Elite Dangerous is the Largest Empty Sandbox Ever Made
- Thread starter Cosmo
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Im not playing the game anymore since 3 weeks, but visiting the forum for news, 2.4 dev, etc. Waiting for real non combat content, so a loong way. Just here to support Cosmo in the thread because this forum is not que community representation at all. A lot of poeple like, bored of lack of content (sand) don´t enter the forum, so this forum is now full of white knights (fanboys, whatever...). You just have to visit some threads and you will realise they are all the same people repeating this game is good and bring them whatever they need. That is more toxic to the game than the ranting people, because devs just read this forum (if they do) and thinks game is good enough for a lot of people, and they don´t know that a lot of players aren´t even in the forum (or in the game right now like me).
I dont like ranting threads, but I think that this game could be better with more critic oppinions and less "you dont like the content?? go away, I like it!!" answers. There are a lot of commanders adding ideas and a lot more liking that ideas, so devs just have to listen, and not adding a "focus on narrative patch" with no narrative, no focus at all, and just a few ships to pew pew.
But this is not my war since I left the game, so good luck for the players in game, but this is not for me anymore. (And I´m a lifetimepass owner... so sad of my wasted money since they are making dinosaurs with it)
I dont like ranting threads, but I think that this game could be better with more critic oppinions and less "you dont like the content?? go away, I like it!!" answers. There are a lot of commanders adding ideas and a lot more liking that ideas, so devs just have to listen, and not adding a "focus on narrative patch" with no narrative, no focus at all, and just a few ships to pew pew.
But this is not my war since I left the game, so good luck for the players in game, but this is not for me anymore. (And I´m a lifetimepass owner... so sad of my wasted money since they are making dinosaurs with it)
Much like real life: work or not, eat, sleep, occasionally vote or not. What ever really changes?
![[VR] Frank_G](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/59/59394.jpg?1553527111){kind=avatar}
I just love the game. Really. There are some downsides, some things i'd like to see implemented in adifferent way and things i'd like to see in the game in general, but hey... i am still flying a spaceship and we get more things done like we want them in the future, thanks to the new feedback thread, besides new content with every update. Why jump on the old train again? It goes nowhere.
Dale's response just sounds like PR-man guff to me. If FD were going to listen to feedback they would of heard the forum begging them not to make Thargoids just re-skinned USS and CG's, but they just ploughed on with the same old gameplay elements and are now wondering why people are irate...
This+1.
For any state & government the players should be able to tell what going on and who's running the show.
communist state => what about propaganda holograms instead of ads ? Where are the social realism style stations with ludicrous plastcrete statues ?
corporate gov => where are the shiny black dolphins for vips' luxury hostels and just-at-the poverty line prefab towns ?
This should extend in the system too, with stuff like luxury golf and spa stations in corp systems, royal garden station in monarchies and so on...
In short : show a living galaxy, not an undead one
And Dave response is soo... rolf.
Finger in the ear screaming : everything is fine ! nothing to see ! we're doing what we planed and it's glorious ! stats from player activities are good !
You know what stats of players activities don't show : players that do not play
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Le sigh.
Yea, le sigh is what I gave when we got the first NHSS and CG...
I think its worth considering what Frontier have done well and whats not so good and then asking ourselves are they able to raise the weaker areas of the game up to the standard where its really good. When it comes to the game, the visuals, the environments, the vistas, the meshes, art, immersion, flight model, audio.. are all top notch.
When it comes to the gameplay, I'm referring to missions, space trucking, simplistic 'exploration' mechanics, the grind, the rng, the rng grind, the predictable and monotonous procedurally generated planet side content, the scripted one dimensional 'economy', the lack of anything meaningful to do on planets or in space other than go to the RES or similar theme park areas or set pieces, etc... A lot of it is all too generic and tedious after a short time.
If Frontier could raise the standard of the gameplay to that of the rest of the game I'd be more than happy to focus upon that. I think we have to be realistic though. Whether its from a lack of ability, resources, or perhaps its just not technically possible then what do you think the result would be if they just continue on the same path?
Aside from the Aliens almost all of the interesting stuff that goes on in game is player created despite the obvious restrictions. From racing, to political tension created by group and player rivalries, exploration expeditions, fuel rats, organised and asymmetric PvP. In my opinion its way more fun and dynamic than grinding away at the background sim or scripted stuff the gameplay FD have produced.
