PvP Aliens are ruining PvP
I get your point but you know what the thing is.
I am not opposed to pvp but in this game there needs to be reason for it you know Powerplay bounty hunting etc.
However this game is simply not a battle royal game and I refuse to be forced into it.
What they call pvp in this game has nothing to do with real pvp.
There is no match of skills and equal opportunity it's about having a over engineer ship and then blow up unarmed traders in ten seconds just to ruin someone's game.
The funny thing is that most of these so called pvpers first use every cheat and exploit to get a rediculous ship and then start complaining when someone uses an exploit against them oooooh the irony.
By the way no problem with legitimate pvp at all if I have a bounty on me you can blow me to Kingdom come and I for sure won't log on you.
I agree with the op combat logging is ruining pvp and yet frontier does very little to solve this issue, when someone logs on me they sometimes admit it but they generally call me a griefer for interdicting them at cg for cargo.
To all the loggers out there if you cant get good in open then dont play in it instead learn how to escape like high waking and then go in open instead of cheating
To all the loggers out there if you cant get good in open then dont play in it instead learn how to escape like high waking and then go in open instead of cheating
I have no clue why you draw such conclusions! And im not a jackass by the way but thanks. [heart]
I just participated at a combat CG, if i attack bigger ships thats more than fair.
How should i know his ship is damaged if his hull is at 100%?! But anyway it was just an excuse from him, i would gladly post the video of said Cmdr but that would be naming and shaming.
He was flying a Corvette and i was flying a Gunship so he just stayed too long in the fight because his shields dropped and i destroyed his FSD. He could just highwake 20 seconds earlier but he didnt. Dont know if he was to proud or just too late but thats no excuse for clogging right?!
True, but they also agreed to the terms of service right?!
And since when is it allowed to promote combat logging on the forums, that new to me!
Its directly under open play, if you overlook that then i cant help im sorry!
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Yeah but going on your description you are actually playing the game.
You interdict then communicate and then when things go wrong combat.
Combat logging in this example is a bit childish bur most don't pvp like you do.
I am inclined to agree with some of your points there.
Namely, I too am not opposed to PvP; not often interested in it either.
True, the game is not like a traditional game where you actively select the option to engage in PvP.
Private and solo are there to use, arguably the implementation could be better, but we all have the option nonetheless.
I am interested in knowing, from your experience, how many friendly player interactions do you have vs. hostile? And what are the nature of those interactions?
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Enjoying dominating another player is the very essence of that though. You are comparing your skills to that of other players. Sure there is no direct 'Gamer score' as in other games but at it's core, it is effectively the same.
You are asserting your dominance over another player and hence measuring yourself against them.
Care to expand on that? I can't see the leap of thought from removing engineers to this? People were logging before engineers anyway.
Not sure what else i can say to make it clearer. I responded to a comment by Zaphod asking what Carebears (ie: PvEers - at least, i assume that is who he meant, using a rather wide brush there by the way) are whining about. I noted that PvEers shouldn't have anything to whine about, since this topic is of no concern to them.
I'm sure i've heard it said many times by people that by entering open, you are consenting to PvP, and therefore, anyone playing in Open cannot be considered a true PvEer, and by extension, a Carebear. Following this logic, its a 100% PvP issue, and no reason for PvEers to whine about.
Erm... i think that covers it.
Oh, and that combat logging against players and NPCs are differnt matters and topics for discussion in different places.
Realistically, that's a totally different discussion. I'll outline it but not debate it here.
It isn't "victim" from a "woe is me for being hurted" perspective; but to give an example that you might relate to, one might sneak into PG intending to load up on UAs and UA bomb a station - and if an NPC were about to destroy that player, but the player combat logged to cheat death, an entire station could be taken offline because someone didn't feel like playing the game properly at the time.
On a more subtle level the same thing occurs on a less intentional note via the BGS. If someone in a trade iCutter decides to combat log because an NPC was (somehow) about to destroy that lumbering shield beast, the faction they were about to deliver to gets a substantial influence boost they shouldn't have.
This is my line of thought around dropping offline mode being a mistake. One part of ED, and notably the devs themselves early on, were screaming that there's this beautiful living galaxy that everyone is a part of and influences: I love the idea of everyone's actions having an effect on the galaxy around them, but when they squashed solo play into it, the solo playstyle sorta engulfed the multiplayer aspect.
And now ED can't decide whether it's a solo game or a multiplayer game. Consequence is supposed to be inherent, but it's vanished and been replaced by a crowd that thinks if an action doesn't blow another CMDRs ship up directly, it's "no harm/no foul".
Well you could say the exact same of PvE; I'd personally argue PvE is worse, because combat against NPCs is a flat out exercise in superiority.
The reason you do any PvP content in the current state is for the "dynamic" experience for want of a better word. Destroy one NPC conda, you've destroyed 'em all. Pirate an NPC T9, all you have left to repeat the action for is money - and there are better ways.
PvE is inherently repetitive (and that's no slander towards FD - the AI could be harder, but PvE in any game will always be repetitive). PvP has always been about challenge and unpredictability. It's no different in Destiny, or CoD, or the damn pokemon card game, and it's no different here.
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Everyone.
