HTC VIVE PRO

[Gortron]

That's all totally fair - what I heard was "because I didn't know any better". I too absolutely love my CV1 and believe it far superior in every way to the Vive (weight/comfort, display, software, build quality, design) so I have very little interest in anything HTC. I'm *very* close to pulling the trigger on the Odyssey, just wish I could check one out in stores before ordering but there aren't any in my area at all. I too agree that upgraded displays would be awesome, that's my primary interest in the Odyssey as it seems to have a great design, similar to the CV1 and to my eyes far nicer looking than the Vive/Pro.

In fact I think I'll be ordering after I hit submit here so we'll see what I think early next week...

~X

I’d be interested in the Odyssey but for whatever reason Samsung aren’t selling them in Europe, so living in the UK it isn’t an option anyway.

I’ve got a Rift (which I love) but a 78% increase in resolution makes me very interested in the HTC Vive Pro. I’ll see what people make of the 8K vs Pro and buy whichever gets better reviews... or get the Pro if I get too impatient and the price isn’t bonkers!

 

[Exigeous]

I’d be interested in the Odyssey but for whatever reason Samsung aren’t selling them in Europe, so living in the UK it isn’t an option anyway.

I’ve got a Rift (which I love) but a 78% increase in resolution makes me very interested in the HTC Vive Pro. I’ll see what people make of the 8K vs Pro and buy whichever gets better reviews... or get the Pro if I get too impatient and the price isn’t bonkers!

Again that's fair - given the Odyssey essentially doesn't exist for you if that were the case for me I'd have at least some interest in the Vive Pro. That said as much as I do enjoy my Rift I'd just wait to see what Oculus announces as they won't be far behind HTC I'm sure.

 

[Gortron]

Again that's fair - given the Odyssey essentially doesn't exist for you if that were the case for me I'd have at least some interest in the Vive Pro. That said as much as I do enjoy my Rift I'd just wait to see what Oculus announces as they won't be far behind HTC I'm sure.

I'm not sure about that. I hope you are right but Oculus seems to be more interested in mass market appeal than cutting edge technology for now.

 

[Exigeous]

I'm not sure about that. I hope you are right but Oculus seems to be more interested in mass market appeal than cutting edge technology for now.

I don't know that I think that's fair. Yes, of course they all care about mass market but given Oculus basically invented this space I think it's safe to call them the technology leader. No other company had public betas (like the DK1/DK2) or has nearly as refined a headset/experience as they do. The level of polish is significantly above the Vive and light years ahead of the Pimax IMHO. They were the first on the market (save for the controllers) with those now being the technology leader as well. Sure the Vive has easier room scale since you don't have to home run the cameras but still I don't see them sitting on their laurels for long. They know the space and know that their customers are generally on the cutting edge of this stuff, that we're the ones the evangelize their products and the ones with the budgets to spend. They want to keep us happy and impressed - I see them doing with HTC is going to do and keep the CV1 as the $350 headset with a "Pro" version being say $500+.

Either way it's a great time to be a gamer isn't it??

 

[Gortron]

I don't know that I think that's fair. Yes, of course they all care about mass market but given Oculus basically invented this space I think it's safe to call them the technology leader. No other company had public betas (like the DK1/DK2) or has nearly as refined a headset/experience as they do. The level of polish is significantly above the Vive and light years ahead of the Pimax IMHO. They were the first on the market (save for the controllers) with those now being the technology leader as well. Sure the Vive has easier room scale since you don't have to home run the cameras but still I don't see them sitting on their laurels for long. They know the space and know that their customers are generally on the cutting edge of this stuff, that we're the ones the evangelize their products and the ones with the budgets to spend. They want to keep us happy and impressed - I see them doing with HTC is going to do and keep the CV1 as the $350 headset with a "Pro" version being say $500+.

Either way it's a great time to be a gamer isn't it??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Logie_Baird invented TV but his system lost a format war but I bet you think an American invented TV (an American invented CRT TV). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde was technologically far more advanced than the 747 but it was too expensive for most people and it died despite being far superior.

