Modes Elite Dangerous PvE vs PvP and who needs a Solo play if you had PvE server

digitalblade

D
I am a PvP player.
I do not and never will apologize about it. Yes I would love to enjoy all other aspects of ED but the way I see the game, the only one thing that is fully developed are ship vs ship battles. That is the meat and bone of this game. Every other activity is only a filler for me personally. I do not enjoy holding a scan button down to become elite explorer I do not enjoy making rout A to B X times to become elite trader. What I enjoy is ship vs ship fights as they are the only fully well developed mechanic in the game. As the best opponents are others like me I want some way some reason and some benefits for us to meat and enter PvP activities or else the only thing that is left for me is to go after every possible random player in Open Play that makes no sense neither for me or my victim.

Please learn from what exists already if you want to ED to continue to claim the title of an MMO.
Every other MMO has both PvP and PvE or only PvP servers. Even games like Warframe that started like only co-op games created pvp arenas. ED arena is a stand alone game that is not the same game as elite dangerous and no one is playing it so do not refer that here ever.
ED's biggest mistake is that they have the open play that is the equivalent of PvP server or the only server in EvE online. I AGREE most of us do not play Eve because of that reason. But why have a Solo play option instead of PvE play where Commanders cannot attack each other? How hard was it to make that one thing that would have fixed every problem you meet now to defend people vs evil doers.
PvE players are spitting on us since we are ruining their game, while no one realize that the Solo play should have been just a PvE server and not that in Open play there should be 0 hostility in a game called Elite DANGEROUS.

My experience in ED vs every other game is that
I am forced to fight people that don't want it. I have 0 options for legitimate pvp play without negatives for training and I Get Zero benefits for doing anything PvP related. Major draw back is that everyone can just pull the plug and get out.

I repeat in elite dangerous all you have to do is pull the plug to get out ... How is that not an insult to every serious PvP player?

Last I have never killed anyone that have not shot at me back or was just trying to escape.
He is better to me alive and well but armed to the teeth next time we meat.
I just want to now what other PvP players are doing here not go in discussion what is right and who's to blame.

Commanders Please share your PvP Experience in Elite Dangerous.

Do you like the idea of PvE play instead of Solo play or as an extra alternative?
Do you want more ... I mean any PvP activities in the game?
What PvP activities do you do right now?

I am asking the community not the Developers there for this is not a future suggestion this is a discussion.

And remember commanders to fly safe, you must not only be Elite, but there has to also be Danger.
CMDR Jordan in Space
 

duckofdeath

duckofdeath
Solo requires a lot less bandwidth, which matters for some players. Solo is also the only mode (apart from solo private groups) where you're guaranteed PvE, as there is no PvE settings for the game.
Let's see what they come up with as a solution to all the demands and request in that 2018 update. I hope it will be a substantial re-boot from the ground up on BGS, ranks, credits, PvE design and so forth. Right now everything is just ridiculously inflated because of all of those patch-patches to the design flaws and exploits they've found over the years.
 

Allin

A
Solo requires a lot less bandwidth
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Emmm, no?

Entire month of playing (3-4 days a week 2-3 hours) on a prepaid 3G modem didn't even use up 500MB for me. Open and Private uses a lot more bandwith that can be easily seen with devtool under CTRL+B, and we're talking 10-100x more.

Unless you misspoke, that's very much not true at all.
 

Red Anders

Red Anders
ALGOMATIC said:
No need for PVE servers.

What needs to happen is strong C & P,
content for pvp, content for being outlaws, content for pirates, content for traders, content for high sec/anarchy.

Open mode only.
Click to expand...

You do realise that console players require a paid account in order to play in open, right?
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Personally, I suspect that creating an official PvE mode would pretty-much kill Open, stone-dead, and FDev don't want to be responsible for killing the persistent, multi-faceted, environment they were attempting to create.
Course, the fact that instancing already makes a pretty thorough job of that is something that is best left ignored.

Beyond that, I'm not sure about the whole "PvP is the core of ED" thing.
Speaking as somebody who remembers the original game, combat was only ever an obstacle to be overcome in the course of regular gameplay.
 

