"Beyond" free for Horizon owners - LEP musings

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-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
I am not sure why people seem to think it is exclusive to LEP owners. He said nothing or.the sort. Didn't even hint at that.

Why is it that people keep putting 2 and 2 together to make 5 on these forums.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
znôrt said:
that's weird because horizons is 'pay2win' ...
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It isn't pay2win simply because Horizons is a fundamental part of the game and everyone who plays Elite is supposed to own it. It's not just the most recent version of the game, it's also the way development is funded and everyone enjoying their free updates without paying for the expansions is a parasite (hyperbole!!! I consider everyone to be beautiful people). The term pay2win comes from games where you can buy specific buffs that will directly improve your chances against others, making twice as much damage, more healing potions, etc. You can buy these buffs immediately before or during combat. Horizons on the other hand is more like an expansion that raises the maximum character level, if that's pay2win than every MMO would be pay2win by your definition and you wouldn't have a point anymore.
If people want to compete they should get the newest version of the game. It's not a single perk or buff, but simply the journey and direction this game and development is heading. Don't like things changing? Don't buy a game that is in constant development.

Max Factor said:
I am not sure why people seem to think it is exclusive to LEP owners. He said nothing or.the sort. Didn't even hint at that.

Why is it that people keep putting 2 and 2 together to make 5 on these forums.
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Because we must always assume the worst. I am pretty sure that Zac is the reincarnation of Hitler, at least he didn't say he isn't. That's very suspicious.
 

lenna

lenna
Cmdr Eagleboy said:
What exactly would be "pay to win" and how it is even related? :)
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Pay-to-Win would typically be classed as real world payments for in-game benefits that can be achieved through game play or give an unfair pay-walled advantage. For example: real world cash for in-game credits is a classic pay-to-win example.

I do not believe FD will ever go down that path but I think there are segments of the ED community that object to exclusive/pay-walled content/features such as Engineers which while not pay-to-win in the commonly accepted sense of the term some in this community see it as such. Engineers would only be fairly considered pay-to-win if we had to pay real-world cash for each use of an Engineer.

I can see how Engineers could be considered a grey area where the Pay-to-Win debate is concerned but I think those complaining about Engineers being exclusive to those with access to Horizons will probably always find something to complain about and any feature ED introduce behind a pay-wall will probably end up being subject to similar complaints by such people regardless of the legitimacy. FD should have probably segregated Horizons and non-Horizons players or given individual non-Horizons owners the option of not instancing with Horizons owners (i.e. not instancing with those that they perceive as having an unfair advantage over them).
 
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babelfisch

babelfisch
rlsg said:
Pay-to-Win would typically be classed as real world payments for in-game benefits that can be achieved through game play. For example: real world cash for in-game credits is a classic pay-to-win example.

I do not believe FD will ever go down that path but I think there are segments of the ED community that object to exclusive/pay-walled content/features such as Engineers which while not pay-to-win in the commonly accepted sense of the term some in this community see it as such.
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I hope that we'll never see pay 2 win in this game. But it's possible that they sell more storage for modules, ships, materials and data and give it for free to LEP owners. I hope not though.
 

Marc_Hicks

Marc_Hicks
Yes, probably should have explained myself a bit better. My concern was relating to Exclusive content, but nothing in Zac's response suggests they are planning to go down that road.

My other hope, then, is that they package the premium content into a single release.....because I do get concerned about potential fragmentation of the community, in regards to what we can access in-game.

babelfisch said:
I hope that we'll never see pay 2 win in this game. But it's possible that they sell more storage for modules, ships, materials and data and give it for free to LEP owners. I hope not though.
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Storage I could possibly live with.....but nothing else.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
rlsg said:
Pay-to-Win would typically be classed as real world payments for in-game benefits that can be achieved through game play. For example: real world cash for in-game credits is a classic pay-to-win example.

I do not believe FD will ever go down that path but I think there are segments of the ED community that object to exclusive/pay-walled content/features such as Engineers which while not pay-to-win in the commonly accepted sense of the term some in this community see it as such.
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No, that's not how pay to win works. Also in this case premium content is mentioned, so most likely can be bought only using money.

babelfisch said:
Because we must always assume the worst. I am pretty sure that Zac is the reincarnation of Hitler, at least he didn't say he isn't. That's very suspicious.
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My coffee! :O :D
 

lenna

lenna
Cmdr Eagleboy said:
No, that's not how pay to win works. Also in this case premium content is mentioned, so most likely can be bought only using money.
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Horizons/Engineers is not pay-to-win - I did revise my too-tight definition of pay-to-win (see my edit) but despite Engineers being a "grey-area" in that topic it still does not change the fact that the benefits from Engineers are not actually REQUIRED for normal game play - it may allow access to areas that are otherwise inaccessible but it is not a true case of pay-to-win.

When FD talk about Premium Content, I am not sure what they are exactly referring to but if it is simply paying for access to features that require in-game effort/investment to benefit from (and I am not talking about usage here) then it is not pay-to-win in the strictest sense of the term (regardless of the nature of said features).