So with a bucket, spade and some sand I think we the players would have endless more opportunities to create our own fun which would compliment the stuff FD produce. There is a rather large galaxy and so we could have fun filling it if we desired.
I frequently see the old 'this is not EvE' mantra and I'm not interested in playing a spreadsheet either but there are some solid things about that game which if implemented well could unshackle ED and allow it to reach its potential. In a way I think FD have restricted themselves and stunted the game because of a certain ideology.
But hey if folks are happy repeating the same old 'community goals' each week, shooting at bots in a RES and honking, with a bit of ascii text for reference and just want to jump around taking pretty pictures all day long then fine.. Its just something I and many others are really bored of. Perhaps the game can survive just plodding on always taking the same road but I at least have lost interest.
Its true I've had fun out of ED but its a real shame to see it fall short when it could be legendary.. I want to enjoy the game but it just doesn't have much appeal anymore if only because I've grown tired of always waiting on the next update..
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verminstar
Banned
This is still ongoing? Cool...and of course its descended into the old adages of not wanting another eve clone. This might be somewhat difficult to hear but eve is 16 years old which means its certainly done some things right, whereas elite is 3 or 4 years old and appears to be going through a development crisis and playerbase rebellion.
Based on what we have right now, does anyone really believe elite will last 16 years with an active playerbase? A few will certainly, but realistically...without the fanboism...think about it.
If ye dont think it will last that long then obviously eve has done something right whereas elite is doing something wrong...ergo why people constantly compare the two games even though they are fundamentally different.
I dont want an eve clone either even though I played it fer a shade under 8 years...I came to elite to play elite, not a clone of another game and certainly not a reskinned clone of an earlier frontier game. I would expect to see new things never previously seen in any frontier game because without new things, a reskinned clone is exactly what this game is. And thats just not cool no matter what argument ye throw at it.
That being said, some mechanics in eve would work well here...with some modification obviously to make it unique to this game. Carriers fer example are not unique to this game...they have existed fer over a decade in other games and have been used extensively in eve among others. Obviously there will be a twist that means frontiers carriers are unique to frontier games but that still doesnt take away from the fact that the idea came from another game in the first place. Crime and punishment being another...anarchy is basically the same as low sec and nullsec space in eve and eve has had concorde as the cops and extremely effective they are too...I can confirm their effectiveness being one the few who did stand against them in the past...and died horribly and quickly.
Ah but elite doesnt have anything like concorde...so how has that worked out so far? No...complaints...ever...hahahaha
Not all ideas from othe games are a bad idea...some are very much so but when we try and suggest mechanics from other games, can we not keep a more open mind about modifying the idea to work here? Going all anti eve and anti everything else just causes more issues than it solves...its not even remotely helpful and suggests yer a hardline elitist who simply refuses to adapt to the 21st century.
I follow these threads mostly not commenting at all, just to see the direction and flow of the debate. Agree or disagree, I really dont care...Ill save the fun sarcasm fer threads that are actually fun and sarcastic...thats my sixpence ^
Based on what we have right now, does anyone really believe elite will last 16 years with an active playerbase? A few will certainly, but realistically...without the fanboism...think about it.
If ye dont think it will last that long then obviously eve has done something right whereas elite is doing something wrong...ergo why people constantly compare the two games even though they are fundamentally different.
I dont want an eve clone either even though I played it fer a shade under 8 years...I came to elite to play elite, not a clone of another game and certainly not a reskinned clone of an earlier frontier game. I would expect to see new things never previously seen in any frontier game because without new things, a reskinned clone is exactly what this game is. And thats just not cool no matter what argument ye throw at it.
That being said, some mechanics in eve would work well here...with some modification obviously to make it unique to this game. Carriers fer example are not unique to this game...they have existed fer over a decade in other games and have been used extensively in eve among others. Obviously there will be a twist that means frontiers carriers are unique to frontier games but that still doesnt take away from the fact that the idea came from another game in the first place. Crime and punishment being another...anarchy is basically the same as low sec and nullsec space in eve and eve has had concorde as the cops and extremely effective they are too...I can confirm their effectiveness being one the few who did stand against them in the past...and died horribly and quickly.