CMDR _BigJay_

C
Forced to fight people who don't want to fight? I dunno about that. I've only done PvP during the open betas, typically I am a PvE guy. In the beta I flew around near the "hot" system in a combat ship. I could tell by looking at loadouts and ship types who was going to interdict me. And they did, and we spar'd and when his canopy cracked he said GG and I said o7 and he jumped out. Later with another guy I ran out of ammo.. I said GG, he stopped shooting me and said GG. We both went back to the station, reloaded, and then went out and did it again. Like I said, I don't PvP much, but that went pretty much exactly how I would have expected it.

I DO think there should be a dedicated PvE mode. That's what I enjoy most in the game. I play in Mobius which is a nice large group and the admins there put a lot of work into creating a PvE environment for those of us that want it. FD could make a PvE open mode so much better than just playing in Mobius.

Since I joined Mobius I almost never play in Solo. But I don't think it should be taken away from those who want to play in Solo. Some people are just NOT social people at all.
 

Turd Ferguson

Turd Ferguson
Sometimes instancing gets glitchy especially around CGs and Solo is the only way to get play. Sometimes you go to a RES at a CG and there's so many players that a wanted NPC doesn't last 10 seconds and there's so many noobs around you're more likely to get shot accidentally than the wanted NPC.

Some people play games to get together with other people. Some people play games to get away from other people. Im glad Elite caters to both.
 

IndigoWyrd

IndigoWyrd
digitalblade said:
I am a PvP player.
I do not and never will apologize about it. Yes I would love to enjoy all other aspects of ED but the way I see the game, the only one thing that is fully developed are ship vs ship battles. That is the meat and bone of this game. Every other activity is only a filler for me personally. I do not enjoy holding a scan button down to become elite explorer I do not enjoy making rout A to B X times to become elite trader. What I enjoy is ship vs ship fights as they are the only fully well developed mechanic in the game. As the best opponents are others like me I want some way some reason and some benefits for us to meat and enter PvP activities or else the only thing that is left for me is to go after every possible random player in Open Play that makes no sense neither for me or my victim.
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Good for you. I'm glad you found something you enjoy. I do not enjoy it. PVP is incredibly dull to me, but I do not begrudge anyone from enjoying themselves, as long as they are respectful of others. For the most part, we know the capabilities of our ships. If you know you can one-shot anything smaller than a FdL with full-sized prismatic shields and engineered reactive plate, then there's no reason to prey on hapless Type-6's just trying to get by, and certainly no excuse for the attitudes portrayed by some PVP players. And the same shoe on the other foot - there is equally no excuse by the attitudes of some PVE players in regards to how others choose to play.

digitalblade said:
Please learn from what exists already if you want to ED to continue to claim the title of an MMO.
Every other MMO has both PvP and PvE or only PvP servers. Even games like Warframe that started like only co-op games created pvp arenas. ED arena is a stand alone game that is not the same game as elite dangerous and no one is playing it so do not refer that here ever.
ED's biggest mistake is that they have the open play that is the equivalent of PvP server or the only server in EvE online. I AGREE most of us do not play Eve because of that reason. But why have a Solo play option instead of PvE play where Commanders cannot attack each other? How hard was it to make that one thing that would have fixed every problem you meet now to defend people vs evil doers.
PvE players are spitting on us since we are ruining their game, while no one realize that the Solo play should have been just a PvE server and not that in Open play there should be 0 hostility in a game called Elite DANGEROUS.
Click to expand...

MMO only means Massive Multiplayer Online. A large number of people, online, playing the same game at the same time. PVP is NOT a requirement. CQC/Arena had a great deal of potential, but it was left by the wayside. It doesn't matter that it was a separate entity from the main game, that you couldn't import your 10,000 rolls per module over-engineered Federal Corvettes into it and simply sit there and fly-swat everything else that flew by. Finally, you were off to a good start, until you fixated on the otherwise meaningless title. "Elite: Dangerous" could have, and probably should have been called "Elite: Evolved". Then those like you could not fixate on a meaningless word in the title. --- respect.

digitalblade said:
My experience in ED vs every other game is that
I am forced to fight people that don't want it. I have 0 options for legitimate pvp play without negatives for training and I Get Zero benefits for doing anything PvP related. Major draw back is that everyone can just pull the plug and get out.