The combat logger gets to retain assets that should have been lost, and the use those assets are put to will eventually affect the rest of the game for everyone else, to some small degree.
Beyond the number of potential witnesses?
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I'm sure you will find some PvPers who enjoy Engineers for the edge they can give themselves over other players. Not all PvPers enjoy a level playing field. As Kerrash noted, for some its simply about the win or dominating, and they don't care if skill is not the only factor in getting the win.
As a PvEer, i enjoy Engineers, so i'm glad you excluded me from your definition of insanity
Not something i want to get drawn into discussing in a PvP thread. If you want to discuss PvE combat logging, we can discuss it in a separate thread in another part of the forums.
These double standards are the worst idea ever .... to this including unlimited "penalty free" using suiciwinder when it is "only" bcs shooting "good" NPCs.
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You are confusing the desire to stay on topic for this forum with confirmation that the act is condoned. Not wanting to speak for AA, or for that matter go off topic myself, but I have to agree with some of the above posts; combat logging from an NPC to avoid the penalties is damaging to the BGS at the very least.
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Well I find interaction quite minimal in general.
Used to play with friends and that was fun.
I think the most meaningfully other contact I had was at the Guardian site in the beginning helpin each other out with artifacts other players giving aiecover and some pvp.
It's a shame the game does not allow for a more combininggameplay like that.
For example let's say you need to trade between two opposing Powerplay systems where aligned players wil shoot you on site.
It would be cool if you could then aquire the pvp services of let's say op and like minded pure combat pilots that like to blow things up to escort you your destination blowing away every opposing player on the way.
Everybody happy great pvp exiting traiding.
Regretfully that's not this game lol.
I don't seek out level playing fields in game any more than I do in real life and I think anyone who goes into a life or death situation without stacking the odds as far in their favor as possible is either suicidally insane or mentally disabled. Sure, I enjoy getting my butt kicked from time to time, but I don't go looking for butt kickings.
The first thing I do to stack the odds in my favor is to acquire the necessary skills to be competitive with, if not outright dominate, the majority of my likely opponents. Once I have those skills honed to the point that further improvement, while always possible, is not the most economical means to my ends, I then make sure I have the best tools practical. Once I have the skills and the tools, I apply them as the situation demands...ideally, this would be tantamount to clubbing a sleeping foe to death via remote control from a bunker on the dark side of the moon, but more often than not it's simply self-defense against long odds.
Engineering is something I find rather distasteful as it's a significant time sink that must be done ad nauseum to have a competitive arsenal of tools.
Given that you conflate being friendly with your own enjoyment, I get the distinct impression that you struggle to emphasise with the person on the other end of your lasers.
I have been a big advocate of co-op play from the start and you are right it would be great to see more but this game is just not designed to be that way.
My hope is that the wing-missions mentioned for ED:Beyond might help turn a corner there.
I get where you're coming from with the exception of "you can't really blame them." Although it is indeed primarily on FD for making PvE and PvP builds so far apart in terms of power and then further exacerbating the divide with tiered engineer mods... a part of the blame still remains on the player that C-logs. This is what the multiplayer environment is in ED: 3 modes of play with 3 different levels of risk with Open being the riskiest. If they're not prepared to encounter an attacker and be ready to either run or stay and accept that they might see a rebuy screen, then they shouldn't use Open until they are prepared to accept the situations that can occur.
In my opinion the things I can see, and hope for FD to do to offer a better playing experience is to:
1) Make a proper crime and consequences system so that lawful players are not at such a disadvantage by a system that favours wanton murder sprees. They can do this by such things as:
- denying docking access in non-Anarchy systems to wanted players that go above the accumulated bounty amount of say 3 player kills. 3 strikes and you're out!
- escalating security responses in High and Medium Security systems. In particular buffing the security AI difficulty level and giving them access to engineered goods. Stuff like phasing sequence, TLB, bi-weave retreat and recharge tactics, maybe even PP weapons like Packhounds, go nuts! Basically encourage outlaws and player serial killers to have more reason to stay in Anarchy systems and strike out from there rather than having run of the whole bubble as if everywhere were an Anarchy like it is now.
2) Make it possible to look for groups and create "fireteams" to use a Destiny term in-game via the bulletin board in stations. By fireteams I basically mean a way to look for and create spontaneous wings with any similarly interested players, i.e. Goid hunts, etc. They can adapt the Multi-crew matchmaking feature to put players into the same instance once the interested players sign up/are accepted by the wing's creator, i.e. the player who posted the request. Anti-griefing feature should come as standard, i.e. if you shoot your wing mates more than say 5 times (healie beams not counted) you get automatically booted from the wing and the instance.
Just these two features would make for a better playing experience in my opinion provided they're done well and arrive fully fleshed out, no more skeleton place holders please.
I agree with you that CL is exploit and that it should not be available to use. I guess you can and should report such behaviour...
on other note if someone has a plesure of murdering weaker ships and does not want to have some PVP challenge and only want to send someone to rebuy screen that is a case for some specialist to be perfectly honest.
Fully supporting PvP fighting and proper combat killing (this is why I run if I can or take rebuy screen).
On other hand suicide ramming in station and such cheep tricks just to send someone to a rebuy screen should be addressed too.