Ah but elite doesnt have anything like concorde...so how has that worked out so far? No...complaints...ever...hahahaha
Not all ideas from othe games are a bad idea...some are very much so but when we try and suggest mechanics from other games, can we not keep a more open mind about modifying the idea to work here? Going all anti eve and anti everything else just causes more issues than it solves...its not even remotely helpful and suggests yer a hardline elitist who simply refuses to adapt to the 21st century.
I follow these threads mostly not commenting at all, just to see the direction and flow of the debate. Agree or disagree, I really dont care...Ill save the fun sarcasm fer threads that are actually fun and sarcastic...thats my sixpence ^
This+1.
For any state & government the players should be able to tell what going on and who's running the show.
communist state => what about propaganda holograms instead of ads ? Where are the social realism style stations with ludicrous plastcrete statues ?
corporate gov => where are the shiny black dolphins for vips' luxury hostels and just-at-the poverty line prefab towns ?
This should extend in the system too, with stuff like luxury golf and spa stations in corp systems, royal garden station in monarchies and so on...
In short : show a living galaxy, not an undead one
Exactly.
I'd love to see a station being upgraded.. perhaps a mix of say Industrial and Tourist? Showing the transition of the station to the new owner type, or whatever.
Even better; perhaps the outside of the station can change too.. have half built pylons and what not, or perhaps see a Coriolis' rugged outside being converted to something luxurious to reflect the wealth of the system.. the builds on the outside of the station could be changed to look more wealthier.. or perhaps replace the cities with domed farmland, or processing plants..
Yes, in short.. a living galaxy, lol.
I'm sure Frontier have some.
But since they're not sharing - and why should they - there are proxy measures available to players which can be used.Station traffic reports: hard to collect in bulk [1] - but can be tracked and compared over time for particular systems.
EDDN FSDJump events: measure the same thing as traffic reports, but only from people using an appropriate tool (so PC only). However, much easier to keep track of automatically.
Nevertheless, the ratios can be compared: it looks like about 5% of the jumps on the traffic report are also logged on EDDN, when considering populated systems.
The overall pattern since 2.4 has been fairly constant, and using the 5% ratio would work out at about 400,000 jumps on weekdays and 600,000 jumps on weekends - to populated systems [2].
Depending on the assumptions you make about
- how many jumps the average player makes a day
- how many days an active player logs in each week/month
- what the populated/unpopulated activity ratio is
would give different conversion rates between jumps and active players...
...but that can be someone else's job. I collect the data mainly to watch people migrate about the bubble in response to in-game things: that it can give a very rough estimate of player numbers is a side-effect.
[1] For BGS-related purposes I have asked before if these could be included in the Journal, which would allow a range of new 3rd-party apps to develop ... but it's understandably not been a priority for Frontier yet.
[2] I suspect the ratio for unpopulated systems is higher than 5% as explorers have more use for these tools, so I don't want to try generalising.
I'm curious how these feedback sessions will influence the developers decisions.
The dda for sure didn't.
The following are my thoughts only!!!!
I seem to remember reading 'somewhere' that the way the players play there game isn't exactly how David Braben envisaged it. From what I can remember he thought that as soon as a new player gets their first upgrade from the free Sidewinder they all would immediately head out of the bubble to all points on the 3D compass. Hence why there was never any intention to have player owned bases or even an 'apartment' for a player on a station, DB thought everyone would be heading out to the edge of the galaxy and not staying put in their starter system (or nearby) and therefore would never need a 'home'.
This might help explain why the current roadmap (and DB's vision) is seemingly so out of whack with what some in the community want.
I seem to remember reading 'somewhere' that the way the players play there game isn't exactly how David Braben envisaged it. From what I can remember he thought that as soon as a new player gets their first upgrade from the free Sidewinder they all would immediately head out of the bubble to all points on the 3D compass. Hence why there was never any intention to have player owned bases or even an 'apartment' for a player on a station, DB thought everyone would be heading out to the edge of the galaxy and not staying put in their starter system (or nearby) and therefore would never need a 'home'.
This might help explain why the current roadmap (and DB's vision) is seemingly so out of whack with what some in the community want.
Here's the funny thing: If I wanted a PvP executive control game, I would be playing EVE. I prefer Single player games for that kind of gameplay, because it means I can save and realistically expect that the situation won't change if I'm unable to log into my Computer for a gaming session for several days. Inhave Rome: Total War (haven't liked the later games in the franchise), Civilization 5, and Stellaris to scratch that particular itch.