I repeat in elite dangerous all you have to do is pull the plug to get out ... How is that not an insult to every serious PvP player?
Click to expand...


Aside from you can do the same in nearly every other game out there? Yes, there are some that will hold an instance of your character or team as if they were active for a period of time and either AI control them or simply leave them standing there idle to be pummeled - often by Pay-to-Win players with large wallets and almost no skills. How is that not an insult to humanity? And "serious PVP player"? Really? I can't take any PVP seriously. It's just a game. Maybe you can click a mouse better than I - I can shoot a dime dead center from 200 yards with an iron sight. So what?

digitalblade said:
Last I have never killed anyone that have not shot at me back or was just trying to escape.
He is better to me alive and well but armed to the teeth next time we meat.
I just want to now what other PvP players are doing here not go in discussion what is right and who's to blame.

Commanders Please share your PvP Experience in Elite Dangerous.
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My grand total of PVP experience - I was accidentally fired on by another commander in a CZ who ceased when he realized I was not an NPC. No harm, no foul. He even followed me back to the station and offered some cargo to cover my repairs. I declined, as the damage was really superficial.

I had a commander ask me to clear his bounty. I obliged, KWS'd him and sent him on his way. Net 482.000 Cr.

I asked another commander to clear my own bounty once, and met with him in a shieldless sidewinder to be delivered to justice for my crimes - and to help that other commander make some extra credits.

In my own group we held a Stock Ship PVP contest - starting with stock Sidewinders and working our way up tp Viper 3's. We had fun, the costs were minimal, and I enjoyed playing broadcast announcer. I did not participate.

In the 2.3 and 2.4 betas I engaged in PVP as part of the testing process, because it's beta and it doesn't matter.

During the Thargoid CG my wingmate meant to restore my shields, only did not realize they had failed until I went poof. Oops, honest mistake.

And finally, once I logged in to Open due to inattention, and had another commander attempt to interdict me. I evaded. A short time later, he attempted to ram-scam me at the station I was heading towards. I boosted, he missed. I laughed and changed modes.

digitalblade said:
Do you like the idea of PvE play instead of Solo play or as an extra alternative?
Do you want more ... I mean any PvP activities in the game?
What PvP activities do you do right now?

I am asking the community not the Developers there for this is not a future suggestion this is a discussion.

And remember commanders to fly safe, you must not only be Elite, but there has to also be Danger.
CMDR Jordan in Space
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No, I don't like the idea.
I started the game in Solo so I could learn to fly in a straight line and fire my weapons without embarrassing myself in front of anyone else. It didn't take all that long of skimming though these forums to find there was a fairly toxic PVP community mixed with an equally caustic PVE community at odds with each other. I still return to Solo play on a regular basis, not because of anyone - or anyone in particular, but rather because, frankly, sometimes the internet connections of the people I meet in PG's and especially in Open are less than garbage. I recall one particular time I was trying to simply dock at a fairly busy station, requested docking, lined up my approach, centered myself over my assigned pad and .... was tractor-beamed back to around 7500m from the mailslot, not once, not twice, not even three or four, but five times. I logged out and back in under a PG, and landed without an issue. I regularly see ships in supercruise skipping across space like stones on rough water, have dropped into instances with three people, only to find one there, and two by themselves, or me by myself and the other three nowhere to be found. And it begs me to ask how many times some PVP player has cried themselves sick that their target combat logged on them, when in fact their target was simply sitting in a separate instance, wondering what just happened, and where that other ship might have gone. I'll count on that being the case more than once.

