Star Citizen Discussions v7

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Only with 1st person, base building, actual server infrastructure rather than P2P, player created missions, no solo/private groups, variety of ground vehicles & a single player campaign...to mention just a few differences.

I could go on and on but the only real similarity between ED and SC is they are both "space games".

The partisanship in this thread is bordering on laughable.

A picture leeks of the 60 player server stress tests and its "photoshopped". Video proof arrives a few days later and its "10FPS".

Can people not just be happy that we will have more than one space game?

Maybe people could stop trying to discredit the entire dev team behind SC or at least stop resorting to lies to make their supposed point ?

No point is getting your armour on and stepping up to defend ED, i wont be checking back to see responses

I might not have looked close enough but I don't think leek was part of the stress test recipe.

 

[Azirphaeli]

I dont know about you personally but I am not giving CiG the benefit of the doubt anymore.

We all know that CIG can deliver so long as they completely control the assets, circumstances, users, and everything else. It's why their demos they give to journalists and show off at cons always initially look so good and seem to run well and be a real game.

It's no surprise that after ensuring each player only uses certain ships, meets in a certain place, and behaves in a certain way that they were able to make the network test succeed.

 

[milligna]

Maybe people could stop trying to discredit the entire dev team behind SC or at least stop resorting to lies to make their supposed point ?

Laughable to conflate criticizing the incompetence and buffoonery of Chris Roberts with "the entire dev team." The only people from CIG that routinely get criticized on these threads are CR and his pathetic community management/sales team. If anything, great sympathy and pity is aimed in the direction of good developers working for a terminal fool who has spent over half a decade undermining their hard work.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Only with 1st person, base building, actual server infrastructure rather than P2P, player created missions, no solo/private groups, variety of ground vehicles & a single player campaign...to mention just a few differences.

I could go on and on but the only real similarity between ED and SC is they are both "space games".

The partisanship in this thread is bordering on laughable.

A picture leeks of the 60 player server stress tests and its "photoshopped". Video proof arrives a few days later and its "10FPS".

Can people not just be happy that we will have more than one space game?

Maybe people could stop trying to discredit the entire dev team behind SC or at least stop resorting to lies to make their supposed point ?

No point is getting your armour on and stepping up to defend ED, i wont be checking back to see responses

I said it felt photoshopped, although I believed server test was real. Issue is way CIG handles Evocati testing - they leak something they are keen to leak. I find it a bit...meh.

Then I questioned actual usefuleness of test. It seems CIG will just stick bigger servers and will try to paint over their issue with their incredibly slow servers when they are full.

Only with 1st person, base building, actual server infrastructure rather than P2P, player created missions, no solo/private groups, variety of ground vehicles & a single player campaign...to mention just a few differences.

* Elite is also in first person, it even has avatar creator
* Base building - don't care, good for those people who like that idea. CIG hasn't really explained beyond fact they will add it to the game;
* Actual server infrastructure - ED has big server infrastructure, local combat is peer ot peer. There are big benefits of that, including running costs;
Also side note - SC players will be separated on servers; Don't expect united one shard arch any time soon, due of multiple reasons, including latency;
* Player created missions - that's not a thing and won't be a thing for long time;
* no solo/private groups - does having them is a bad thing?
* variety of ground vehicles - which do anything little to gameplay;

Yes, there are some promising things for SC but that's empty check till it is cashed in. Forgive us our skepticism, but CIG will have to release actual playable 3.0 before we can discuss it any futher.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

We all know that CIG can deliver so long as they completely control the assets, circumstances, users, and everything else. It's why their demos they give to journalists and show off at cons always initially look so good and seem to run well and be a real game.

It's no surprise that after ensuring each player only uses certain ships, meets in a certain place, and behaves in a certain way that they were able to make the network test succeed.

If network test goal was to show that a) yes, they can get bunch of players in one place after five years of development b) it is slide show as server gets fuller and c) there's not much ship activity as they don't allow it, then yes, it succeeded.

If judging from report about X patch, goal was clearly to prepare for 3.0 MVP release potentially this year so that might be one saving grace that saves CIG from backers going nuts about no delivery. Nothing much else.

 

[Red Anders]

And the interfaces on the terminals - sheesh. Why can't you just use Mobiglass to order stuff to be delivered from your ship? If you're there, I'd imagine they'd have some sort of "wireless interlinking of digital devices" in the future, so you could land, call up, and order it without having to get out of the ship, find a terminal and shlep back again.

Just going to point out that Privateer 2 had that over 20 years ago.

 

[DLewth]

I might not have looked close enough but I don't think leek was part of the stress test recipe.

Space Wales confirmed!

I'll get my coat.

 

[TenakaFurey]

But, if you're going for the BDSSE, don't you *want* full scale? You could lay out the (Earthlike) Horizon: Zero Dawn or Outerra procgen and cover Earth easily (As evidenced by those games). Travel times are down to the the arbitrary travel speed (Which IMHO is stupid in SC).