If I want a building game, single player games are my choice of venue as well. I'm currently devoting some game time to Subnautica and Stonehearth, and I've been playing Minecraft and Kerbal Space Program. I'm well covered in that department as well.
I want Elite to continue doing what it's already doing: Adding more flesh to the world that Elite and it's sequals created. It's why I backed the game, and why I play the game. I've been waiting fir the next generation of the Elite franchise for some time, and I want to continue the gameplay I enjoyed from previous versions, only with greater depth thanks to modern information technology.
I've gotten what I wanted in spades, plus some stuff I didn't expect to get, let alone like.
I didn't expect to enjoy playing in Open. Having played Ultime Online from the beginning, I knew what a problem GSPers could be if not properly controlled. As expected, since Frontier failed to implement the second tier of their C&P system, which was to deal with this specific problem, Open has become a desert.
But that's alright, because between the size of the game Universe, the ability to create a blockade runner, and finding out I really enjoy the Supercruise flight model, I know I have nothing to fear from a GSPer. Plus I admit that it's a bit comforting to know that I can bring my stuff with me, should the GSPing level change from rare interruption to annoying interruption. The former adds spice to the game, because the threat keeps me alert. The latter is just annoying, because the "content" they provide is so poor, NPCs are more fun than they are.
There are four areas I want Frontier to focus on at this time:
- BGS - I really like the BGS, it's my favorite part of the game. It could be a lot better, especially where interfaction relations are concerned. Currently, there are no traditional friends and enemies between factions, so you can work with any faction with impunity. I play an Imperial agent in this game, and I consider it a bit absurd that I can collude with brave freedom fighters to oust the Federation from a system, and still be considered a friend or ally of the Federation. I also would't mind restoring the level of player influence on the economic part of the BGS to its first iteration.
- Exploration - Not enough variety to suit my tastes. Not enough tools, and the gameplay associated with those tools is lackluster. I can fit everything you NEED to explore on a Hauler, with a bay left over for something non critical. The only active exploration tool in the game is the SRV wave scanner, and it's used for material gathering, nit exploration data gathering. What a waste.
- Atmospheric Landing - Don't expect landing on life bearing worlds at this time, given how much work would be required, but I would like have more variety when it comes to destinations, with the accompanying new skills to learn if one wants to travel fast.
- Powerplay -I'm currently not pledged to the Power I support due to the lack of variety in earning merits. I don't like ABA cargo runs, nor do I like combat farming, so I'm left with BGS manipulation, ensuring that governments favorable to my chosen Power are in place. If I could fortify, undermine, or prepare systems via the mission board, with a wide variety of different missions to perform, I would repledge in a heartbeat. Love the concept. Don't enjoy the execution.
There's quite a bit more on my "wish list," needless to say, but I'm in no hurry for it. Frontier has a lot in its plate already, and this is a game I intend to play for many years to come.
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To be fair, if I'm reading your reply right, he does have a point. There was a time when some people said "if the Thagoids show up and they are just re-skinned USSs I'm going to be mighty peeved" and there were a good number of posters who said "no no they won't do that".
I followed Ed in my Vulture in the live steam in VR for the announcement of 2.4 with the Fed capital ship wreck and I thought, "okay... this is cool (it was really creepy in VR) and could go either way here...". When I realised that that was the end of the live steam and all they were giving us was re-skinned USS's that was actually the first time (edit - I lied I had bad feelings after MC) when I thought to myself, "if this is going to be the direction then yes, the game is going to stagnate and never really bloom, possibly even die a slow death".
Now I'm not doom calling, I don't think the game is going to die but I have to admit, I had bad feelings about it at that point.
And people wonder why FD aren't more involved in the forums - well there is your answer. Even when someone from FD gets involved in a topic and gives honest feedback, there will still be some here who will dismiss what they say out of hand - normally in a very condescending way!
I'm sorry, but that really is a very lame reason to not engage in the forums. The feedback from that post has been very good, from myself included. One post pointing out that they didn't listen over re-skinned USSs is really not a decent reason to stay away, I mean I'm sorry mate but that really is just silly.
'Actions speak louder than words' as the old saying goes, they keep saying their listening then delivering content that is below par and has many problems that were already pointed out on the forums.( multi-crew for example ) , how many times do they say they're listening but implement poor design? How long do we keep giving the benefit of the doubt? I ran out after rngineers and multi-pew...
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