In short, Elite is barely suitable for one-on-one multiplayer at times, and largely dependent on the participants. I have a fantastic connection where I am - 120 x 60 tapped right off the fiber backbone for the city. I only play on a hardwire connection, as wireless is garbage for gaming, despite Elite being incredibly low bandwidth. It is still a Peer-to-Peer session. One of my regulars is located on nearly the exact opposite side of the world from me, and boasts a very similar 110 x 40 connection, but there are times when the "stuff" in between us makes the connection between us utter garbage. Not his fault, not my fault. But it has enough of an impact on our play that we sometimes just have to say "this isn't going to work tonight" and leave it at that.

As I said at the beginning, I don't have an issue with folks who want to PVP. It's largely meaningless as you've noticed, as there is no reward for it in-game. You don't even get to collect materials from the players you blow up. So before any further PVP activities could or even should be considered, the reason and reward for engaging in them should be considered first, fully fleshed out before the first line of code is scribbled on the back of a napkin, and then tested extensively internally for any and all possible exploits before it ever even goes into beta.

As for my own PVP activities - there is exactly one. I and my group race SRV's against each other. We don't normally touch weapons, though ramming is fully encouraged. We've also held SRV demolition derbies, fighter vs. fighter contests, and we play Interdiction Tag - a simple game - try to interdict the other people without being interdicted. Evade if you get caught and try to turn it around on someone else. It's fun, and no one loses much in the line of credits - a few SRV's, a few fighters, some minor repairs - often less than the selling price of a single cargo container.

I've even reached out to the PVP community here on a few occasions to invite others to participate, but have met with rejection or insults - how dare I ask someone to prove their piloting skills in a stock ship, equally matched against other stock ships. This speaks volumes to me about what is considered "skill", and I no longer open invitations to these events.

So I counter the question with one of my own - where is the incentive for me, someone with little to no interest in PVP - in how much damage I can squeeze out of every weapon system I have, and how many petajoules of shields with 90% resist to all forms of damage I might face, to want to be a willing participant in someone else's idea of fun?

You wonder what's in it for you, I wonder what's in it for me?
 
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Suvi Anwar

Suvi Anwar
Wouldn't need multiple modes if pvp was a consentual switch. if player had to flag themselves for pvp if they wanted it, that would make the social part of the game much MUCH better. The only reason I sit in a station in Open is to chat with other CMDRs.
 

Gunnet

G
"Do you like the idea of PvE play instead of Solo play or as an extra alternative?"
Very much so. As an extra, since there are definitely players who would still prefer to play in solo either way. The PvE playerbase is currently split between solo and many private groups, it would be great for everybody to be able to play together. It would also make room for the PvP mode to be tailored more to the preferences of those with an interest in PvP, in a way the shared space of open can never be.

"Do you want more ... I mean any PvP activities in the game?"
Sure. I'd like PvP players to have more content as well. I might even partake in some myself, depending how it turned out. It needs to not grant special rewards unobtainable through other activities though.

"What PvP activities do you do right now?"
None. I used to do some security and counter-piracy, but I lost the urge to continue once the engineer cheating was discovered.
 

Starwolfe

S
I don't bother with PvP mainly because its a waste of resources. If there was incentive to spending millions of credits on rebuy screens I'd change my mind, but until then PvP is not viable on its own.

The very handicap of PvP requires PvE to get credits and materials to do PvP, so to me that fact alone is an issue.

And lets not get into the glitch problems of spamming exploits to get credits for it...

They had an opportunity with the CQC stuff, but missed the mark in my opinion.

So why PvP? I can't see a reason.
 

digitalblade

D
First of all this thread is mainly to talk about the PvP element in Elite Dangerous that is a game that developers chose that name for and chose to define it as an MMO game.

IndigoWyrd said:
MMO only means Massive Multiplayer Online. A large number of people, online, playing the same game at the same time. PVP is NOT a requirement.
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I am asking you to point me to an MMO that you know of that does not have a PvP element to it. Even if you say PvP is not a requirement that is your personal opinion since you do not enjoy it. This thread is mainly for people that ENJOY PvP.

What I am asking you is to show me an example of an MMO game that has Zero PvP content Commander since you state that was not a requirement.

