Good way to make yourself look like a complete and utter ............ (row of dots)
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Anyone else trying to G5 everything before the change?
- Thread starter Viking84
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Good way to make yourself look like a complete and utter ............ (row of dots)
[down]
Blackcompany
Banned
No.
If Sandro keeps RNG for any facet of what is supposed to get Engineering, I'm going to need the writing on the wall and finally uninstall the game for good.
If Sandro keeps RNG for any facet of what is supposed to get Engineering, I'm going to need the writing on the wall and finally uninstall the game for good.
This again would give all those the finger who put hundreds and hundreds of hours in engineering their fleet already.
Even if the new mods will only be equal to the current god-rolls, whatever that's supposed to mean.
As it will be much easier to maximise and therefore way more people than now WILL maximise, the bulk of the old mods will suddenly be less than subpar to the new ones, except for the very few god-rolled uber ships. Even if you had pretty decent mods overall, you'll have to re-engineer every single ship if you want it to be competitive. I for one would lose every incentive to fine-tune my fleet, not knowing when the next 'improvement' renders my efforts obsolete.
Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not saying the new mods should be weaker than the current god-rolls. Of course this would be utterly unfair on new players.
But how to compare the new mods to the old ones? A single stat doesn't make a module. The combination of stats makes the module's quality and I guess it will be impossible for them to find an arrangement that caters to everyone. I'm afraid, either way they'll upset a considerable portion of their player base.
Imho the proposed improvements to engineering itself appear too half-hearted to justify the complications they'll entail.
The material broker and increased material storage but most of all improvements to material gathering would help a lot already, and none of that would bring such implications.
And of course the roulette wheel has to go, I guess we all agree here. Other than that, if it was up to me they could leave engineering alone and spend the time on other content instead.
However, if they really wanted to improve engineering itself it'd need a way more radical overhaul imho. Some good suggestions have been made already and I'd have some ideas of my own but either way it'd take more time than FDev has on hand, I guess. After all, the crowd is eager for new content, too...
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Per Sandro, the intended goals of the engineer revamp is to:
Sandro Sammarco said:
It's that second goal, increased efficiency, which this new grade grind completely goes against. The rest of the changes do work towards accomplishing both goals rather nicely to be honest, but the new grade grind then runs 100% counter to their proposed goals. It is out of place regarding what FDev is trying to accomplish, and it arguably makes the engineering experience MORE of a grind than it is today for everyone but the 5% who min/max, which understandably is why so many people are up in arms over it.
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For me, it is the material acquisition and its associated gameplay (aka grind) that is the issue, not the engineers roulette wheel of misfortune. With lots of materials you can keep spinning the wheel to get the desired outcome. So if materials are easy to acquire then it should be more palatable. But more senseless grind needed to achieve the same end-point seems a step in the wrong direction - for me as an average player not particularly interested in the absolute best rolls.
The whole approach to engineering upgrades seems to grate with many players. Can only speculate about why FD are apparently so intransigent, but recognise it is a key component of the gameplay that makes up ED and therefore probably working as intended - which is perhaps the real issue. I find the whole process of trolling around space etc waiting for RNGeus to smile on me a pathetic excuse for gameplay, but not as pathetic as me for doing it.
The whole approach to engineering upgrades seems to grate with many players. Can only speculate about why FD are apparently so intransigent, but recognise it is a key component of the gameplay that makes up ED and therefore probably working as intended - which is perhaps the real issue. I find the whole process of trolling around space etc waiting for RNGeus to smile on me a pathetic excuse for gameplay, but not as pathetic as me for doing it.
Totally with you on this, and posted the same thoughts in the Dev feedback subforum when the topic first came up. FDev really needs to step back and rethink where the problem is. The RNG roulette would be okay if the grind to get there was fixed. Waiting for the right HGE to pop is silly gameplay as is the DMWE. But, as you stated, this time-sink RNG gameplay is probably considered "working as intended" that will probably never change.
Let's see if the changes actually make a difference or become yet another wasted opportunity.
That's my point.