It is a great time to be a gamer but may the best man win. Oculus certainly didn't create this [video]https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=virtuality+uk&&view=detail&mid=1BA0B88A6D0897BFA2B81BA0B88A6D0897BFA2B8&FORM=VRDGAR[/video]

 

[Exigeous]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Logie_Baird invented TV but his system lost a format war but I bet you think an American invented TV (an American invented CRT TV). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde was technologically far more advanced than the 747 but it was too expensive for most people and it died despite being far superior.

It is a great time to be a gamer but may the best man win. Oculus certainly didn't create this [video]https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=virtuality+uk&&view=detail&mid=1BA0B88A6D0897BFA2B81BA0B88A6D0897BFA2B8&FORM=VRDGAR[/url]

I assume you're being somewhat pedantic as we could come up with examples like this for days and days. That said I don't think anyone would argue that Oculus is responsible for the current timing, technology and social push for current gen VR and it's unlikely we'd be where we are without them. HTC was clearly a "me too" player here and while they've put together a good product they wouldn't be here without Oculus paving the path. You're absolutely right that means nothing for the long term success of the company nor am I saying it will. I'm just saying that past performance is an indication of future performance - they have thus far been the all around technology leader and with the huge financial backing of Facebook have little reason to not continue to push the technology forward. They clearly understand their core market, us, while doing a great job of pushing the edges of that via the lowest pricing as well. So I think it's very likely that they will continue to do all this which would mean their next headset would at minimum match the Vive Pro in specs and at best surpass it. I don't really think that's too likely for their next offering as they'll want to be seen as the value leader too - HTC hasn't done themselves any favors by being priced so much higher. It would be interesting to see sales figures since Oculus cut it's price to $400 as while they have near even market share I believe the bulk of HTCs sales were before Oculus added Touch and dropped to that $399 price.

As for the best man winning as a die hard capitalist I couldn't agree more. However many times the best technology doesn't necessarily win, ie Betmax vs. VHS. That said that format war was decided by the industry (if you didn't know that look it up) and while there is VR I sorta doubt it'll have any influence here. Of course 200 degree FOV 4K VR does sound - well - creepy.

~X

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I assume you're being somewhat pedantic as we could come up with examples like this for days and days. That said I don't think anyone would argue that Oculus is responsible for the current timing, technology and social push for current gen VR and it's unlikely we'd be where we are without them. HTC was clearly a "me too" player here and while they've put together a good product they wouldn't be here without Oculus paving the path. You're absolutely right that means nothing for the long term success of the company nor am I saying it will. I'm just saying that past performance is an indication of future performance - they have thus far been the all around technology leader and with the huge financial backing of Facebook have little reason to not continue to push the technology forward. They clearly understand their core market, us, while doing a great job of pushing the edges of that via the lowest pricing as well. So I think it's very likely that they will continue to do all this which would mean their next headset would at minimum match the Vive Pro in specs and at best surpass it. I don't really think that's too likely for their next offering as they'll want to be seen as the value leader too - HTC hasn't done themselves any favors by being priced so much higher. It would be interesting to see sales figures since Oculus cut it's price to $400 as while they have near even market share I believe the bulk of HTCs sales were before Oculus added Touch and dropped to that $399 price.

As for the best man winning as a die hard capitalist I couldn't agree more. However many times the best technology doesn't necessarily win, ie Betmax vs. VHS. That said that format war was decided by the industry (if you didn't know that look it up) and while there is VR I sorta doubt it'll have any influence here. Of course 200 degree FOV 4K VR does sound - well - creepy.

~X

I don't think past performance is always indicative of future performance. Take pimax as an example, while the 4k had issues due to the 4k screen it used, the BE version which had a 2k screen didn't and is a reasonable product apart from the lack of positional tracking.

Do you not think that people or companies use these to learn, to make things better the next time?

