Modes Elite Dangerous PvE vs PvP and who needs a Solo play if you had PvE server

[Han Zulu]

Some interesting ideas there. Just add a small change to the menu to show what the last mode you logged into was and a text notice that you have active missions and logging into a different mode will wipe those missions. Or in the case of committing crimes, the other modes are locked and a text notice saying you can't log into other modes until the bounty is cleared.

Or maybe, why not do like many other games do, each mode is a different character, different career. Then we finally would have multiple "accounts" to play with. What you do in Solo stays in Solo, and what you do in Open stays in Open.

The only potential problem I can see is that the gameplay you're imagining is completely unfun for the people flying non-combat ships. Which would probably result in none of the PvP players being willing to take that role, because who wants to have a miserable time while everybody else has fun at your expense? That in turn would mean your objective here is to force the majority of players into being mere content for a relative handful of PvP players, with no regard whatsoever for their continued enjoyment of the game they paid for.

That's exactly the problem with an indiscriminate Open PvP against traders and miners. It's only fun for one side.

 

[Robert Maynard]

What you do in Solo stays in Solo, and what you do in Open stays in Open.

..... except, even if the CMDR could not change modes, their actions would still affect the BGS, etc., just as now - so what you do in a game mode would not stay in that game mode.

Plus the fact that mode mobility is as long standing a game feature as the single shared galaxy state and the three game modes themselves - one that I would not like to see changed.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

The reason for resistance is that combat will dictate gameplay. Now you like combat, so you are of course fine with that. I like exploration. So my counter proposal is that before anyone can deliver x to y 100 times, they will need to find an untagged ELW for each time they could deliver x. Then Powerplay factions could contact explorers to deliver their ELW data to their faction. So much RP, very collaboration.

PP doesnt have an exploration role today AFAIK, but I have no issues with it being part of the big picture. Maybe would be researching of other systems to expand into etc, not sure what FDEV can introduce here, even mining should be included, if you like mining it should help the local economy and affect the strength of the controlled system.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Ignoring the instancing hurdles to making that kind of gameplay work, why don't all the PvP players get together and make it happen right now? You could take turns hauling cargo. A good time would be had by all, and everybody gets to play their way.

The only potential problem I can see is that the gameplay you're imagining is completely unfun for the people flying non-combat ships. Which would probably result in none of the PvP players being willing to take that role, because who wants to have a miserable time while everybody else has fun at your expense? That in turn would mean your objective here is to force the majority of players into being mere content for a relative handful of PvP players, with no regard whatsoever for their continued enjoyment of the game they paid for.

Why is it not fun? they are playing the trader role, they are supposed to be protected by a combat wing, its not about meaninglessly ganking them, finally there is a reason for murder, and people wont cry over this.
Again, this is just related to PP, nothing else gets affected, you want to work the BGS in solo? nothing will change there. I am talking strictly about PP only.

 

[Han Zulu]

Why is it not fun? they are playing the trader role, they are supposed to be protected by a combat wing, its not about meaninglessly ganking them, finally there is a reason for murder, and people wont cry over this.
Again, this is just related to PP, nothing else gets affected, you want to work the BGS in solo? nothing will change there. I am talking strictly about PP only.

A protection wing would be really nice, but it doesn't seem to be very effective. Wasn't there like 3,000 players out to protect Salome and still she was killed by one pilot, or did I get that wrong?

 

[Jockey79]

....Wasn't there like 3,000 players out to protect Salome and still she was killed by one pilot, or did I get that wrong?

I wish I could rep you more than once for this remark.
Glad I wasn't drinking my tea, it'd have been all over my screen

 

[ALGOMATIC]

A protection wing would be really nice, but it doesn't seem to be very effective. Wasn't there like 3,000 players out to protect Salome and still she was killed by one pilot, or did I get that wrong?

Salome was killed by her protectors.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Or maybe, why not do like many other games do, each mode is a different character, different career. Then we finally would have multiple "accounts" to play with. What you do in Solo stays in Solo, and what you do in Open stays in Open.

Then I, and i'm sure many others, would never ever play in Open. Also, you missed PGs. Hope they can be clumped together with solo! Sometimes i need solo, sometimes i need PG. Very rarely i need open and its nice to have the option. But hey, if it required a different save, i'd say bye bye to it.

Kind of would also kill initiatives like this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/383670-Can-we-get-more-players-into-Open-Play

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Why is it not fun? they are playing the trader role, they are supposed to be protected by a combat wing, its not about meaninglessly ganking them, finally there is a reason for murder, and people wont cry over this.
Again, this is just related to PP, nothing else gets affected, you want to work the BGS in solo? nothing will change there. I am talking strictly about PP only.