If they decide on the latter (same power increase but more heat), meaning current god-rolls no longer achievable, newer players have every reason to complain.
But just imagine you can achieve those values with the new system – RELIABLY! IN LIKE 20 ROLLS (G1-G5)! This will become ridiculous...
Lol, nice project there!
Hope I won't miss your findings!
Spot on!
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I also g5ed and stored components for future ship purchases.
I thought about it but I can't really be bothered.
I might buy the ships that are missing from my "collection", G5 them all and then forget about them, in the hope that they can be cannibalised for parts later on.
Not going to bother buying any modules and engineering them "just in case" though.
By the time the Krait or the Chieftain (or any other new ship) arrives, the new system will probably be in place and will either have already been modified, or it'll have been implemented as-is, and we'll just have to get used to whatever it is sooner or later.
I might buy the ships that are missing from my "collection", G5 them all and then forget about them, in the hope that they can be cannibalised for parts later on.
Not going to bother buying any modules and engineering them "just in case" though.
By the time the Krait or the Chieftain (or any other new ship) arrives, the new system will probably be in place and will either have already been modified, or it'll have been implemented as-is, and we'll just have to get used to whatever it is sooner or later.
It's hard to get that tongue in cheek tone across on the internet, and I didn't intend to be mean, but I was trying to make a bit of a harsh point: This game is played by a LOT of people, many of whom are not seasoned gamers with lightning fast reactions and are in this for the experience rather than any gameplay challenge. If the game is ONLY balanced around these players then it will naturally become very easy very quickly for the vast majority of regular gamers. And note that I'm not talking about casuals vs hardcore gamers here, but simply the difference between those who play the game for a challenge and want it to be hard(er), vs those who are just enjoying the space ship experience that is Elite.Good way to make yourself look like a complete and utter ............ (row of dots)
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The great thing about Elite is that it can easily accommodate all types of players, with three easy changes:
1. Make system security levels matter. High sec is safe as anything, quick security response and low level pirates. Medium is harder. Low sec is pretty damn dangerous. Anarchy is for engineered ships only, expect no help and pirates and murderers that are out to hurt you.
2. Make the missions clearly state the security level of the system you are heading to. Make the difficulty level of the mission clearly understandable by the player, allowing them to tailor their own experience.
3. Make the tougher missions pay more, in both credits and materials. Reward skill rather than time investment (grind).
This way you have stuff to do for every single player type. If you are a PvP legend, well then take super tough missions to anarchy systems and battle engineered NPC's like we haven't seen since the glory days of 2.1. You will be rewarded with high end materials and credits to cover your inevitable rebuys. Are you a relaxed player, out to enjoy the scenery in your newly acquired Cobra, stick to high sec systems, or head outside of the bubble and go exploring. All basic "types" of missions could be available to all players, but scaled for difficulty based on the players choice, with similarly scaled rewards.
I honestly cannot fathom why the devs haven't done this. What we have ended up with is a game that is reduced to the lowest common denominator, and the outcry every time anything becomes challenging (referring to the fantastic NPC AI we had a year or so ago) is totally justified because there is no way for the player to determine their own risk level (difficulty).
I totally agree, but I can't see any way around it. You can't have a game where new players are forever at a disadvantage simply because they started playing it too late. I can't think of a single online game that nerfed an item or weapon but still allowed players to keep the old version, forever.
If it were up to me, I'd suggest they just keep the Engineers as they are, tweak the graphics, add the Material Broker, and leave it at that. Allow for more rolls at the lottery, and most people wouldn't mind it as much. Failing that, wipe everything, convert all current G5 mods to a base G5 of the new system and throw in 3 free rolls for each module.
Its nothing to do with wanting max g5 mods - those people will need fewer rolls in the system.
The casuals are the ones needing more time and effort to improve their mods, and not just G5.
In the current system a baseline G2 (yes G2!) mod takes a single g2 roll with a single set of G2 materials. In the new system even that will take 3-4 G1 rolls with G1 materials as well as the G2 materials. See? not min maxing, not "only G5 count" EVERY increase is worse in the new system except for 2 cases.