I have seen comepanies produce something superb and then the next product be a complete dog many a time. So I disagree with you on past performance , I will take each product on its own merits instead.

 

[Exigeous]

I don't think past performance is always indicative of future performance. Take pimax as an example, while the 4k had issues due to the 4k screen it used, the BE version which had a 2k screen didn't and is a reasonable product apart from the lack of positional tracking.

Do you not think that people or companies use these to learn, to make things better the next time?

I have seen comepanies produce something superb and then the next product be a complete dog many a time. So I disagree with you on past performance , I will take each product on its own merits instead.

Hmm, I'm having a really hard time with this "logic" - so how do you evaluate or think about unreleased products from a company? If you know Porsche is about to unveil a new sportscar as is Kia do you not think the Porsche will likely be a far superior car to the Kia? Of course you wait until the actual product is out before you buy it but it's very safe to say that the Kia will not deliver the same level as the Porsche, right? And of course companies learn from prior products, just like Oculus did with the DK1 and DK2 and I'm sure the CV2 (or whatever they call it) will be a further improvement. So while of course past performance doesn't always indicate the future but until said product is out that's the only thing to go by.

You realize the entire pre-order market for products, not just games, is based on this concept right? As for the Pimax BE I can find no specs on it and from the pictures I see it's the exact same cheaply made piece of junk the 4K is - what am I missing? I can't even find a link to buy it as a real product, again what am I missing? The 4k has FAR FAR more issues than just the crappy screens, as I've previously mentioned the crappy build quality, cheap plastics, cheap/short cable, horribly uncomfortable, terrible strap, awful headphones and atrocious software. They are definitely the Kia (or Yugo) of the VR market - so I'll stick with being excited about the Porsche (Oculus) and if the Kia surprises I'll absolutely buy one.

Oh and using my Porsche analogy to your point about a good company releasing a bad product - I give you the Panamera. Yes, it's an amazing car to drive, handles amazingly and accelerates like it breaks the laws of physics. But dear lord is it fugly as sin.

So let's get back to discussing the good and bad of the Vive Pro which IMHO is a total yawner.

~X

 

[Gortron]

Hmm, I'm having a really hard time with this "logic" - so how do you evaluate or think about unreleased products from a company? If you know Porsche is about to unveil a new sportscar as is Kia do you not think the Porsche will likely be a far superior car to the Kia? Of course you wait until the actual product is out before you buy it but it's very safe to say that the Kia will not deliver the same level as the Porsche, right? And of course companies learn from prior products, just like Oculus did with the DK1 and DK2 and I'm sure the CV2 (or whatever they call it) will be a further improvement. So while of course past performance doesn't always indicate the future but until said product is out that's the only thing to go by.

You realize the entire pre-order market for products, not just games, is based on this concept right? As for the Pimax BE I can find no specs on it and from the pictures I see it's the exact same cheaply made piece of junk the 4K is - what am I missing? I can't even find a link to buy it as a real product, again what am I missing? The 4k has FAR FAR more issues than just the crappy screens, as I've previously mentioned the crappy build quality, cheap plastics, cheap/short cable, horribly uncomfortable, terrible strap, awful headphones and atrocious software. They are definitely the Kia (or Yugo) of the VR market - so I'll stick with being excited about the Porsche (Oculus) and if the Kia surprises I'll absolutely buy one.

Oh and using my Porsche analogy to your point about a good company releasing a bad product - I give you the Panamera. Yes, it's an amazing car to drive, handles amazingly and accelerates like it breaks the laws of physics. But dear lord is it fugly as sin.

So let's get back to discussing the good and bad of the Vive Pro which IMHO is a total yawner.

~X

I think the Vive Pro looks really promising. Higher Res, wireless option, built in headphones and more comfortable. I confess I've not tried the normal Vive but from everything I've read it is an excellent bit of kit and it I was more into room-scale play I'd of opted for it over the Rift due to superior tracking. The Rift is a little lighter and a bit better for ED from everything I've read and it was also cheaper.