Escort wings sound nice in theory, but a number of problems:

1) People have to have friends or people willing to wing with them to protect them. Not always possible, especially for people who have limited play time and don't have time to organize protection, they may have 30 mins to make a run before having to do something in RL.

2) A gankmobile can kill a trade ship in seconds. By the time the wing drops in, the trader can be deader than a dead thing anyway.

3) It might not just be tricky finding someone willing to be the trader. Finding people willing to babysit a trade ship might be an issue anyway. Who wants to sit and babysit a trader on the off-chance they will face some player opposition? They might spend the whole evening sitting in SC back and forth and not a single interdiction.

 

[Eidolon]

I wish I could rep you more than once for this remark.
Glad I wasn't drinking my tea, it'd have been all over my screen

Got you covered Jockey, Took me a while to clean coffee of my desk

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Escort wings sound nice in theory, but a number of problems:

1) People have to have friends or people willing to wing with them to protect them. Not always possible, especially for people who have limited play time and don't have time to organize protection, they may have 30 mins to make a run before having to do something in RL.

2) A gankmobile can kill a trade ship in seconds. By the time the wing drops in, the trader can be deader than a dead thing anyway.

3) It might not just be tricky finding someone willing to be the trader. Finding people willing to babysit a trade ship might be an issue anyway. Who wants to sit and babysit a trader on the off-chance they will face some player opposition? They might spend the whole evening sitting in SC back and forth and not a single interdiction.

1) So they wont participate, or they wont have a protection, or they might take a different role if they have no time. Its only one area of the game that will finally give reason for cooperative multiplayer game play to exist in ED. Its not for everyone, nothing wrong with this.

2)True, so the combat ships should interdict and kill an unknown combat ship. Those are strategic issues and part of the game play is to resolve them.

3)That depends on how the whole PP plays out, if it doesnt have enough participants, yes, you will see alot of empty space (btw thats the situation right now anyway). The idea is to have team play involved, its traders and fighters all playing for the same cause. I will say the dreaded word, but some ideas from Eve are very fitting into PP in ED. The rest of the game remains untouched, but PP should be a complete overhaul of what it is today.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

1) So they wont participate, or they wont have a protection, or they might take a different role if they have no time. Its only one area of the game that will finally give reason for cooperative multiplayer game play to exist in ED. Its not for everyone, nothing wrong with this.

2)True, so the combat ships should interdict and kill an unknown combat ship. Those are strategic issues and part of the game play is to resolve them.

3)That depends on how the whole PP plays out, if it doesnt have enough participants, yes, you will see alot of empty space (btw thats the situation right now anyway). The idea is to have team play involved, its traders and fighters all playing for the same cause. I will say the dreaded word, but some ideas from Eve are very fitting into PP in ED. The rest of the game remains untouched, but PP should be a complete overhaul of what it is today.

Ok, not bad, but point 1 effecitvely blocks a lot of players from PP. There are probably more people than you realize who play ED who don't have time to coordiate wing play. I try and play an hour a day or more if possible, and its rare i find time to wing up. Just organizing it can take 15 minutes or more, not to mention possible issues with instancing (although i've not had much trouble with that myself).

Your point about 2 is valid, assuming the wing spots them before they can interdict the trade ship.

Point 3 - well, that's the big question. My suspicion is though, with what you want, you're not going to see more people playing PP in open or any mode. But let's assume you do get a few more in open overall because they want the competition. But with the PvP that is going on, a lot less fortification is going to get done. A hell of a lot less. Especially if you have only 1 person in 4 doing the deliveries (although in theory, you can have 1 doing bulk, and the other 3 with say 8t or 16t of cargo space, if a PvP build can spare that. You're not going to get rank 5 though doing that.

My suspicion is after the first weekly tick, every faction is going to be suffering. No expansions, no preparation, and most systems not fully fortified. There will be a massive CC debt.

This will go on, week on week, until the players can contribute enough to fortify existing systems... and then be stuck, because they are not going to have time to spare to prep and expand.

By this point, i'm even willing to bet that the powers are not even touching each other, not even having contesting systems, although i most definitely could be wrong on that. Without conflicting systems, then you have no PvP anyway.

Ill accept that i might have some things wrong here, but just going off what i understand of PP and my estimate of how many people will PP and how effective they will be.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Ok, not bad, but point 1 effecitvely blocks a lot of players from PP. There are probably more people than you realize who play ED who don't have time to coordiate wing play. I try and play an hour a day or more if possible, and its rare i find time to wing up. Just organizing it can take 15 minutes or more, not to mention possible issues with instancing (although i've not had much trouble with that myself).

Your point about 2 is valid, assuming the wing spots them before they can interdict the trade ship.

