[video] Money GRINDING problem 2

[Stealthie]

I don't get this attitude at all, especially in a game which has ranks from "Mostly Harmless" to "Deadly" for combat, "Penniless" to "Tycoon" for Trader, and "Aimless" to "Pioneer" for Explorer. The names themselves are supposed to evoke achievement, with all of the ranks culminating in "Elite." Players should have to overcome challenges to reach the top in the careers. There should be stratification between those who make the effort to become experts at the game and those who just enjoy messing around.

Correct, it is not imaginary at all but it is something you chose to do. Nobody makes you go out and do the same thing over and over. There is no mission given that says do this 100 times, there is only the player and his desires/goals and the mechanics of getting what they want.

In regard to both these replies...

The issue, such as it is, is that there's very little actual progression.

You don't become a "grand master" at chess, for example, just by winning 10,000 matches against 7 year old kids.
You have to play against opponents of ever-increasing skill until, eventually, you're considered worthy of the title.

In ED you could, theoretically, attain the rank of "Elite" (and almost everything else in the game) simply by repeating the same things you did on day 1 over and over again countless times.

Thing is, I don't actually mind that.
In a game that claims to allow people to "play your own way", there probably shouldn't be anything that is arbitrarily locked behind some kind of "skill gate" unless you can "git gud" enough at a specific thing.
There probably should be a variety of ways of achieving the same thing so that everybody can find a way to achieve it eventually.

Trouble is, in ED, there's little in the way of choice as to how you go about achieving things.
The only choice you have is whether or not you bother to pursue a thing at all.
If you do attempt to pursue a thing, there's usually only one method of achieving it.

It'd make for a more interesting game if there were a variety of ways to achieve everything and people could try their hand at each different method until they could find a suitable balance between ease and efficiency.

 

[5 Puppis]

There's a bit of a disconnect here. Let's say a player chooses to set a lofty goal. Could be anything - getting an Anaconda, superpower ranking, or (god forbid) Powerplay.

To accomplish that goal one can currently 1) do a unchallenging repetitive task over and over (grind), 2) accept their goal will take months to years of play, or 3) abandon their goal and readjust their expectations of the game (for example: just play with small ships). What some people are saying is that they want a *different* option. Telling people to do option 2 or 3 instead of 1 is talking past each other.

A lot of people want to be able achieve their goal through complex tasks that really tests mastery of specific skill sets. For example: want to unlock Gunships? Bring a wake scanner to system X and follow an informant who will tell you about a high security planetary base to assault. Take out the base, run in with your SRV to grab some data, and you learn about a ship (in a wing with 2 Anacondas) transporting a data cache. Steal the cache (in solo mode), go to Sol, and smuggle it into Mars High to get authorized to buy a FAS. That to me is more engaging and meaningful than any of the three options above. I have zero desire to buy an Anaconda, but will happily do a do a difficult challenge to unlock it.

 

[jonesskill]

agreed with OP, even the mission board now is a new type of GRIND, you need at least 1 hour of board fliping to get a minimum DECENT missions, since the mission generator only give peniless/other less crap rank missions.

That 15minutes timer to reload the board just increase the problem, don't solve it.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

In regard to both these replies...

The issue, such as it is, is that there's very little actual progression.

You don't become a "grand master" at chess, for example, just by winning 10,000 matches against 7 year old kids.
You have to play against opponents of ever-increasing skill until, eventually, you're considered worthy of the title.

In ED you could, theoretically, attain the rank of "Elite" (and almost everything else in the game) simply by repeating the same things you did on day 1 over and over again countless times.

Thing is, I don't actually mind that.
In a game that claims to allow people to "play your own way", there probably shouldn't be anything that is arbitrarily locked behind some kind of "skill gate" unless you can "git gud" enough at a specific thing.
There probably should be a variety of ways of achieving the same thing so that everybody can find a way to achieve it eventually.

Trouble is, in ED, there's little in the way of choice as to how you go about achieving things.
The only choice you have is whether or not you bother to pursue a thing at all.
If you do attempt to pursue a thing, there's usually only one method of achieving it.

