I like this.
Combat Logging Punishment Proposal
I like this.
In that case why even try to tackle it as long as its a possibility within your game architecture its going to happen. Regardless of bans or penalties of which will only accumulate to slowly kill off some of the playerbase. The only way forward is to concentrate on what positive experiences they can develop within the current architecture and abandon pvp intensive roles such as pirating.
At least with other professions theres a possibility of making the goal something other than the destruction of an enemy ship. Faction warfare for example. Make rewards come from the taking of control points in a system and not killing your fellow player and there will be no need to get upset with combat logging.
None really but the point is the system would have to know the difference between me just yanking my internet connection because i was loosing, and a genuine problem.
The servers would have be able to see that why would I clogg if I was actually no more than a few shots from the kill with 78% hull and full shields.
Being that my isp or the cmdr that connected to the instance had a crap ping or packet loss for a second or two causing the server disconnect.
There is nothing to currently say that FDev can or cant tell the difference. They are keeping quiet as is the norm about anything on this subject.
It highly likely theyll never fully reveal any or all of that data as it would likely just open them up to new ways to cheat.
I pulled a 7mill rebuy last night due to being silly and not watching my levels etc. I was actually tempted to save the money and clogg, as its perceived on many forums inc this one that FDev dont punish offenders.
7mill is small potatoes compaired to some i know, but, its all scaleable based on the cash and experience you have.
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Okay I see what you mean now, and yes it's an important point.
The proposal to restrict you to the mode you left only relies on a couple of criteria - your ship is in danger and the client disconnected unexpectedly (not via the menu etc). We cannot know the intent of the player, only that it happened so cannot punish it. However if these events are recorded and analysed trends may appear over time, this is the basis of FDev's proposed 'Karma' system. What levels or punishments they use is up to them once their trackers establish beyond reasonable doubt that the player is acting cynically.
Player punishment for unwanted attacks should be improved as this i imagine is one of the reason for combat logging. I have done some trading in a type 9 don't make anywhere near the money for a rebuy. I have lost a couple of ships due to players just attacking me to steal my cargo. I have reported them and nothing has been done about it. So if i do cargo missions i play solo.
If this game wasn't the grind that it is at times then there wouldn't be a reason to disconnect at all.
I have an idea for players complaining about combat logging harsher punishment for players attacking players without warning and combat logging will disappear. Ban from landing on local stations, from faction stations, attack on sight from cops, players can place bounties on those players that attacked them and a wanted mark for murder for a month on that player.
Or have a special faction for those players that don't wish to be attacked so that they can't be attacked or attack another player.
DC out
If this game wasn't the grind that it is at times then there wouldn't be a reason to disconnect at all.
I have an idea for players complaining about combat logging harsher punishment for players attacking players without warning and combat logging will disappear. Ban from landing on local stations, from faction stations, attack on sight from cops, players can place bounties on those players that attacked them and a wanted mark for murder for a month on that player.
Or have a special faction for those players that don't wish to be attacked so that they can't be attacked or attack another player.
DC out
Late to the party, but those tarts won't get themselves drunk on rum.
People think the p2p system means nothing can be done. I say pish. Frontier may not be able monitor log outs, but they can certainly monitor log ins...
Personally I'd prefer all none official leaving to cause a ship explosion which woukd soon see poor connection issues (bad manners to continue in a multiplayer entertainment with continual bad Internet anyway) sorted out and better time management implemented.
This will have the same effect without worries about your not actually real income.
Naturally assume for only Open or as a tick box option in Group.
The numbers below for time and such can be tweaked but the logic tree is sound.
Let firstsessiontime(mins)= time. If playerrestart >3 and knownissue= 0 and newupdateweek = 0 and firstsessiontime + time <30 then hourplayerban = +1.
If hourplayerban >3 and firstsessiontime + time < week or hourplayerban > 5 then dayplayerban = +1..... And so on to gameban = 1 two or three steps down the line with firstsessiontime resetting to 0 after a set period.
