Fair point, if Goid related stuff was their motivation Obsidian would have been their first target i guess.
I realy curious how all this will turn out.
I wouldnt be suprised if the Thargoids lack any "emotions" (at least by our deffinition) at all.
Alien archaeology and other mysteries: Breaking News, Theories and Tinfoil Hattery
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Fair point, if Goid related stuff was their motivation Obsidian would have been their first target i guess.
I realy curious how all this will turn out.
I wouldnt be suprised if the Thargoids lack any "emotions" (at least by our deffinition) at all.
There is room for several layers of surprises, in this story.
If feels a bit like we(humans) are a tribe in the jungle, that is confronted with a large sivilisasjon. From time to time we hit them with our poisoned darts and we think we are in control.
The reality is that they mostly leave us alone, in our reservation. Until now, when external influences motivates them to seek us out again.
I'd say that's about spot on. "Warning, Highly Aggressive Invasive Species" - Posted outside human enclosure.
Setting fire to the house is always a good way to get people to leave your party.
Its not like they nailed the door and windows shut and threw in a grenade, that's for the party next door.
We've all done it right, set fire to a toilet roll so there's no overnight guests right?
Everyone does that right?
It's the Falklands all over again. The Thargoids left leaving behind a clearly labeled plaque "this is ours and we'll be back" in the shape of the barnacles and their logo. It's not the Thargoids fault we're pesky illiterate monkeys too stoopid to read the signs that finding Thargoid bases and now returning Thargoids all over the place means that this place isn't, wasn't and never will be the Thargvinas.
Why are we there in the first place other than squatting and robbery?
As for "The Club's" claims that remains to be seen since they lie about everything why believe them about the Thargoid civil war?
It's actually mentioned in far more detail in Out of the Darkness - extensive spoilers, but basically the whole "Klaxian/Oresrian thing" laid out:
For context, this is from the first time the super-genius Carl reveals this aboard the Thargoid-constructed human-habitable part of the space station in the Peregrina system. I've edited out bits that are not directly relevant to the Thargoid Civil war.
"The Thargoid “Wars”? A skirmish. No one has ever met a “Thargoid”—a term used by the ignorant, coined when mankind—monkeys in spacesuits—found a bit of wreckage with symbols on they could not read. Humanity survives a few brief encounters with the Oresrians and thinks it can stand against the whole race.’
‘Oresrians?’ ‘Some ‘authorities’ speculate they were centuries ahead of humans… they have been in space for millennia.
While the Oresrians watch us, I watch them. They are beautiful in their purity, their efficiency. What humans label as brutal, they call purposeful. They epitomise our concept of survival of the fittest. There is no tolerance of weakness or sentimentality. What is necessary, is done. When pressed on several fronts by the Klaxians, a second “Thargoid” group, the Oresrians deemed it necessary to shift the balance of power in their war;
The Oresrian changes represent a great awakening of their species. The necessities of survival mean they are eager to learn, and I—a human—am teaching them! They are the perfect pupils. They observe and retain everything.
Oresrians can pass their experiences directly to others of their species. What I show the Oresrians here, every Oresrian will know when they return home.’
Stupid girl. Oresrians will not work alongside ordinary humans. Only I have the Pivot to offer, something so valuable they would agree to truck with one of our species. Augmented by the Pivot, our spontaneity, creativity, and adaptability means that my enhanced pilots invent new manoeuvres and tactics. The Pivot makes their erratic monkey-minds valuable. The Oresrians here learn from my little demonstrations. When they pass that knowledge to their kin, they will have the combat edge they need to eliminate the Klaxian threat. With that threat removed, the Oresrians will not be pushed towards human space. By giving the Oresrians the ability to defend themselves, I buy humanity the time it needs.’
Humanity could not stop the Oresrians if they move against us. Choosing to bestow my gift on either party would not change that outcome. The Klaxians already push into Oresrian space, seeking to expand. Who will stop them, if not the Oresrians? Let them weaken each other, before they turn on Homo sapiens. ‘Their intra-racial fighting buys humanity time. Afterwards? Culturally they still move slowly by our standards. Our species needs that delay. We are at a fulcrum point in history.
