Okay we need to talk about how wanted levels are handed out.

[[VR] Mad Mike]

1 addition. Imo if a wing of pirates interdicts you and one opens fire ALL members of the wing should be fair game without a scan.
Think logically if 3 muggers corner me and one hits me, if I get the hay makers out I do not think anyone should blame me if I don't wait for the other 2 to put the boot in before I defend myself

 

[Chris Simon]

Provided ‘Report Crimes’ is on

Yea, good point.
I hope everyone does by default. I only switch it off when I'm smuggling and don't want to draw cops' attention by some random brawling on the way.

 

[Faded Glory]

I don't think anybody thinks that's wrong, do they?

About the only aspect of that scenario that's open for criticism (IMO) is the nature of the response that occurs as a result.

I mean, you've got outlaws spacing clean ships while SysSec cruise around, apparently oblivious, and all the other ships mind their own business yet if you tag a clean ship then suddenly everything turns red and you've got SysSec and all the other ships coming after you.

Might be more appropriate if, after a friendly-fire incident, you get the fine, the 8-minute bounty and a message saying you've got 30 seconds to leave the area and then SysSec become hostile.

Personally I get the impression that quite a few people do think it's wrong, and as I said in a previous post in this thread, I don't think it's realistic that all the system authority turn on you. Perhaps that's a limitation of the game, and I wouldn't be screaming the forums down if they changed it. But I do believe that it should mean (and I suspect that FD do too), that the player needs to stop what they are doing, immediately, not 20 or 30 seconds later. They forfeit the bounty they were going after, and have to cool down for 8 minutes. That's all the assault bounty is, a cool down period.

But as I've been saying in the last few replies, it really is easy to get away. I'm not saying 'git gud', or that I am some sort of super pilot, I'm not, I'm simply saying that if, as soon as you see that big red wanted announcement in the HUD, you stow weapons and boost away, the NPCs probably won't even land a shot on you. It actually does take them about 5 or 10 seconds to turn on you, (I've watched the messages in the comms panel), and they don't try to follow you. That at least is my experience, because yes, I make mistakes too, but I haven't even been hit by NPC weapons after becoming wanted in such a scenario for years now.

That is what I mean by consequences, you shoot the wrong ship, you don't get to benefit from the fight. Irritating? Yes, it is, and presumably nobody commits friendly fire on purpose, but there have to be some consequences for actions in the game don't there? At least, I believe it is a better game for the fact that we players cannot simply spray our big engineered weapons with impunity, and then just shrug it off when we hit what we aren't supposed to.

As I said some time ago, I'd be happy if FD could implement it that once you have scanned one ship in a wing, then all the others would immediately show their status as soon as you target them, the way a ship that has already fired upon you does. Frankly though, in my experience, if I'm fighting multiple ships, by the time I have scanned and engaged one, the others are either shooting me and therefore a threat, so I won't need to scan them too as they will show as soon as targeted, and if they aren't shooting at me, then I have time to scan them without being disadvantaged.

 

[Faded Glory]

Trying to blow you up is just not comparable to a slap on the wrist, ever. It's not even comparable to locking you up in the cellhouse for an hour or two to think about what you've done. It is straight-up send-you-six-feet-under "frontier justice" (okay, the pun is intentional).

And yes, NPCs can, will, and do hunt you over paltry 400 credit 8 minute bounties. It's not 100% of the time but it does happen....

Not sure what you expect them to do TBH.

In my opinion, as I said above, it's exactly comparable to locking you up for 8 minutes. You simply have to stop what you are doing and get out of dodge, then 8 minutes later you can go right back and carry on as if nothing has happened. I'm sorry, but I'm going to maintain that if a player gets destroyed in these circumstances, it was because they took a calculated (or otherwise) decision to stay and fight despite being wanted.

Regarding being hunted, certainly it hasn't happened to me when I've had an assault bounty or got the same bounty for scanning a private data beacon, and besides, I'd be in a different system, clean and quite within my rights to defend myself.

 

[Tengarnos]

Its called sarcasm. The point is you check first and then shoot, shooting without checking should always be a crime even if you 'luck out'.

Luck out? Hell most of the wanted are showed themselfs as pirates even without you scanning them. Oh he want cargo, welp bad for you fist scanning than shooting. This is wanted for sure so why should I bother to scan him before shooting at him?

 

[lecorsobreton]

What do you suggest as an alternative. Just tanking damage until I have data on every person who I know is about to attack me? It seems a lot safer to just eliminate threats as they emerge.