It'd make for a more interesting game if there were a variety of ways to achieve everything and people could try their hand at each different method until they could find a suitable balance between ease and efficiency.

Variety is the spice of life!

Ships: The majority of ships can be bought for credits of which there are numerous ways to earn those.
Rank locked ships: Yes there should be more ways to gain the ranks other than just missions but to be fair there are quite a lot of mission types to pick from.
Eng materials: Granted these are a task that you need to engage with. One option is for there to be a healthy market for such items to be sold to that then have a direct impact on the number available to buy for other players.

The game has choice but like everything could do with far more 'meaningful' and 'interesting' ways to gain what you desire. Or, to bring this back to where it all started, more choice for you to blaze your own trail.

 

[Conch]

I think grinding for set goal is fine..but stuff like navelrank is a real issue.

If they linked that with powerplay it would be a start.

 

[Xae]

Reading this thread is time consuming.

Trying to identify insightful posts within it is challenging.

It is good to see that you can be public about your own challenges with literacy, however I would suggest seeking a tutor instead of posting random things on a message board in attempts to appear witty.

 

[Roland Deschain]

I agree with pretty much everything in yamiks video.

The idea of a skill-based progression is wonderful the option to make it an addition to the current system so the player has the choice is even better.
For example: you need Mats for an engineer...guess what, you can get the stuff the old fashioned way, but since nobody got time for that you can also try to kill this heavily guarded Mafia/Pirate-Boss and his fleet in System XY - he has the needed Mats.
Maybe the goal is even so difficult, that you need a wing to have a chance...

There are lot's of awesome possibility to this!

However, since they make an overhaul to the core game play next year, I guess/expect/hope the "grind situation" is something they will address. And it's just simply a fact that there is an issue here, I only need to visit the forums occasionally and see how often the topic pops up...

o7

 

[Morbad]

Can you provide examples of how the ranking system actually separates by achievement?

It doesn't, which is what I said.

Just ignore the ranks and get on with the game. Your expertise, or lack thereof, will show in what you are capable of.

 

[Jethzk]

Surely there is a better way to make your point than attacking everyone who has different views.

 

[StiTch]

I can make several mill for shooting a few ships in a CZ on top of bonds money. This vid is like calling out Buckingham Palace as a 1 bedroom flat because you took a picture of just one of its rooms.

Git gud at earning money, son.

 

[Red Anders]

It is good to see that you can be public about your own challenges with literacy, however I would suggest seeking a tutor instead of posting random things on a message board in attempts to appear witty.

Yes, I'll leave that to you because you clearly need the practice.

 

[Xae]

Surely there is a better way to make your point than attacking everyone who has different views.

The other way people prefer is to hammer the report button and get everyone who disagrees with you remove from the conversation.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Maybe people just forget about the Beluga since the Anaconda makes it largely irrelevant, as it does to many other ships also.

Also, the grind isn't imaginary, no matter how many times you'd like to repeat it.

I took that to mean "self imposed" not "imaginary".
Is there an objective definition of "grind" you're working with here?
I'm unaware of one.

 

[ElectricZ]

It doesn't, which is what I said.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it reads like opposite of what you said:

There should be stratification between those who make the effort to become experts at the game and those who just enjoy messing around.

There is, but that's never been what the ranks have measured or depicted.

Unless by "there is" you were referring to some other measure by which the game measures skill and achievement of the player?

Either way, it's sad that the ranks can be ignored, especially since the top rank is, you know, the name of the game. Elite. That reduces it to window dressing. It could be removed without affecting the game at all. Having use for ranks in game other than gating would provide some of that mysterious element known as "gameplay."

EDIT: and it plays back into my original point. If you ignore the whole rank aspect of the game, absolutely never look at the numbers and rank names on the right hand panel, put post-it-notes on the screen to permanently block them, whatever. If you truthfully don't give a lick about the ranks and just play?

You'll eventually rank up to Elite in all of them, automatically.

Elite, indeed.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I took that to mean "self imposed" not "imaginary".
Is there an objective definition of "grind" you're working with here?
I'm unaware of one.

It's a side-effect of the degeneration of society, or perhaps the growing loudness of the ticking of death clocks.
People are simply in the biggest hurry to do any and everything these days.
Instant meals, disposable everything, why fix it when you just buy a new one?