"The Thargoid “Wars”? A skirmish. No one has ever met a “Thargoid”—a term used by the ignorant, coined when mankind—monkeys in spacesuits—found a bit of wreckage with symbols on they could not read. Humanity survives a few brief encounters with the Oresrians and thinks it can stand against the whole race.’
‘Oresrians?’ ‘Some ‘authorities’ speculate they were centuries ahead of humans… they have been in space for millennia.
While the Oresrians watch us, I watch them. They are beautiful in their purity, their efficiency. What humans label as brutal, they call purposeful. They epitomise our concept of survival of the fittest. There is no tolerance of weakness or sentimentality. What is necessary, is done. When pressed on several fronts by the Klaxians, a second “Thargoid” group, the Oresrians deemed it necessary to shift the balance of power in their war;
The Oresrian changes represent a great awakening of their species. The necessities of survival mean they are eager to learn, and I—a human—am teaching them! They are the perfect pupils. They observe and retain everything.
Oresrians can pass their experiences directly to others of their species. What I show the Oresrians here, every Oresrian will know when they return home.’
Stupid girl. Oresrians will not work alongside ordinary humans. Only I have the Pivot to offer, something so valuable they would agree to truck with one of our species. Augmented by the Pivot, our spontaneity, creativity, and adaptability means that my enhanced pilots invent new manoeuvres and tactics. The Pivot makes their erratic monkey-minds valuable. The Oresrians here learn from my little demonstrations. When they pass that knowledge to their kin, they will have the combat edge they need to eliminate the Klaxian threat. With that threat removed, the Oresrians will not be pushed towards human space. By giving the Oresrians the ability to defend themselves, I buy humanity the time it needs.’
Humanity could not stop the Oresrians if they move against us. Choosing to bestow my gift on either party would not change that outcome. The Klaxians already push into Oresrian space, seeking to expand. Who will stop them, if not the Oresrians? Let them weaken each other, before they turn on Homo sapiens. ‘Their intra-racial fighting buys humanity time. Afterwards? Culturally they still move slowly by our standards. Our species needs that delay. We are at a fulcrum point in history.
MB said that the novels reveal "parts of the secret history of the Thargoids", and since there's almost nothing but this in the novels about the Thargoids, we must assume it's broadly accurate.
EDIT: Note that this all happened around 3270(ish) as best I can calculate - and at the end of the novel
It's unclear whether an Oresrian made it back to "Thargoid Space" with the new knowledge or not.
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I am going with CmdrZaratan
Green -> Black given time
Maybe they considered it dead, the habituate ring was shattered to, that doesn't seem like a "oh we are only disabling the station to minimise casualties as we are really the good guys" some Cmdrs are pushing.
Actually makes me think of Babylon 5 where the Shadows make attacks to push refugees into a single location, aiming to then hit that place hard to cripple morale.
Plus leaving wounded to rescue and care for is distracting Humanity from attacking them
I don't think there is any good girl or bad girl behavior when it comes to the Thargoids. I think thy were there to do a specific job for a specific reason.
if people die or not during that operation is irrelevant to them, but when the job is done they don't keep wasting resources for fun.
There have been multiple reports of (new) Megaships attacked by pirates in the California sector. Most systems with Alliance bases have been found to now contain attacked ships. No idea if this means anything, but it seems recent.
Example of one - you can see the ring has been broken during the attack, also damage to biodomes.
Example of one - you can see the ring has been broken during the attack, also damage to biodomes.
However, I believe that Han Sen has nailed part of the truth. If there was a logical reason for these attacks to happen, they would have stopped once they reached their objective.
Another question arises, however: Do they know that many humans survived inside the station?
I believe they do know so, but that killing humans is not actually their objective. It may be something as simple as pushing the humans out of certain systems in order to carry on with their plans, whatever they are. They do know (probably) that in the past, humankind developped a virus that wiped out a very large portion of their population, so maybe they are avoiding a full "fight or die" situation in which the humans could show the worse side of themselves.
Soo,, would you assume the Club got their information from Karl or that he was one of their projects whether he knew it or not? If the story is placed a bit before the log dates of the Dynasty projects it would tie in and wrap up nicely.