Hopefully the Oculus will come up with something to compete.

 

[Exigeous]

due to superior tracking. The Rift is a little lighter and a bit better for ED from everything I've read and it was also cheaper.

Total FUD - the Vive's tracking is in no way superior, the only thing that's a little bit better are the lighthouses don't have to be connected to the PC via USB. With 3 cameras the Rift has the same level of tracking in the same space with arguable far better controllers. It's also much lighter with a much lighter cord so it's far better for roomscale IMHO.

Hopefully the Oculus will come up with something to compete.

For seated VR I'd possibly pick the Vive Pro for the upgraded panels as the much bulkier unit and heavier weight wouldn't be a big issue but in all other ways the Rift still smokes in IMHO. As for wireless on the Vive while that sounds cool on paper do you really want to add even more weight to your head and another battery you have to remember to charge so you can get a few hours of playtime? Also realize there is an add-on wireless for the Rift right now called the TPCast (and also works with the Vive).

 

[Flapdrol1337]

For seated VR I'd possibly pick the Vive Pro for the upgraded panels as the much bulkier unit and heavier weight wouldn't be a big issue but in all other ways the Rift still smokes in IMHO.

The vive has a bigger field of view. Nowhere near pimax, but better than rift. My nr1 complaint about my CV1, I feel like a horse with blinders on.

 

[Globusdiablo]

... If you know Porsche is about to unveil a new sportscar as is Kia do you not think the Porsche will likely be a far superior car to the Kia? Of course you wait until the actual product is out before you buy it but it's very safe to say that the Kia will not deliver the same level as the Porsche, right?...

Comparing the Oculus to a Kia is a bit rich if you ask me. But calling the Vive Pro a Porsche seems spot on. For now.

 

[Gortron]

Total FUD - the Vive's tracking is in no way superior, the only thing that's a little bit better are the lighthouses don't have to be connected to the PC via USB. With 3 cameras the Rift has the same level of tracking in the same space with arguable far better controllers. It's also much lighter with a much lighter cord so it's far better for roomscale IMHO.



For seated VR I'd possibly pick the Vive Pro for the upgraded panels as the much bulkier unit and heavier weight wouldn't be a big issue but in all other ways the Rift still smokes in IMHO. As for wireless on the Vive while that sounds cool on paper do you really want to add even more weight to your head and another battery you have to remember to charge so you can get a few hours of playtime? Also realize there is an add-on wireless for the Rift right now called the TPCast (and also works with the Vive).

There is a bit of a whiff of Fanboyism with what you are saying. I don't give a donkeys who makes it, I just want improvement and Oculus are the only company that isn't doing anything.

 

[Laste]

There is a bit of a whiff of Fanboyism with what you are saying. I don't give a donkeys who makes it, I just want improvement and Oculus are the only company that isn't doing anything.

To be honest ,nobody realized the htc pro was coming. It was a surprise for people, in the same vein, we really don't know what oculus has in store. Facebook has a tight reign on what people learn about their products.

Everybody was kinda expecting the new voltas from nvidia were going to be announced at ces, but they weren't. It dosen't mean it isn't going to happen, we just don't know when.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

To be honest ,nobody realized the htc pro was coming. It was a surprise for people, in the same vein, we really don't know what oculus has in store. Facebook has a tight reign on what people learn about their products.

Everybody was kinda expecting the new voltas from nvidia were going to be announced at ces, but they weren't. It dosen't mean it isn't going to happen, we just don't know when.

The vive desperately needed the comfort update, and would need a new unit to leverage the v2 sensors and lighthouses.
The new panels merely the hook.

Sure who here wouldn't want higher resolution, but they aren't going to space here, just buying panels factory made by Samsung.
Software side of it is pretty much handled by valve anyways.

The fact they stick with the same lenses tell me nearly zero effort has gone into except for the comfort aspect.

We don't know what oculus is working on.
But financially they are in a different universe than HTC who has honestly been eexcpected to go the way of Motorolla for some time.
Heck might even be in Valves interest to buy them outright as their hardware arm.

