 2016 (I think the expectation of seasons being one year was coming from this, when the LEP was sold for 180$ that was all there was and everyone assumed they will continue with 4 quarterly .x updates per year as they did with base game and had 4 updates planned for horizons)

 

[babelfisch]

That's the thing Babel, I'm not seeing LEP folk sharpening pitchforks over this.

What I am seeing is the usual white-knight rushing to FDevs defence against someone who is quite rightly in my mind asking what they're actually getting for an LEP if the whole next year (which we all know with FDevs delays will be more like 2 years) worth of content is free with Horizons, which is made worse by people touting the 'ten year plan' misquote again.

There is nothing wrong with people asking if we get something next year. Some people are doing this. But others are saying that we will never get a paid update again. That's simply not a reasonable conclusion.

 

[Arindor]

Saying that all content for Q4 2018 will be free for Horizons owners may just increase revenue with people buying it now (I'm even thinking of getting it on PS4 because of this). After 2018 development will be a whole new ball game where LEP owners may gain benefit. That's if ED doesn't draw to a close or development slow down after then. Interesting times.

 

[VR Golgot]

Can you link to where it says all this stuff is gonna be free?

I haven't seen any official posts stating that.

Here y'go, free for Horizons owners:

'Everything that we've talked about in today's presentation will be coming to all Elite Dangerous Horizons players for absolutely free.'

---

It seems pretty clear that the business model is to get as many players to adopt Horizons as possible, while improving the base offering and hopefully gaining continued base sales across the 3 platforms. Cosmetics seem to be additional, not the central earner.

---

As an LEP holder I do have concerns about seeing a 'return' on my investment in terms of gameplay additions. And it also burns to wait past Q4 2018 to get an inkling of the shiny they have in mind. But it was always a punt. (Essentially I will kick up a fuss long term if they don't at least shoot for the stars, but for now I'll take a slowly improving game )

On the plus side:

• The company seems stable, and the game's still live.
• The talk is still of continued dev & major additions.
• The franchise is expected to last at least another 5 years as an entity, if not nailed on a developing one. There's a bit of time for miracles to happen...

My big question is, how do they jump start from this form of rolling dev, to the type of prolonged upfront dev required to get Atmospherics and/or Legs off the ground. It feels like it's all a bit beyond them right now. Legs in particular.

 

[GraXXoR]

Ok there will "Beyond" free. I hope that one day we will go beyond the Horizons, because by definition, the Horizon is unattainable

Of course it's attainable. You just have to climb over the 200m ice wall at the edge.

 

[wenkman]

FD said in the stream and in a post in the news-section, that "all that was mentioned at FX17 will be free for horizons owners."

if phrased exactly that way i read into it:
-> there will be more content, maybe even in 2018, which we did not mention on stage. this content will be 3.0-3.4 and will need to be bought separately.

so even 2.0-2.4 brought changes to the base game.

what if, *IF*, the Q1 release will improve many things and enhance the narrative for the base game and horizons, but also will bring a new DLC.
(my bet is on atmospherics, the changes to planet generation and ice worlds could be by-products of this)

 

[GraXXoR]

Here y'go, free for Horizons owners:

'Everything that we've talked about in today's presentation will be coming to all Elite Dangerous Horizons players for absolutely free.'

---

It seems pretty clear that the business model is to get as many players to adopt Horizons as possible, while improving the base offering and hopefully gaining continued base sales across the 3 platforms. Cosmetics seem to be additional, not the central earner.

---

As an LEP holder I do have concerns about seeing a 'return' on my investment in terms of gameplay additions. And it also burns to wait past Q4 2018 to get an inkling of the shiny they have in mind. But it was always a punt. (Essentially I will kick up a fuss long term if they don't at least shoot for the stars, but for now I'll take a slowly improving game )

On the plus side:

• The company seems stable, and the game's still live.
• The talk is still of continued dev & major additions.
• The franchise is expected to last at least another 5 years as an entity, if not nailed on a developing one. There's a bit of time for miracles to happen...

My big question is, how do they jump start from this form of rolling dev, to the type of prolonged upfront dev required to get Atmospherics and/or Legs off the ground. It feels like it's all a bit beyond them right now. Legs in particular.

Yes, knowing FDEV's performance so far, Q4 2018 means 2019 realistically. Imagine that... The game came out in 2014 and the second expansion is only finished in 2019... I like this game but waiting seems to be baked into its DNA, from development to super cruise.

 

[Kayweg]

I consider "2.4 and beyond" a bunkershot to try and save par,, and a necessary one.
Future paid-for content will depend on many of season 2 features.
Atmospheric planets, ambulation, npc multicrew, more SLF, etc, etc. None of that can be aimed at base game owners without them buying Horizons first.
Without this year of consolidation, any future investment into new "price tagged" content could prove non-viable.
If the season model had met expectations, they wouldn't have dropped it, i think that's important to keep in mind.
They are simply trying to make season 2 more attractive now for non horizon owners, in order to have a big enough user base for future content to sell to.
And i think they're doing the right thing.
My 0.02$

 

[Miklos Atreides]

For me the reason for the long living Horizons extension is a result of underestimating of putting the great things
'Planetary landings' and/or 'Space legs' into the game while being plagued by user requests to add 'This' or 'That'

This ended up with kicking the initial 'Season Model' that worked more or less during Season 1, but was outpaced
already in early horizons which is now moving into year 3. I don't know the internal reasons for that. assuming mostly
restrictions in resources. I can be a shortage of talented developers (already other big projects are to be maintained)
or infrastructure limitations that are already in the engine and needs reworking to handle one day the big planned
banana items to come.

I currently do not really believe they have something more for Version 3 then are roughly outlined feature concept.
That's why we are delivered with several updates during 2018 to mature these things. I don't expect any line of code
for Version 3 being written or any 3D Model being complete before summer next year ends.

Then maybe things are becoming more intresting. Till then there are no big enhancements for non-combat players to be expected.
Combat and Group oriented players will get served better as usual, even if they don't get all their candy at once.

Regards,
Miklos

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

I think it's the right way to go ; the yearly season model just does dwindle the player base. Still I have a bitter taste i my mouth when I think of the 165€ I cashed in for the LEP, when I could have got Horizons and be good until Q4 2018 - at the very least. When I bought LEP in August 2015, the (10y)plan was one extension per year, and even then the added-value of the LEP was a gamble : it would be covered after about three extensions/seasons. Now we know that Horizons lasts for three years... FDev should really seriously consider some perks, or partial refunds by now.

Well, I wouldn't worry too much. I think Beyond is a place holder (but a very nice placeholder) for the next year. I expect that the stand lone 'Elite' game will be phased out replaced with either just the Horizons upgrade for existing players and the Elite+Horizons starter pack. One of the motivators to get Horizons is that you get Beyond for free as well. But you can expect that Atmospheric Landings and/or Elite Feet (Space Legs) when they comes will be big upgrades (£30 or so I reckon) and I expect that all LEP and Kickerstarters who backed at that level will get them for free.

 

[Fishy]

Picked up the lifetime pass with premium beta ages ago because I could afford it at the time, knowing it'd allow me to enjoy the early expansions and if I were to take a long break, be able to come back years later and instantly have access to all content. Nothing has changed, I'm just happy for the players who picked Horizons by itself and are getting more for it. Considering the heavy store emphasis and almost complete lack of in-game earnable cosmetics, I wish the life pass was akin to that of LOTRO for example where each month grants me some store credit, but ah, I can live without it.