The story is what the Oresrians want Karl to believe which dovetails with his personality type. I'm mean they already have his solution to the mysterious mathematics in something like quantum protein folding that they hadn't figured out. I'm sure that's enough for them, that their chief lab rat wants to experiment on other rats to see what it can do would be a bonus. Like Pinky and the Brain I'm not certain who is the genius and who is insane.
The Thargoid back story is probably true but we only have anecdotal evidence even within the lore.
Do you really think it's like Karl said or are the Oresrians patronizing him as he so enjoys being the one human they will deal with "Who's a good boy, yesh you are, yesh you are", he admires them for their lack or emotion while gloating in their patronage an irony this genius misses.
I would guess that it's partly true, so I believe that the Oresrians are in conflict with the Klaxians (inter-Thargoid conflict was hinted at in FFE too).
I can also believe that they are slower to adapt than us, if they're as old as Carl thinks, and assuming they don't meet many/any aliens, they might well have reached a state of stagnation.
I don't think the Oresrians are the good ones and the Klaxians worse, as is suggested in Premonition. I suspect that's how the Oresrians have told the story.
There's no evidence of links between the Club and Linnaeus, it's pure speculation but I'd guess that the Club got their info from another source (since it's actually different, other than the two Thargoid factions).
I can well believe everything else is just Carl being an egomaniac.
There's a bunch more that I won't post here just now, but there's a lot of little clues that lead me to think the Oresrians are embedded within the bubble at this point and actively working with at least the Alliance, maybe the PF. The Thargoids we've been seeing in the Pleiades recently are the Klaxians finally arriving.
Yeah i can confirm that. Attacked by humans!
So far 5 alliance megaships attacked by "terrorists"
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AEGIS is up to something, and it's not what they claim. They are interdicting ships in supercruise in the systems that are calling for aid. Been interdicted multiple times by them. Last time, I submitted, and the Viper just flew off, no scan or anything.
Also, I just visited Communication Hub Zeta 12 again (https://canonn.science/codex/communication-hub-zeta-12/) and the ships that pop in there and attack you are... yep, AEGIS.
AEGIS were officially formed on Aug 4th, 3303, but that Canonn article is dated July 19th.
AEGIS has around for a while. The weren't formed recently, they just came out of the shadows.
Also, I just visited Communication Hub Zeta 12 again (https://canonn.science/codex/communication-hub-zeta-12/) and the ships that pop in there and attack you are... yep, AEGIS.
AEGIS were officially formed on Aug 4th, 3303, but that Canonn article is dated July 19th.
AEGIS has around for a while. The weren't formed recently, they just came out of the shadows.
The communications hubs were patrolled by Black Flight before Aegis moved into the systems they occupy.
The Flyby without scan is a bug that pops up from time to time.
Often with System defense force ships.
Still the same npcs there with that strange letter and numbers as a name... svi-075-c
I keep thinking on what exactly is the link between the thargoids and the Guardians. There has to be something we are not getting connected. The reaction of the Thargoids and especially the Thargoid machine in the surface sites is just to significant to not have anything more to it. I am just stumped as to what further we can do as far as research into this.
One point that is just sticking in my mind is the recent Jameson's cobra discoveries, as well as the INRA bases. The fact that INRA used biological weapons and the history of the Guardians basically wiping themselves out through biological warfare just screams to me like it has some significance. Maybe the Thargoids are aware of what happened with the Guardians and their reaction is a warning to us about the use of biological weapons? Maybe there is some further history between those two races we have not yet discovered? There just seams to be something key to the narrative here, I'm just stumped. Has anyone some more theories into this that may lead us toward some type of research we could look for?
One point that is just sticking in my mind is the recent Jameson's cobra discoveries, as well as the INRA bases. The fact that INRA used biological weapons and the history of the Guardians basically wiping themselves out through biological warfare just screams to me like it has some significance. Maybe the Thargoids are aware of what happened with the Guardians and their reaction is a warning to us about the use of biological weapons? Maybe there is some further history between those two races we have not yet discovered? There just seams to be something key to the narrative here, I'm just stumped. Has anyone some more theories into this that may lead us toward some type of research we could look for?