Always resolve as many targets as possible before engaging. 4pips to shield and scan. That's what I do now and I have not had a friendly fire hit in quite a while.

 

[Marra Morgan]

My point is that I should have the advantage of getting the drop on a pirate by waiting for it to drop in, (or should be able to start shooting after being interdicted) I shouldn't have to wait for it to start shooting at me before it's "OK" to start shooting myself. That stupid scan sometimes takes 8-10 seconds, it should only take 1-2 seconds with the tech level in 3303.

Nothing is stopping you getting the advantage, only your own scruples with legality

 

[askavir]

Those git gud guys haven't a clue. They need to get off their high horses and get real. I'd like to see them miss this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRewG0WxaZU

Yeah, how could someone possibly notice an enormous ship which can be clearly seen though the canopy flying into the front of your ship for 5 seconds before the player hits it...

 

[Stealthie]

Regarding being hunted, certainly it hasn't happened to me when I've had an assault bounty or got the same bounty for scanning a private data beacon, and besides, I'd be in a different system, clean and quite within my rights to defend myself.

I has happened to others though.

As I said before, my ship was attacked while I was looking for mat's in Kuwemaki which resulted in me getting a 7-day bounty for destroying them.
Afterwards, I was constantly pestered by NPC BHers and every time one interdicted me I'd either evade the interdiction or submit and run away without firing a shot and then I'd find my bounty had been reset to 7 days again.

At the time I'd finished engineering a bunch of ships and I had them all parked-up in a station in Kuwemaki, in the process of taking them all down to Hera Tani to have the PP modded to suit the load-out.
I couldn't do that because the bounty in Kuwemaki caused Hera Tani's outpost to fire on me and I couldn't do anything else without meeting BHers who reset the bloody bounty to 7 days.

I consider Sideycide to be cheating so, in the end, I just had to stop playing for 7 days so the bounty would expire.
And, during that 7 days, I started playing Skyrim again and ended up staying away from ED for more than 3 months.

When a game mechanic creates a situation (unjustly) where a player's best option is to NOT play the game, the dev's really need to ask themselves if that's what they're trying to accomplish.

 

[Faded Glory]

I has happened to others though.

As I said before, my ship was attacked while I was looking for mat's in Kuwemaki which resulted in me getting a 7-day bounty for destroying them.
Afterwards, I was constantly pestered by NPC BHers and every time one interdicted me I'd either evade the interdiction or submit and run away without firing a shot and then I'd find my bounty had been reset to 7 days again.

At the time I'd finished engineering a bunch of ships and I had them all parked-up in a station in Kuwemaki, in the process of taking them all down to Hera Tani to have the PP modded to suit the load-out.
I couldn't do that because the bounty in Kuwemaki caused Hera Tani's outpost to fire on me and I couldn't do anything else without meeting BHers who reset the bloody bounty to 7 days.

I consider Sideycide to be cheating so, in the end, I just had to stop playing for 7 days so the bounty would expire.
And, during that 7 days, I started playing Skyrim again and ended up staying away from ED for more than 3 months.

When a game mechanic creates a situation (unjustly) where a player's best option is to NOT play the game, the dev's really need to ask themselves if that's what they're trying to accomplish.

That's a whole different issue / discussion. I'm talking about an 8 minute assault bounty and not being hunted.

I'm perfectly aware that NPC bounty hunters will hunt players who have longer lasting bounties. From what I have read on the forums, most bounty hunter NPCs will be clean, but unless they attack you in the jurisdiction where you are wanted, as soon as they fire upon you they become wanted and you can dispatch them legally. Since bounties are faction specific, I cannot see why having one should stop anyone playing, although of course, if you have a bounty in a jurisdiction where you want to do a particular thing it can put a cramp in your style (or add excitement some would say...).

In your situation, I have no idea why your bounty kept resetting to 7 days. Evading an interdiction isn't an offense, nor is submitting and running away. I have no idea what was going on there from what you have described. I think I'd have bug reported it. But what you have described is way off the topic that started this thread...

Personally I think the whole bounty mechanic in the game is a bit messy, perhaps for different reasons to you, but that's a different discussion.

I agree that if a mechanic stops you playing then it's a poor mechanic, but having any bounty shouldn't really do that since there are lots of places to go play where you will be clean, and an 8 minute assault bounty definitely doesn't.

That said, typically this is a very consuming game, and breaks from it can be very healthy!

