Beyond C&P - Must admit I'm slightly concerned about PvP piracy outcome

[Roybe]

Yes, but as I said in the OP, I'm not talking about a pirate who destroys his victim. In my example I'm asking if a pirate who doesn't even shoot at a victim and simply uses limpets will lose access to station facilities?

Absolutely. You are a criminal, just as much as a murderer is. Limpet attachment is just as illegal as shooting someone, that's why you get a fine/bounty now. It will be jurisdictional, until your bounties are so high that you are blocked by the Superpower itself. You will be able to access any anarchy system to offload goods...which will make anarchy systems a lot more interesting. In Open the PVP folks could try to pirate the pirates as they come in to land...for starters!

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Absolutely. You are a criminal, just as much as a murderer is. It will be jurisdictional, until your bounties are so high that you are blocked by the Superpower itself. You will be able to access any anarchy system to offload goods...which will make anarchy systems a lot more interesting. In Open the PVP folks could try to pirate the pirates as they come in to land...for starters!

Also getting to anarchy system without going trough major systems will be interesting challenge.

 

[askavir]

Absolutely. You are a criminal, just as much as a murderer is. It will be jurisdictional, until your bounties are so high that you are blocked by the Superpower itself. You will be able to access any anarchy system to offload goods...which will make anarchy systems a lot more interesting. In Open the PVP folks could try to pirate the pirates as they come in to land...for starters!

Or try to claim their bounties, which are no longer peanuts!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Anarchies will become populated because they will be the only place to sell ill gotten goods and get your bounties 'fixed'.

I doubt they will have a higher payout...and honestly, should always pay substantially less than the market price.

This is the discussion between fencing and smuggling.

Fences pay pennies on the dollar because they have to get rid of 'hot goods'...at substantial risk to themselves.

Smuggling is providing supply to a pent up demand for the good....so should always provide a decent markup IF the demand IS pent up.



Until the criminal retains a 'large number of bounties' then is blackballed by the whole of the Superpower that was offended.

I disagree. A fence should be available in any security system to get rid of your stolen goods at a cost. In an anarchy you should be able to sell your goods at higher then normal prices at the commodities markets due to the fact that there is no law, it's very dangerous and not many trade there, there for high demand on the commodities market. Makes sense. So at anarchies there should be no black markets or fence just a commodities market.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Pirates should be based in anarchy, and maybe make incursions into other systems. So far these changes will finally see me become a Scary Pirate!

Hundred percent.
I see these changes as encouraging that. I like it.

 

[Maka Gucci]

Won't it just mean being more careful about where one pirates, and having a dedicated
hot " ship for the task. We'll still be able to use black markets in other/Anarchy systems.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I disagree. A fence should be available in any security system to get rid of your stolen goods at a cost. In an anarchy you should be able to sell your goods at higher then normal prices at the commodities markets due to the fact that there is no law, it's very dangerous and not many trade there, there for high demand on the commodities market. Makes sense. So at anarchies there should be no black markets or fence just a commodities market.

Good point. In a way, there should be balance. Some things might cost cheaper, some things might cost more (more desired, grey area things). Can such careful balance be achieved with current version of BGS? That's something to ask Adam and Sandro.

Won't it just mean being more careful about where one pirates, and having a dedicated
hot " ship for the task. We'll still be able to use black markets in other/Anarchy systems.

Well, that's an idea behind all this. Limit griefers, but allow people who want play with crime chance to do so.

 

[DaggerSnake]

So yes, illegal destruction (of a CMDR) should result in significant penalties.

But, if you're simply trying to be the nicest pirate you can, and even only use the existing crummy limpet mechanism to extract cargo from another CMDR, surely you're now going to be even worse off due to this new C&P mechanism? ie: Lose station facility access etc etc?

Have I understood clearly?

It’s not about being nice or mean Pirates. It’s about laws within systems and consequences for breaking them. If a system says it’s illegal to shoot limpets at a ship here, then a CMDR can make their descision.

An anarchies are anything goes, I like where their heads are there.

The risk vs reward does need some tweaking. Trade or coutrier missions to anarchy should be higher.

Pirate targets in high security systems should be carrying more high value rare goods that can’t be purchased.

Anarchy systems should have high value missions located in high sec systems.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Agreed. Anarchies should be dangerous but profitable.

Also, I believe Sandro has spoken about plans to give pirates more tools at some point. Now if only they'd make smuggling feel more dangerous......& more profitable!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Also, I believe Sandro has spoken about plans to give pirates more tools at some point. Now if only they'd make smuggling feel more dangerous......& more profitable!