[EDIT]Expanded hangar size or module storage size would not be truly pay-to-win as it is more a convenience feature than a true benefit.[/EDIT]
 
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NSR2

N
My own thoughts:
1) "Maintenance" updates should be free, ie bug fixes, and if you improve something (station interiors / mining /etc/) then it makes sense for it to be free (you want to avoid code fragmentation etc).
2) "Content" updates should be paid for (I don't have the LEP). Devs gotta eat.

So the extra free content reveals are nice, and not expected.

What interests me now is the content that is to be paid for, but isn't revealed.
<speculation mode>
Reasons for not revealing:
1) Maybe fdev didn't want to draw attention away from the free stuff / game improvements?
2) Time management the paid content could be quite complicated to make time wise it might slip from say Q2 to Q3.
3) Hype management. Only hype something if you know you can deliver, no one wants to have a NMS situation.

So I think the paid content is going to be complicated to create, and cool.
I'll end up buying it anyway, but I would be interested in knowing the potential price point.
More £££ increases my hype expectations. Only a £ will lower it.
At the same time I can see how difficult mentioning price would be without mentioning content.
</speculation mode>

Anyway time to stop acting like a child the night before Christmas, guessing what's in the big or small boxes..
 

Cheapchips

Cheapchips
I'm surprised we're getting some paid expansion content next year. I'd have thought the expo would have been the place to show that off. Having said that, the beyond reveal seemed to go down well and it would have taken away focus on those features.

I hope that this is the beginning of having an annual core game Beyond style updates and smaller, more specific expansions.*

However, I am annoyed at Zak for revealing there being paid content. I'd put my endless speculation to on hold for a while. Now my brains resumed pondering atmospheric landings? Space legs? Gas giants? Trumbles? :)

* Horizons did this really, but the season model put some of the wrong things behind the paywall. Paying for just 2.0 at a cheaper price would probably have made more money overall.
 
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Ikari

Ikari
I wish Frontier would be more clear when throwing around statements like "Free" and "Premium".

Right now there are a lot of CMDRs expecting all of the beyond updates to be free however Zacs said statement seems to indicate this is not the case at all.

It may be in frontiers interest to let people know exactly what is free in beyond and what is paid for.

"We are not ready to talk about it" is not a good move when you have a large section of the player base expecting to get something for free when clearly this isn't the case.
 

racer1

racer1
racer1 said:
My expectation is that there is stuff they haven't shown that you will have to pay for and that LEP owners will get it as part of the LEP.
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I always thought in the graphic with the 4 updates in 2018, the middle two looked a bit empty ;)

My guess after chatting with DB last night...

Q2 - Space Toilets
Q3 - Cargo Loading Simulator

You know this one.

o8ti071.png


Remember they've already said everything we've seen so far is free for Horizons/LEP owners.
 
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Juniper

Juniper
Ikari said:
I wish Frontier would be more clear when throwing around statements like "Free" and "Premium".

Right now there are a lot of CMDRs expecting all of the beyond updates to be free however Zacs said statement seems to indicate this is not the case at all.

It may be in frontiers interest to let people know exactly what is free in beyond and what is paid for.

"We are not ready to talk about it" is not a good move when you have a large section of the player base expecting to get something for free when clearly this isn't the case.
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They did - at the Expo. They outlined a bunch of stuff that is going to be in Beyond (which wasn't an exhaustive list), and all those things will be free next year in Beyond.

What Zac is talking about is other unknown content that hasn't been mentioned yet - probably because they're not sure if it'll be ready by 2018 or if it'll slip to 2019. Development is fun. ;)

As to what that content is - we can only speculate. But everything that was mentioned at the Expo will be free to Horizons owners. Nobody's being misled as far as I can see.
 

BurnyBurns

BurnyBurns
racer1 said:
I always thought in the graphic with the 4 updates in 2018, the middle two looked a bit empty ;)

You know this one.

https://i.imgur.com/o8ti071.png
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/File:Elite-Dangerous-Beyond-Roadmap.png

Remember they've already said everything we've seen so far is free for Horizons/LEP owners.
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The middle is the "crumple zone". It'll be used if the first update comes crashing into Q2 or later, so the Q4 update doesn't suffer from the impact. ;)

o8ti071iqs6z.png


Wishing you luck with a swift completion of this "season"'s updates, Frontier devs! here's hoping that the above won't have to happen. :p
 
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Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Zac and Dale, actually huge THANK YOU for you to weighting in on issue! :) Sometimes it feels futile, but message is out there so here's up to 2018 in ED!

And moar Thargoids fun in 2017!
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Ikari said:
I wish Frontier would be more clear when throwing around statements like "Free" and "Premium".

Right now there are a lot of CMDRs expecting all of the beyond updates to be free however Zacs said statement seems to indicate this is not the case at all.

It may be in frontiers interest to let people know exactly what is free in beyond and what is paid for.

"We are not ready to talk about it" is not a good move when you have a large section of the player base expecting to get something for free when clearly this isn't the case.
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How much clearer can it get? All seems pretty obvious to me. Everything in beyond that has been shown is free for horizons and some stuff probably for non horizons player, they already said that a number of times.

But there is other stuff that hasn't been spoken about that is coming during the year that is seperate to the beyond stuff that will be paid for, and LEP owners will pay nothing as they have already paid for it in advance.

How is that confusing?
 
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