 

[V'larr]

Not sure what you expect them to do TBH.

If you've been reading this thread, that should be completely apparent by now? *NOT* instantly going into full hunt-me-down murder mode just because of a single friendly fire incident? That'd be a good start?

In my opinion, as I said above, it's exactly comparable to locking you up for 8 minutes. You simply have to stop what you are doing and get out of dodge, then 8 minutes later you can go right back and carry on as if nothing has happened. I'm sorry, but I'm going to maintain that if a player gets destroyed in these circumstances, it was because they took a calculated (or otherwise) decision to stay and fight despite being wanted.

In what world do cops SHOOT AT YOU and CHASE YOU and harass you when you have a mere petty crime equatable to tripping and bumping into a police officer on the street???

I'm sorry but what you're saying does not make even the smallest lick of sense to me.

In your situation, I have no idea why your bounty kept resetting to 7 days.

Because being scanned refreshes any dormant fines/bounties you have.

I agree that if a mechanic stops you playing then it's a poor mechanic, but having any bounty shouldn't really do that since there are lots of places to go play where you will be clean, and an 8 minute assault bounty definitely doesn't.
That said, typically this is a very consuming game, and breaks from it can be very healthy!

"It's fine, just don't play it" is the absolute worst way to address any kind of game issue....

 

[M00ka]

I think FD have done some tweaking. Last night I found a very profitable and busy HIGH REZ, continuous wanted Anaconda's, Clippers and the like with a lot of Federal Authority ships thrown in. Heck at one stage I counted 4 Fed Auth Ana's, each of the part of a wing of 3 or 4. As you can image there were some pretty impressive furballs gong on with multiple ships attacking each other in close proximity. I hit 5 Auth ships with my beam laser that I can remember, one of the Ana's when we both zigged at the same time, and the rest were the smaller Auth Eagles and Vipers. Yes I was in the wrong, call it the heat of battle and was fully expecting everything to go red and me becoming the most hunted pilot in that part of the 'Verse. But on each occasion all I got was the message 'Hey check your fire' (or similar). I am sure previously that would have resulted in a much worse scenario!

As for 'guilty by association' and 'shoot first, scan second' - strongly disagree. If the suspected target is that good that if you don't wait that 10 seconds for the initial scan to finishing because they will take you out, then they will still take you out if you scan or not. Damn I scan everyone I see, I use it for target prioritisation (which one has the best bounty, which faction etc). Hell I even take the time to do a complete CWS on them before I initiate attack. In regard to opening fire on the assumption of guilt, in some of those tussles last night I found myself flying next to and in a couple of instances helping wanted Commanders. So does that make me wanted because we were flying together to another bigger target?

I think the system is working fine, it only punishes if you screw up - as it should.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I think FD have done some tweaking. Last night I found a very profitable and busy HIGH REZ, continuous wanted Anaconda's, Clippers and the like with a lot of Federal Authority ships thrown in. Heck at one stage I counted 4 Fed Auth Ana's, each of the part of a wing of 3 or 4. As you can image there were some pretty impressive furballs gong on with multiple ships attacking each other in close proximity. I hit 5 Auth ships with my beam laser that I can remember, one of the Ana's when we both zigged at the same time, and the rest were the smaller Auth Eagles and Vipers. Yes I was in the wrong, call it the heat of battle and was fully expecting everything to go red and me becoming the most hunted pilot in that part of the 'Verse. But on each occasion all I got was the message 'Hey check your fire' (or similar). I am sure previously that would have resulted in a much worse scenario!

As for 'guilty by association' and 'shoot first, scan second' - strongly disagree. If the suspected target is that good that if you don't wait that 10 seconds for the initial scan to finishing because they will take you out, then they will still take you out if you scan or not. Damn I scan everyone I see, I use it for target prioritisation (which one has the best bounty, which faction etc). Hell I even take the time to do a complete CWS on them before I initiate attack. In regard to opening fire on the assumption of guilt, in some of those tussles last night I found myself flying next to and in a couple of instances helping wanted Commanders. So does that make me wanted because we were flying together to another bigger target?

I think the system is working fine, it only punishes if you screw up - as it should.

I would say context dependant. IF you are in a wing with them and one interdicts a ship .... And you drop into the same instance as the interdicted ship then yeah I would say you a guilty by association, which afaik is realistic.

Fighting alongside in a Res.... Is more complicated. You make a good point tho

 

[M00ka]

I would say context dependant. IF you are in a wing with them and one interdicts a ship .... And you drop into the same instance as the interdicted ship then yeah I would say you a guilty by association, which afaik is realistic.