Smuggling should be done through black markets. Getting missions to get certain commodities which are illegal in that jurisdiction. A fence may offer lucrative pirate missions to pirate a ship with a specific object or objects on board.

 

[CmdrJacks]

Piracy has been broken. This is a good first step , like in the old games where visiting an anarchy was a dangerous business as it will be a gathering place for the undesirables. Hopefully mission rewards will be increased when visiting such dangerous places.

 

[SpeakerToAliens]

I still think the best solution to the problem of Griefers would be both expulsion from the Pilots Federation, including - most especially - loss of access to rebuy insurance and a 120 second CL timeout, where your ship flies straight and level once you CL/logout and, if your ship is destroyed in that time (with total loss of RNGineered modules ), well that's just tough.

P.S. I have no problem at all with piracy - I play as a pirate myself (at times).

 

[Roybe]

I disagree. A fence should be available in any security system to get rid of your stolen goods at a cost. In an anarchy you should be able to sell your goods at higher then normal prices at the commodities markets due to the fact that there is no law, it's very dangerous and not many trade there, there for high demand on the commodities market. Makes sense. So at anarchies there should be no black markets or fence just a commodities market.

The commodity market, if accepting ill gotten goods, IS the black market in the anarchy system....basically, a system wide fencing system. Ill gotten goods, since they are marked as such, should sell at a fencing discount against the pirate...legally obtained goods being delivered legally, should be sold at regular market prices.

Piracy has been broken. This is a good first step , like in the old games where visiting an anarchy was a dangerous business as it will be a gathering place for the undesirables. Hopefully mission rewards will be increased when visiting such dangerous places.

I am hoping MoM™ is allowed to be unshackled in Anarchy systems now. Only way to make the systems truly different.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The commodity market, if accepting ill gotten goods, IS the black market in the anarchy system....basically, a system wide fencing system. Ill gotten goods, since they are marked as such, should sell at a fencing discount against the pirate...legally obtained goods being delivered legally, should be sold at regular market prices.

Why would any commodity be marked as stolen in a lawless jurisdiction. They will not care if it is stolen or not. In fact I would have it in anarchies that any stolen goods are treated as not stolen.

 

[Marra Morgan]

I certainly hope the BgS actions with black market sales in anarchies will be given a second look - otherwise we are going to be undermining our own havens!

 

[Iskariot]

Until the criminal retains a 'large number of bounties' then is blackballed by the whole of the Superpower that was offended.

Yes, but from what I understood you can dump the wanted ship and use another.

So there is much room for all kinds of fun .

 

[Roybe]

Why would any commodity be marked as stolen in a lawless jurisdiction. They will not care if it is stolen or not. In fact I would have it in anarchies that any stolen goods are treated as not stolen.

It's marked as stolen in your hold. Why should a pirate get to sell marked stolen goods at market price? They are fencing their goods...they should have to pay the piper to sell those goods out.

Yes, but from what I understood you can dump the wanted ship and use another.

So there is much room for all kinds of fun .

Right...it is on a per ship basis.

 

[askavir]

Yes, but as I said in the OP, I'm not talking about a pirate who destroys his victim. In my example I'm asking if a pirate who doesn't even shoot at a victim and simply uses limpets will lose access to station facilities?


So yes, if a CMDR simply limpets cargo from a victim they lose access to the station facilities? Eeeek! If so, I thought PvP piracy was contrived and poorly paying before, but after this?

It's not like there is a lack of stations available to dock in this game...

Did you think it made any sense that a player could rob a ship and dock in the station next door to rearm and sell the stolen stuff?

 

[Roybe]

I certainly hope the BgS actions with black market sales in anarchies will be given a second look - otherwise we are going to be undermining our own havens!

This is definitely an issue that needs to be looked into.

On the other side, it will interesting to see if anarchic factions will be played and moved into lawful systems...or, if lawful factions will be moved into anarchic systems...you know, for fun and games!

 

[bigity]

All sounds good to me actually.

Pirates should be required to use some "Skills" like anyone else in the pursuit of their goals. No longer being able to simply and quite easily BLOW UP their victim to obtain their cargo sounds like a definite step in the right direction.

[up]

Making the wanton destruction of another human pilot a serious offense is long, long, long, long, long, long overdue.

You have NEVER been able to get cargo by blowing up a ship.