You could, but it's not necessary

I'm more concerned over whether the game will be FUN to play...not how accurate it is. Same with Elite. Immersion, IMO, comes more from sticking within the limits your universe defines rather than any real attempt at real life "realism"

The main issue here is CIGs own hype, which tends not to align with reality.

And yes - the travel time in SC is arbitrary, but there are reasons for it. You get into aspects such as game balance and PvP and the like. You don't, for example, want your enemies to be able to call in reinforcements from several systems away and get there almost instantaneously. Whether or not CIG have the "right" scale is another issue and depends on what you want from the game. Travel times also give the game time to load in the map....the city scape demo, for example, is reported to only load in a 10km by 10km square, loading in the rest as you approach. Which is pretty much a standard way to do things, even in ED, and is an approach SC fans swore was not what CR meant when he promised seamless travel.

Which is why you use procgen. Witcher + Skyrim's content wouldn't cover Ceres, never mind a single Earthlike planet. you can't for instance, handcraft London (which has has taken at least a trillion man-hours to design IRL): but you can approximate the feel of it.

I think CIG have just realised this.

CIG were NEVER going to be able to handcraft as much of the universe they indicated. Look at games like GTA V or the Witcher or Skyrim...it takes years to properly handcraft even a few square kms. CIG by necessity is going to have to procgen the vast majority of the ingame content. The absolute best that can be hoped for is that they are able to refine the routines to hide the procgen. Anyone thinking CIG can handcraft the majority of maps, of worlds or even anything more than a tiny fraction of the game content doesn't understand game development.

 

[frostypaw]

Only with 1st person, base building, actual server infrastructure rather than P2P, player created missions, no solo/private groups, variety of ground vehicles & a single player campaign...to mention just a few differences.

....

Can people not just be happy that we will have more than one space game?

Maybe people could stop trying to discredit the entire dev team behind SC or at least stop resorting to lies to make their supposed point?

Can people not just compare what games can actually do rather than fantasising about stuff they might do sometime in the future?

If you want to compare SC's concepts vs. the design discussion forum's concepts then that's fine - but if you're going to try and compare SC's concepts vs what ED has released you're gonna have a bad time. That's disingenuous and basically lying to make your supposed point.

If you can engage honestly i.e. what you can do now vs what you can do now, or concepts vs concepts then please - carry on, let's all engage and we'll do it happily - but so far this hasn't been the case and your post is just another in the line of "MY DREAM IS BETTER THAN YOUR CURRENT REALITY" posts which don't contribute anything.

We'll all be very happy to have more than one space game, we're just not happy to have fans of SC trying to rubbish ED with lies about what SC has actually got in it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Can people not just compare what games can actually do rather than fantasising about stuff they might do sometime in the future?

Not if you want to have a SC topic reach beyond one page.

 

[dayrth]

Maybe people could stop trying to discredit the entire dev team behind SC or at least stop resorting to lies to make their supposed point ?

Yes. I too wish CR would stop doing those things.

 

[DLewth]

You could, but it's not necessary

I'm more concerned over whether the game will be FUN to play...not how accurate it is. Same with Elite. Immersion, IMO, comes more from sticking within the limits your universe defines rather than any real attempt at real life "realism"

The main issue here is CIGs own hype, which tends not to align with reality.

And yes - the travel time in SC is arbitrary, but there are reasons for it. You get into aspects such as game balance and PvP and the like. You don't, for example, want your enemies to be able to call in reinforcements from several systems away and get there almost instantaneously. Whether or not CIG have the "right" scale is another issue and depends on what you want from the game. Travel times also give the game time to load in the map....the city scape demo, for example, is reported to only load in a 10km by 10km square, loading in the rest as you approach. Which is pretty much a standard way to do things, even in ED, and is an approach SC fans swore was not what CR meant when he promised seamless travel.



CIG were NEVER going to be able to handcraft as much of the universe they indicated. Look at games like GTA V or the Witcher or Skyrim...it takes years to properly handcraft even a few square kms. CIG by necessity is going to have to procgen the vast majority of the ingame content. The absolute best that can be hoped for is that they are able to refine the routines to hide the procgen. Anyone thinking CIG can handcraft the majority of maps, of worlds or even anything more than a tiny fraction of the game content doesn't understand game development.

We're mostly in agreement. My point was they can't claim to be a huper-realistic space sim if they're not actually going to simulate space. That doesn't automatically mean it can't be a fun game, but not the BDSSE...
Just grumbling over the refactoring of words, I guess. *proceeds to yell at cloud*.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

since there is no internal inertia simulation (and by ships behaviour I doubt even external), who needs magnets?
the boxes will stay in place anyway.

Except they won't. CIG has been quite clear that non-secured cargo will make a rather large mess if one is not careful.

 

[frostypaw]

Not if you want to have a SC topic reach beyond one page.

Hah indeed - though it's perfectly possible to discuss those topics when they're discussed as future plans, it's just not right when hopes are stated as facts as virtually every single Commando does.