1) Baseline G1 mods - these take exactly the same rolls and materials - 1 set of G1 materials and 1 roll - going any higher the new system is slower and needs more materials untill you get to :
2) Max G5, where the new system take less unless you get very lucky, which you wont do many times so overall quicker in the new system.
So again the new system helps only min maxers, it hurts EVERY casual who doesnt want a max g5, even if they only want a base g2!
Nowadays G5 is the norm, not the max, BTW some explorers and PvPers do need it, I do.
Except for those who got them before the updates, now the rookies won't be able to touch the seasoned players.
The meta is the meta because it works real well, nothing hard to grasp I think.
S'funny, I keep finding this "just accept G2 or G3 mod's and be happy with them" stuff daft.
It's ESPECIALLY daft when we've currently got a system that requires people to complete a "grind" and then, once it's over, they reap the rewards of their effort and it's being replaced by a system that requires perpetual grind.
Well assuming you want to be rolling G5 mods mate, you'll get a chance to experience the immense grind wall soon. You know, when you need to roll multiple rolls for grades 1 to 4 first every time you want to roll your five grade five rolls. Even if you're applying the same modification to two identical pieces of kit at the same engineer!
Also I'd love to know what activities you're doing that find you (for example) flying around in an independent system 1,000 light seconds or more away from any station or planet literally in the middle of nowhere for significant amounts of time.
Hey, it's just another 25 mat's to find and then cart around with you, along with all the G5 mat's you actually want, and then go and make 12 pointless rolls, reject them and then make the rolls you actually want.
For every module, weapon and utility on your ship.
It's not like you'd have anything better to do, amirite?
Elite offers very little gameplay outside of the artificial grind. You might consider flying around "gameplay" but it really isn't. Gameplay is content that the devs create for the players, it isn't something the players imagine because of the lack of meaningful activities to do.
You will not gather certain resources without doing very specific activities, you can't just "gather" resources, rank and rep "along the way" because many of the activities you will be doing won't generate those outcomes at all or will be so slow you will never make adequate progress.
Yes, your "approach" ignores all of the goals that players set for themselves that require them to grind. Essentially you're happy making no meaningful progress because you've given up on the idea of progress altogether.
If you have to ask yourself "what is actual game content" then you've made the point that everyone has been saying about Elite lacking content. You're so used to the complete lack of meaningful activities in the game that you think it's "normal" to have literally nothing to do in the game.
I don't actually care for "endgame" at all in most online games that I play. I do however want to have some sense of progress at all points in a game, including once I've gotten "endgame" ships or gear. In many ways my ships aren't even at "endgame" level yet, they are fully Engineered and more than adequate for any PVE activity but I haven't gotten anywhere near the maximum performance out of my ships. The issue is that even at their current level of performance there is nothing for me to do with them that I haven't done literally thousands of time already. My Corvette doesn't have any worthy NPC opponents to fight and Elite PVP is so imbalanced that it isn't worth doing. In fact I'm specifically not trying to maximize my ship performance any further (other than trying different loadouts) because the NPCs are already too easy. Trading is pointless when you can make all the credits you want from whatever repetitive method happens to be the most lucrative income earner before FD nerfs it. Exploration hasn't changed or expanded since I went to SagA when 2.0 launched and they haven't fixed any of the various stellar forge bugs either. Thargoid "group" content is terrible and Elite still doesn't support stable and useful multiplayer functionality even if I were interested in that.
There is literally nothing to do in the game right now that I haven't already done over and over already. Telling me to fly around in a Cobra around really doesn't help the situation, it just proves the point that Elite lacks meaningful gameplay content.
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Stop wanting G5 I guess?
That's are major idea behind these changes.
Are that good or bad it's for anybody to decide. I think if there's one grade that matters why just not remove other grades outright while we at it?
Or such power creep is a bit too much on nose?
I have to agree there and have asked for something along those lines, too. There's so much potential in Anarchy systems but I'm not going to elaborate here. That's stuff for another thread...