If your Internet us dodgy and you are on strike three wait until the half hour is up.
This puts the work on the bad internet guy and not on everyone else.
People think the p2p system means nothing can be done. I say pish. Frontier may not be able monitor log outs, but they can certainly monitor log ins...
Personally I'd prefer all none official leaving to cause a ship explosion which woukd soon see poor connection issues (bad manners to continue in a multiplayer entertainment with continual bad Internet anyway) sorted out and better time management implemented.
This will have the same effect without worries about your not actually real income.
Naturally assume for only Open or as a tick box option in Group.
The numbers below for time and such can be tweaked but the logic tree is sound.
Let firstsessiontime(mins)= time. If playerrestart >3 and knownissue= 0 and newupdateweek = 0 and firstsessiontime + time <30 then hourplayerban = +1.
If hourplayerban >3 and firstsessiontime + time < week or hourplayerban > 5 then dayplayerban = +1..... And so on to gameban = 1 two or three steps down the line with firstsessiontime resetting to 0 after a set period.
If your Internet us dodgy and you are on strike three wait until the half hour is up.
This puts the work on the bad internet guy and not on everyone else.
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Play devils advocate Anopheles, what are the pros & cons of your suggestion? Can you give a few example scenarios & consider how it would affect different types of player?
Yes, FD do.
And what happens when you are playing the game, and suddenly decide to llog into your account on, for arguments sake, another PC right beside you that's already prepped and waiting for the click?
A fair exchange to those who always want to grief someone else（PVPer only）：
1.First, the bounty from PVP behave will not expire plus connecting with OPEN ONLY.
2.Prohibition to land at any station that isn't under ANARCHY or LAWLESS state,
and players get destroyed by station once they were detected or identified through the request for ducking.
（Removing bounty if the ship destroyed.）
1.First, the bounty from PVP behave will not expire plus connecting with OPEN ONLY.
2.Prohibition to land at any station that isn't under ANARCHY or LAWLESS state,
and players get destroyed by station once they were detected or identified through the request for ducking.
（Removing bounty if the ship destroyed.）
A fair exchange to those who always want to grief someone else（PVPer only）：
1.First, the bounties from PVP behave will not expire plus connecting with OPEN ONLY.
2.Prohibition to land at any station that isn't under ANARCHY or LAWLESS state,
and players get destroyed by station once they were detected or identified through the request for docking.
（Removing bounties if the ship destroyed.）
1.First, the bounties from PVP behave will not expire plus connecting with OPEN ONLY.
2.Prohibition to land at any station that isn't under ANARCHY or LAWLESS state,
and players get destroyed by station once they were detected or identified through the request for docking.
（Removing bounties if the ship destroyed.）
PvP & griefing are not the same, although perceived griefers are a sub-set as generally it involves PvP. I think your ideas have less to do with combat logging than crime & punishment, and you may be better off starting your own thread or finding a C&P thread to add your thoughts to.
There was a recent focused feedback section where punishment was discussed, blowed if I can find where it went though.
TL;DR
What if its something against their own will, like their internet went down, or during combat they get a transaction server error (I had 1 during the CG the other day, against an NPC but still), I also had them when I hit my boost button a while ago during combat against a human player and NPC alike, I had it the first time against the boy wizard after I went after him for destroying my ship on take off at The Dweller's. After that hitting boost just gave me a CTD (this forced me to play in Solo until it was remedied just in case I got a infraction or whatever it would that was handed out for something that was against my control) this has since been solved.
Just explain how on Earth you can punish someone if it is not their own fault or own doing.
I can also see why a newbie would do it if he is being attacked when he has just started playing the game and the 'I will show them who is boss' crew is flying around LHS 3447v or wherever their start System is. I have not done it myself but I can see why, especially if it is an engineered ship can take him out in seconds. It would be discouraging to say the very least. The upcoming C&P will have no effect on this happening in any case, people will still do it to bully the newb.