I am not saying Solo is a bad idea, but that I have the feeling a lot of PvE people that hate the Danger in Open Play (exactly the same like in every PvP server of every MMO), would like to have also a PvE server. Don't wary a PvE server will not kill Solo Play ... Solo play is basically a glorified single player and we all use it as we see fit.
 

digitalblade

D
wrmiller said:
"What PvP activities do you do in the game now?"

None, zero, zip, nadda.

If this game didn't have Solo and/or Mobius, I wouldn't touch it with a 20 meter cattle prod.
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That is exactly what I understand from most people here. But would you rather not have a Play Mode where you will meat other CMDRs in game but they are just not able to do any damage to you.

Yes I know the game is basically unplayable with other CMDR since they might get your targets before you but hey I am pretty sure if EDevs wanted they could make it so that the negatives of Multiple commanders in the same instance are removed.

Or would you rather have only the Single Player experience with no other commanders in your game?



Starwolfe said:
I don't bother with PvP mainly because its a waste of resources. If there was incentive to spending millions of credits on rebuy screens I'd change my mind, but until then PvP is not viable on its own.

The very handicap of PvP requires PvE to get credits and materials to do PvP, so to me that fact alone is an issue.
Click to expand...

Yes that is one of the main problems. That PvP gets you nothing but joy (if you like it it does yes), but no means to sustain your PvP activities. PvP is an extention of your PvE content, it is usually done from playerrs aftger they have done all PvE related content and got nothing else to do and generally enjoy competitive environment. It is not a new thing in Games and that is the reason why every other MMO supports it off the bat.

My other points for today are.

I give you 2 examples of possibilities.
1. In Standard MMOs (I am trying to use only space games, but all MMOs have the same basic rules) like Star Trek online PvP is not possible unless in PvP related activities that you quelle. You get points and goods to improve in your PvP related Activities.
2. In EvE online that only server is a like of ED Open Play (or the other way around ;). You have no specific PvP activities that I know of but you always have the benefits for engaging in a PvP battle. Since you revive goods from a defeated ship that are actually worth a lot. So no one in his right mind will attack a much lesser ship that is of no value to him. But in order for that to come in effect, there must be high value targets for PvP players in the first place. Right now there is only one Target, and that is the Zero Value every Target. Whether you attack a Type 6 or Anaconda or a Sidewinder the only difference is the challenge, but the Reword as always is Zero. If the reward would gradually like for example more and better Engineering modals from better and stronger Combat capable ships, then that would make you prioritize those targets. Yes yes you get better modals with bigger ships but what is the point going after a commander ship then going after any NPC ship = non.

If Elite Dangerous really wants to support PvP
they need to do something about it. If they decide PvP is not a part of Elite Dangerous. That it is simply and option taken at your own free will, not encourage, disrespected and highly punishable they need to make that clearer in the Official Game Description.
I repeat PvP is a big part of any MMO and in MMOs such as Warframe that were designed only as Co-Op MMOs. That was stated as a game play mechanic, so far ED only gives you the option for PvP but has Zero content for it.
I am trying to understand how do PvP players deal with this in the game and not to debate if PvP is bad or good and why you don't like PvP.

For the people that think that PvP players don't understand or like PvE play.
Do you really think PvP players play only PvP ??? Yes unless you lived under a rock and never played an other MMO you should know every PvP player is also a PvE player, or else how do you think we all reached the end game to PvP on the first place? We all also enjoyed and went throw every aspect of the PvE content. We just happened to prefer player vs player combat since we find it more interesting and enjoyable then the PvE content.

It's all a matter of opinion the question is is there a legitimate place and future for PvP in ED.
 
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JonesTheFilm

JonesTheFilm
Sorry, Solo mode is here to stay. FDev decided to release their game on two console formats both of which require an ongoing subscription for online multiplay. Many console players choose not to pay that subscription so removing solo mode would effectively stop those console users from playing Elite Dangerous. Cue backlash, refund demands, terrible publicity for FDev, etc, etc.
 
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