What rumors I have heard of around oculus is they are waiting for more tech, and who here thinks mainstream PC's are capable of running the pro at 90fps ?

No you are going to need a monster rig.
Not so sure this would go in HTC's favour.

 

[Gortron]

The vive desperately needed the comfort update, and would need a new unit to leverage the v2 sensors and lighthouses.
The new panels merely the hook.

Sure who here wouldn't want higher resolution, but they aren't going to space here, just buying panels factory made by Samsung.
Software side of it is pretty much handled by valve anyways.

The fact they stick with the same lenses tell me nearly zero effort has gone into except for the comfort aspect.

We don't know what oculus is working on.
But financially they are in a different universe than HTC who has honestly been eexcpected to go the way of Motorolla for some time.
Heck might even be in Valves interest to buy them outright as their hardware arm.

What rumors I have heard of around oculus is they are waiting for more tech, and who here thinks mainstream PC's are capable of running the pro at 90fps ?

No you are going to need a monster rig.
Not so sure this would go in HTC's favour.

The need for a monster rig is gonna be a sticking point for me. I played last night with HMD quaiity set at 1.75 instead of 1.25 to simulate having a Vive Pro demand wise. It is playable on my GTX 1080 but smooth it is not. I get hitching and juddering without ASW on (I cannot stand ASW).

A 1080Ti isn't a big enough jump for me to get my wallet open for so until someone brings out a card good enough for it I won't be changing I don't think.

 

[Full_Ninja]

I think the Vive Pro looks really promising. Higher Res, wireless option, built in headphones and more comfortable. I confess I've not tried the normal Vive but from everything I've read it is an excellent bit of kit and it I was more into room-scale play I'd of opted for it over the Rift due to superior tracking. The Rift is a little lighter and a bit better for ED from everything I've read and it was also cheaper.

Hopefully the Oculus will come up with something to compete.

The thing that is really intriguing about the headphones is they have an amp.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

The need for a monster rig is gonna be a sticking point for me. I played last night with HMD quaiity set at 1.75 instead of 1.25 to simulate having a Vive Pro demand wise. It is playable on my GTX 1080 but smooth it is not. I get hitching and juddering without ASW on (I cannot stand ASW).

A 1080Ti isn't a big enough jump for me to get my wallet open for so until someone brings out a card good enough for it I won't be changing I don't think.

It's not so bad as that, the 1.77 pixel ratio is the already squared resolution so what you should apply is closer to an SS of 1.33.

Even the Pimax 8k rendered resolution of 2560x1440 is a SS level of 1.68 (per panel)
But it is worrying me since I too find stuttering utter abysmal.
So much so i don't do SS at all on my 1080ti.

That should be in the realm of a 1080, but I honestly wouldn't bother with anything less than a 1080.

But I keep landing on the lenses.

What is point of better resolution really when optically only 10% of that will be readable anyway?
If anything HTC need to change it would be the lenses.
But that might involve real work since they would have to redesign the lens warp as well.

 

[Globusdiablo]

Though running the pro at native resolution should be less taxing than amping ss and hmd quality. Time will tell.

 

[Laste]

The need for a monster rig is gonna be a sticking point for me. I played last night with HMD quaiity set at 1.75 instead of 1.25 to simulate having a Vive Pro demand wise. It is playable on my GTX 1080 but smooth it is not. I get hitching and juddering without ASW on (I cannot stand ASW).

A 1080Ti isn't a big enough jump for me to get my wallet open for so until someone brings out a card good enough for it I won't be changing I don't think.

And just try and find a 1080ti with all these wannabe millionaires buying them for mining. The price is outrageous, if you can find one, so i'm not going that route anytime soon.
The volta is supposed to be even faster at mining so they'll disappear faster also while keeping the price inflated.
I hope the crypto crash comes sooner then later so we can finally get our hands on cheap video cards when the great sell off starts.