Point 3 - well, that's the big question. My suspicion is though, with what you want, you're not going to see more people playing PP in open or any mode. But let's assume you do get a few more in open overall because they want the competition. But with the PvP that is going on, a lot less fortification is going to get done. A hell of a lot less. Especially if you have only 1 person in 4 doing the deliveries (although in theory, you can have 1 doing bulk, and the other 3 with say 8t or 16t of cargo space, if a PvP build can spare that. You're not going to get rank 5 though doing that.

My suspicion is after the first weekly tick, every faction is going to be suffering. No expansions, no preparation, and most systems not fully fortified. There will be a massive CC debt.

This will go on, week on week, until the players can contribute enough to fortify existing systems... and then be stuck, because they are not going to have time to spare to prep and expand.

By this point, i'm even willing to bet that the powers are not even touching each other, not even having contesting systems, although i most definitely could be wrong on that. Without conflicting systems, then you have no PvP anyway.

Ill accept that i might have some things wrong here, but just going off what i understand of PP and my estimate of how many people will PP and how effective they will be.

Sure, it might pan out like this, which will mean that FDEV have to change how PP works, maybe minimize the numbers a bit to make more engaging game play, if they see that it takes 20hrs per week to reach rank 5, and not many bother with it, they should adjust it accordingly.

 

[Han Zulu]

Salome was killed by her protectors.

Only by one. Not protectors in plural, but a single one of the players, and we know who it was as well.

But let's say that the threat then is from the protectors, so having a protector wing that will kill the trader. Then what? It still doesn't work. Having a protector wing doesn't help a single bit, not even when they're 3000 of them. It only takes one of them or one single enemy. That's how unbalanced it is. One ship, with just a little firepower, can take out a defenseless pilot, even if he/she has protection from thousands.

The problem here is that the protection system from wings isn't working too great. It needs to be improved, then it would be useful.

 

[Stigbob]

Salome was killed by her protectors.

Salome was killed by a cheat flying an exploited ship packed to the gunwales with exploited modules, it wasn't legit and should be ignored.

 

[Han Zulu]

Salome was killed by a cheat flying an exploited ship packed to the gunwales with exploited modules, it wasn't legit and should be ignored.

And yet I heard that players consider this the most exciting and amazing game event in 20 years... And somehow it proves how great Open mode is... ???

To me, it shows how skewed ED is in favor of combat. The new C&P is much needed to balance it out.

What's needed is a way of hiring protection. For 10% of my profit, you guys are hired to protect me.

But it also requires a better way for the wing to drop in when the trader is interdicted.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

And yet I heard that players consider this the most exciting and amazing game event in 20 years

As much as a fan of ED i am, i can't believe anyone actually said that (well, possibly someone did, i just can't believe it). Unless they have had a very boring 20 years of gaming. There again, i did pretty much ignore the whole Salome thing. It didn't take much in the way of prophetic skills to know what was going to happen.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Sure, it might pan out like this, which will mean that FDEV have to change how PP works, maybe minimize the numbers a bit to make more engaging game play, if they see that it takes 20hrs per week to reach rank 5, and not many bother with it, they should adjust it accordingly.

Indeed. A lot would have to change to make it viable for what you want. I think this is pretty much the crux of the issue.

The problem here is that the protection system from wings isn't working too great. It needs to be improved, then it would be useful.

There definitely are some issues with the whole balance in that a combat ship can take out a trader in seconds, even one that is armoured. I know of Rinzler's video on git gud at trading, but that's skilled people doing what they know. Even with a good rinzler approved build, most people will be space jelly regardless.

 

[Stigbob]

As much as a fan of ED i am, i can't believe anyone actually said that (well, possibly someone did, i just can't believe it). Unless they have had a very boring 20 years of gaming. There again, i did pretty much ignore the whole Salome thing. It didn't take much in the way of prophetic skills to know what was going to happen.

Yep, all the naughty 5-1 stuff aside. If you really wanted to be betrayed to push the story in the direction you liked, then Harry is your safest bet.

 

[Han Zulu]

As much as a fan of ED i am, i can't believe anyone actually said that (well, possibly someone did, i just can't believe it). Unless they have had a very boring 20 years of gaming. There again, i did pretty much ignore the whole Salome thing. It didn't take much in the way of prophetic skills to know what was going to happen.

Yeah. I was told in another thread, similar discussion as this one (or was it earlier in this one, not sure). I said the Salome event was a disappointment and not a good example of how great Open is, and I was immediately corrected by a couple of players who said it was the most amazing thing ever. One said it was the best event in 20 years of gaming.

I rather think the event proves how messed up and flawed Open is, not how great it is.