Pretty much all of the "SC is better because it has XXX" posts cover future plans that ED also plans on having, so they're almost all pointless and the smug self-congratulatory stuff just falls flat on it's face - which I know you know but it appears we have a new commando who doesn't so just saying that for them really.

Except they won't. CIG has been quite clear that non-secured cargo will make a rather large mess if one is not careful.

Yet they've also been quite clear commandos will be able to run around their ship mid flight in local gravity so it won't be making a mess even if one is not careful.... despite the pilot blacking and redding out as if there isn't local gravity.

This is the kind of not-joined-up-thinking we keep pointing out and the commandos keep getting upset about and declaring us a den of FUD and Dereks on reddit.

It's not our fault these things don't add up - discuss it with CIG. We're just saying what's right in front of everyone's faces.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

Even no man's sky has now managed both multiplayer and base building.

Star Citizen has only managed to stabilize one of those features in highly controlled conditions.

SC is playing catch up to NMS. Let that sink in.

Have you PLAYED NMS' multiplayer? Claiming Multiplayer may be going a bit... far.

Unless you consider blue glowing blue chat balls multiplayer....

Yet they've also been quite clear commandos will be able to run around their ship mid flight in local gravity so it won't be making a mess even if one is not careful.... despite the pilot blacking and redding out as if there isn't local gravity.

This is the kind of not-joined-up-thinking we keep pointing out and the commandos keep getting upset about and declaring us a den of FUD and Dereks on reddit.

It's not our fault these things don't add up - discuss it with CIG. We're just saying what's right in front of everyone's faces.

Per lore, on ship people are wearing maglock boots and are in gravity areas.

As the non-gravity areas have yet to be added, we really don't know what is going to happen to said cargo or player characters.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

Can people not just compare what games can actually do rather than fantasising about stuff they might do sometime in the future?

If you want to compare SC's concepts vs. the design discussion forum's concepts then that's fine - but if you're going to try and compare SC's concepts vs what ED has released you're gonna have a bad time. That's disingenuous and basically lying to make your supposed point.

If you can engage honestly i.e. what you can do now vs what you can do now, or concepts vs concepts then please - carry on, let's all engage and we'll do it happily - but so far this hasn't been the case and your post is just another in the line of "MY DREAM IS BETTER THAN YOUR CURRENT REALITY" posts which don't contribute anything.

We'll all be very happy to have more than one space game, we're just not happy to have fans of SC trying to rubbish ED with lies about what SC has actually got in it.

Well currently SC does have MUCH better ships to walk around in and explore than ED does...

 

[Slopey]

Actually you can now, iPad Mini's are all over the place in the modern cockpit. Garmin makes several apps for example, for Navigation.

And they are becoming more and more prevalent as you can do most of your pre-flight planning and paperwork on the iPad and not have to worry much about it in the cockpit.

Airbus did a decent job with it: http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...fers-ipad-electronic-flight-bag-solution.html

They're not used to program the FMC though, the digital flight bag is for airport charts, performance calcs and en-route charts only (and the FMC does the performance calcs anyway).

Airline pilots don't do very much pre-flight planning, they fly the route given by ops. Us lowly PPLs have to do all the planning ourselves however, and yes, you can do it on an iPad, but you still need to pop it onto the Garmin in the cockpit manually if you want *it* (it being the linked autopilot) to fly it rather than you.

 

[frostypaw]

Well currently SC does have MUCH better ships to walk around in and explore than ED does...

Why are they "MUCH better"?

It has ships to walk around in I'll give you that. Explore.... not so much. Walk around once ok, but "explore" implies there's something interesting to do and there simply isn't. It's one walk around at the most.

Thank you for admitting the rest is just theorycrafting, that's a lot more than we normally get from the rabidly pro-SC. Once we see any evidence of these variable gravity areas on ships working then we can start worrying about cargo flying around, and what only having magboots will do to the bodies of those attached during high-G manoeuvres, but for now it's simply not a thing at all and boxes will stay exactly where they are put.

 

[McGlashan]

* Elite is also in first person, it even has avatar creator

That's a point, what happened to SC's character creator? Wasn't it imminent at one point? Like a lot of things.

As an aside, have you noticed how, when you google for SC-related information these days, all of the top links are worthless fan-made theorycrafting rubbish?

Spoiler

 

[Ian Skippy]

Except they won't. CIG has been quite clear that non-secured cargo will make a rather large mess if one is not careful.

CIG also made it quite clear that we would have a game in 2014, that Sq42 would be released in 2015, that SM was only a few weeks away, that 3.0 would be released dec 2016 but hopefully not the end of december etc. CR makes a lot of things quite clear. Unfortunately, the pile of crap called the PTU is also quite clearly garbage.

That's a point, what happened to SC's character creator? Wasn't it imminent at one point? Like a lot of things.

As an aside, have you noticed how, when you google for SC-related information these days, all of the top links are worthless fan-made theorycrafting rubbish?

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/b7ATjPN.png

Yup. Another thing that quite clearly isnt here yet. Like the female avatar. Or the worm. Or... ah well, everyone but Merlin gets it.