Fighting alongside in a Res.... Is more complicated. You make a good point tho

Thanks Mike (I seem to be saying that a bit lately lol). Definitely a wing should all be rated the same as it criminality, after all they are working as a team right. Here is a good example of the fluidity of battle (and how it pays to check first). Last night in the HIGH REZ, between battles I saw some laser fire going on. Turned the ship around and headed towards it, about 4 or 5 KM away. There was a Python attacking an T6. Scanned the Python as I was heading in, he was clean, scanned the FAS and he had a low bounty of around 2,000 CR. Then I remembered the T6, only a few minutes ago I had scanned him and he was clean then (he had an unusual name that stuck in my head). Now going by what some here are suggestion, I should have been in the right to immediately go in guns blazing on Python because he was the aggressor. So yes, it does pay to scan and to sometimes wait a few seconds and things aren't always what they seem.

 

[Faded Glory]

If you've been reading this thread, that should be completely apparent by now? *NOT* instantly going into full hunt-me-down murder mode just because of a single friendly fire incident? That'd be a good start?

I've been reading the thread, thanks. And many others like it over the last two or three years... Never seen any indication from FD that they are going to let players shoot clean ships, accidentally or otherwise, and be able to carry on with no consequences.

I've also said, and maintain, if you are having a lot of friendly fire accidents and getting destroyed as a result, then IMO you are doing it wrong. It's easy, really easy to avoid destruction in such instances.

In what world do cops SHOOT AT YOU and CHASE YOU and harass you when you have a mere petty crime equatable to tripping and bumping into a police officer on the street???

I'm sorry but what you're saying does not make even the smallest lick of sense to me.

Lol. Tripping and bumping into a cop in the street. Right... Shooting them with a military class weapon more like.

They will chase you off, and if you can't get away, then as I said above, you are doing it wrong. No NPC bounty hunter will chase you for your 400 credit bounty for the 8 minutes it lasts.

Because being scanned refreshes any dormant fines/bounties you have.

He didn't say anything about his bounty being dormant, and if it were he would not be chased down by NPC bounty hunters for it. The only scan that will refresh a bounty that is dormant is from system authority from the faction that issued the original bounty, or committing another offense, neither of which were what the poster I was responding to was describing.

"It's fine, just don't play it" is the absolute worst way to address any kind of game issue....

When did I ever say it was a good solution? I have said often, an 8 minute 400 credit bounty is no reason whatever to stop playing.

 

[Chris Simon]

I think FD have done some tweaking. Last night I found a very profitable and busy HIGH REZ, continuous wanted Anaconda's, Clippers and the like with a lot of Federal Authority ships thrown in. Heck at one stage I counted 4 Fed Auth Ana's, each of the part of a wing of 3 or 4. As you can image there were some pretty impressive furballs gong on with multiple ships attacking each other in close proximity. I hit 5 Auth ships with my beam laser that I can remember, one of the Ana's when we both zigged at the same time, and the rest were the smaller Auth Eagles and Vipers. Yes I was in the wrong, call it the heat of battle and was fully expecting everything to go red and me becoming the most hunted pilot in that part of the 'Verse. But on each occasion all I got was the message 'Hey check your fire' (or similar). I am sure previously that would have resulted in a much worse scenario!

As for 'guilty by association' and 'shoot first, scan second' - strongly disagree. If the suspected target is that good that if you don't wait that 10 seconds for the initial scan to finishing because they will take you out, then they will still take you out if you scan or not. Damn I scan everyone I see, I use it for target prioritisation (which one has the best bounty, which faction etc). Hell I even take the time to do a complete CWS on them before I initiate attack. In regard to opening fire on the assumption of guilt, in some of those tussles last night I found myself flying next to and in a couple of instances helping wanted Commanders. So does that make me wanted because we were flying together to another bigger target?

I think the system is working fine, it only punishes if you screw up - as it should.

This is how it works for at least a year, now. A bit of damage - they let is slide or give you a warning message. Do it again and it's on.
The higher reputation you have with the controlling faction (to which security ships belong) the more "forgiving" they are when comes to friendly fire.

You have to either have REALLY strong weapons, or shoot them quite a few times to turn them against you immediately.

The trouble is that OP and several others in this thread didn't just "accidentally misfired", no, they kept blasting away and then accused the other ship of not moving away from their line of fire.