What if its something against their own will, like their internet went down, or during combat they get a transaction server error (I had 1 during the CG the other day, against an NPC but still), I also had them when I hit my boost button a while ago during combat against a human player and NPC alike, I had it the first time against the boy wizard after I went after him for destroying my ship on take off at The Dweller's. After that hitting boost just gave me a CTD (this forced me to play in Solo until it was remedied just in case I got a infraction or whatever it would that was handed out for something that was against my control) this has since been solved.
Just explain how on Earth you can punish someone if it is not their own fault or own doing.
I can also see why a newbie would do it if he is being attacked when he has just started playing the game and the 'I will show them who is boss' crew is flying around LHS 3447v or wherever their start System is. I have not done it myself but I can see why, especially if it is an engineered ship can take him out in seconds. It would be discouraging to say the very least. The upcoming C&P will have no effect on this happening in any case, people will still do it to bully the newb.
I appreciate that the thread is quite long & goes into considerable detail, but it is worth reading through, it is here to find a solution to exactly the problem you describe. There are links to what I consider important posts in the OP. If you read nothing else I suggest reading through those links.
My favoured proposal suggests that on any ungraceful disconnect while the ship is in danger, you are returned to the mode you were in before (which will be the mode you want to be in, unless you are cynically CLogging).
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That's the best proposal for a solution that I have read, thank you for coming up with it. Has there been any official response from FD on this? Do we know if they have seen this particular suggestion?So, I just looked through 10 pages of history and i can't find my CLogging Fix.
So I'm typing it, again. (This is probably why I can never find it, it's not one of my threads... Lol)
A tagging system.
When you enter any form of danger (anything that requires the 15 second timer to legally exit the game), a "tag" is placed on your save, which contains some information.
When you leave danger, the tag is removed. You'd be none the wiser.
If you illegally combat log, or have a CTD, server error, etc, while in danger, the tag would not be removed.
This tag is then read when loading the game, and using the information it stored, will only allow you to re-enter your previous mode for a limited time.
I particularly like this idea, because if you're just going about your business and suffer a server failure or CTD while in danger, you simply reload the game and continue as normal, in your previous mode, which we all do anyway.
But if you're intentionally combat logging in PvP, your only options are to rejoin the same mode, where your opponent may be waiting. Or don't play at all.
No one is ever barred entirely from the game, and accidental disconnects are not punished.
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Give it a few weeks, and I'll be looking for this post again.
Thanks. It does have some issues, but those can be ironed out.
I'm hoping FD have seen it. I've posted it, and had it quoted enough times.
No word on if it's even viable though. Still waiting on FD.
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Sorry, didn't read the whole thread. Just dropping a suggestion on prevention / education. Currently there is nothing telling a commander who has combat logged that he/she did a bad deed. Task kills are easily detectable so how about a warning / stern message on next start-up to educate the commander about his/her wrong doing? Something that stops upcoming career combat loggers in their tracks, give them pause for thought and have those juveniles set upon the path of righteousness for becoming upstanding galactic citizens or respected villains. Will post this in the suggestions box also.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me, it would also help to reassure those that feel nothing is being done, that something is being done
No punishment at all, if someone does a cl, what have you lost? A little xp? the happiness of a kill? The attacker loses nothing, if you are successfull in a kill the target loses everything.
That's why open players don't attack combat ships in open or do cqc. There will be no suffering and loss for the other player and god forbid the loss to a better pilot.
That's why open players don't attack combat ships in open or do cqc. There will be no suffering and loss for the other player and god forbid the loss to a better pilot.
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In the six months or so this thread has been running, I have been tempted to suggest this many times
Nevertheless cheating is cheating & use of loopholes should be discouraged or where practical, eliminated.
The method I proposed isn't actually a punishment at all.
It just puts you back in the last mode you was in, and keeps you there for a little while.
I can understand why traders and newbies CLog on wings of murderhobos in OP ships, but it's still cheating.
And when the murderhobos CLog to avoid death and the consequences for their crimes, then that's cheating even more, and depriving a bounty hunter of their earnings.