We're not mayflies - we (usually) live longer than 24 hours. Slow down, enjoy life. It will be over before you know it anyways.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

It's a side-effect of the degeneration of society, or perhaps the growing loudness of the ticking of death clocks.
People are simply in the biggest hurry to do any and everything these days.
Instant meals, disposable everything, why fix it when you just buy a new one?

We're not mayflies - we (usually) live longer than 24 hours. Slow down, enjoy life. It will be over before you know it anyways.

Agreed, it was rhetorical.
Great post earlier btw, +rep.

Another aspect is the aversion and personal affront to simple dissent.

As you pointed out it doesn't even take that long.
That's exactly how I'm experiencing it.

 

[Sylveria]

It's actually a lot less of a grind than it used to be, before they removed the rank restrictions for missions.

It used to be you couldn't even pick up a mission unless you'd achieved a certain rank in Explorer, Combat or Trade. Now you can just ignore the requirement (assuming you meet the others, like cargo space, etc.) and continue on and still complete it and get the rewards for it, too.

You think it's a "grind" now? Seriously?

I'm really sick of the constant whinge threads about how difficult/easy it is to play the game... either play it, or don't.

This game is being ruined because FDEV keeps catering to minority whiners on the forums about missions and such.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

I don't get this attitude at all, especially in a game which has ranks from "Mostly Harmless" to "Deadly" for combat, "Penniless" to "Tycoon" for Trader, and "Aimless" to "Pioneer" for Explorer. The names themselves are supposed to evoke achievement, with all of the ranks culminating in "Elite." Players should have to overcome challenges to reach the top in the careers. There should be stratification between those who make the effort to become experts at the game and those who just enjoy messing around.

To climb a mountain one person will gatherer equipment, practice the skills to use it, make the ascent plan and scale the vertical side with all the risks that accompany it. The other will drive slowly up the paved road to the scenic overlook at the peak. Even though both people get to enjoy the same view, only one of the two should call themselves a mountain climber.

Elite has nothing but paved roads to get to the top. There is no distinction between CMDRs who reaches Elite by being the best at what they do and CMDRs who eventually fill the progress bar "just playing the game" other than the time it takes to fill up thefrom 0 to 100%. And this is where the whole idea of grinding is born. You don't have to do anything but drive to get to the top, and the game mechanics let anybody do it.

Your argument against "trapping something behind and achievement" is something "not many people are going to be able to do" turns this:

http://edassets.org/img/preview/rank-9.png

into this:

http://deansomerset.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/plrpat.jpg

I don't entirely disagree with you, here. I don't think rank missions in the navies should be regular quests, for instance. I think they should be really hard battle missions. That aside, there are so many multi-role vessels that making a mission for buying ships is largely pointless or would cause even more complaints. Take the Anaconda- what kind of mission do you want for that? Exploration? Trade? Combat? Piracy? All 4? You can do anything with any ship in the game almost, to varying degrees of effectiveness. It's silly to try to shoehorn a certain quest type on it, right? Why do I need to do a battle mission if I'm just going to be hauling in a Type 9? Doesn't it make more sense to have any mission type or activity contribute to a single pool so a person can buy what they want with it?

That's what credits are.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, but it's decent. Yamiks is complaining A) because he likes to do that and B) because his video series was based around buying every ship in the game and recording the classified camera of it for a few minutes and throwing in expletives. Of course he's going to complain about grinding- that's what he was doing (BY CHOICE).

I have an Anaconda, a corvette, a Type 9 etc etc to the tune of 2 billion. I have enough right now liquid to buy and A rate a Beluga (and I've been thinking about it). I don't grind for credits. I don't do exploits. I just play the game. I happen to be decent at it, so I get paid well and I don't suffer rebuys, so the money keeps stacking up. Is that not normal?

 

[fu9ar]

cool YouTube clickbait cmdr!

pewds will be proud!

 

[Mrat13]

cool YouTube clickbait cmdr!

pewds will be proud!

The Yamiks is awesome cos he says it how it is. Don't like his opinion, don't listen, and stay in that bubble forever.