9 times out of 10 they will log when heavily damaged/disabled, so it's not really a solution.
Beyond C&P - Must admit I'm slightly concerned about PvP piracy outcome
- Thread starter NeilF
- Start date
9 times out of 10 they will log when heavily damaged/disabled, so it's not really a solution.
TBH, when I've pirated, I've witnessed surprisingly little combat logging. I guess CMDRs choosing OPEN have already resigned themselves to some element of risk.
That said, I doubt many have signed up to to Interdiction-->Hello Mr Murder Hobo-->Pew pew-->Dead for the grief.
It may well be, if this new mechanic can rein in Murder-Hobos, that OPEN becomes a more sane place, and combat logging reduces.
Couple of random notes:-
- I still think not including anarchy systems in the mechanic (or some mechanic) is wrong. eg: Increasing Notoriety + rebuy value etc for "illegal destruction". Any new alien site found will continue to just be a beacon to toxic murder hobo activities, as they know not a single blemish will appear on their records.
- Would be interesting if your Notoriety got high enough if you could only log into OPEN?
- I wonder if reducing your Notoriety over time might be useful. eg: 1 each month?
I just don't understand what you're banging on about. What, seriously, is the difficulty here?
Is it really required for *me* to tell *you* that traders travelling to a CG with goods, get the goods "somewhere"? Must I really say this?
Must I also analyse it for you and tell you that you might have to do some research (the same research) that traders must do to find the source of CG goods?
Must I also plant the seed of an idea that it is possible to pirate the traders *at source*, instead of waiting for them to arrive at the CG system?
I mean, what the hell is wrong with your power of analysis here, and what is your beef with pirating CG traders in a system other than the CG system. Surely you must have thought of these things yourself???? So what is the issue?
Again, are you seriously not able to analyse this? How about travelling to a nearby other system to pay your bounty/fine in order that the facilities are no longer unavailable in the required system?
Much angst about a bit of effort being required. Too much.
Mark H
Couple of random notes:-
- I still think not including anarchy systems in the mechanic (or some mechanic) is wrong. eg: Increasing Notoriety + rebuy value etc for "illegal destruction". Any new alien site found will continue to just be a beacon to toxic murder hobo activities, as they know not a single blemish will appear on their records.
- Would be interesting if your Notoriety got high enough if you could only log into OPEN?
- I wonder if reducing your Notoriety over time might be useful. eg: 1 each month?
Regarding notoriety... I really do think that it should increase even from crimes in Anarchy. Reason? Notoriety is not really something applied by law or justice. It is a reputation gained based on commonly shared knowledge of prior actions.
Things that happen in Anarchy space still will be talked about, whether in full truth or not, by other CMDRs. This word of mouth, outside of any legal mechanism, is a primary creator, driver, and maintainer of a notorious reputation that follows it's owner.
In a simple world, at the very least a pirate should be juggling something like:-
- Reducing a victims shields down to 50% (2 bar).
- Firing a hatch break (when shields down to 50%).
- Firing FSD distrupters if necessary.
- Repeating 1&2&3 as necessary.
- Firing collector limpets fit for purpose to collect cargo (Too slow at the moment).
If just doing the above gave a fairly non-clunky experience and a reasonable reward, that would be an improvement IMHO.
Well, we're in agreement then. While anarchy permits mindless destruction to go by ignored, murder-hobos will surprise surprise flock there and do their lovely toxic stuff.
Ignoring illegal destruction in anarchy systems makes no sense from a game universe point of view or resultant gameplay point of view...
Well, that nugget brings us to question the fundamental reason why players want to engage in piracy gameplay. If I were to project my own thoughts and desires onto this - I would play pirate for the challenge and fun of it and definitely *not* the reward.
If piracy gameplay ceases to be fun, then just stop engaging in it.
If you'll still engage in it regardless of the fun element, (which I suspect a lot of players still will, because shallow justification murder-hobo "reasons") then stop beefing about "faff" and "rewards". The "reward" is the fun of it and the challenge of it... Surely... and not arguing to make it *easy*; or am I missing something here?
Piracy, necessarily *should* be a faff and more of a difficult role to engage in.
Cheerz
Mark H
I know and I want this game to make it easier to "make believe".
I mean we get blow up for being slow at docking, but wanted CMDRs can dock at stations without that much problems? Makes it hard to keep that immersion.
in a supercapitalistic society, preventing profits might be a worse crime than making some illegal profit.
The station needs an interstellar factors contact to do anything. Will it be locked out? I don’t know.
CGs are not only in systems with security. They change all the time. Pirates and Traders can choose their battles week to week.
Yes people should feel safer in systems with security. The higher the safer. Pirates should feel penalized. That’s the whole foundation of security.
HOWEVER Pirates choosing a higher risk system need incentive and fun. Has anyone asked Sandro about piracy reward balance? I thought he said there were balances and tools in the works...
Areas of interest outside civilized space in OPEN? That’s a really good point! My guess? Good luck, again choose your battles. I’d probably use the personal encounter filter effectively (modes)
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TBH, when I've pirated, I've witnessed surprisingly little combat logging. I guess CMDRs choosing OPEN have already resigned themselves to some element of risk.
That said, I doubt many have signed up to to Interdiction-->Hello Mr Murder Hobo-->Pew pew-->Dead for the grief.
It may well be, if this new mechanic can rein in Murder-Hobos, that OPEN becomes a more sane place, and combat logging reduces.
Couple of random notes:-
- I still think not including anarchy systems in the mechanic (or some mechanic) is wrong. eg: Increasing Notoriety + rebuy value etc for "illegal destruction". Any new alien site found will continue to just be a beacon to toxic murder hobo activities, as they know not a single blemish will appear on their records.
- Would be interesting if your Notoriety got high enough if you could only log into OPEN?
- I wonder if reducing your Notoriety over time might be useful. eg: 1 each month?
Oh yea. My point was more of all these changes are useless, because of combat logging. Griefers will never face a rebuy in the trillions because they'll simply pull the plug.
To be honest, I think FD might be trying to kill off piracy, this way they can perpetually postpone implementing better criminal gameplay rewards.
Piracy was already a luxury activity and a money/time sink, now it's just flat out punishing with increased punishment and no increased rewards.
After all, no need to implement a system for a non-existent population. I don't know if I'm pessimistic or just pragmatic at this point.
Piracy was already a luxury activity and a money/time sink, now it's just flat out punishing with increased punishment and no increased rewards.
After all, no need to implement a system for a non-existent population. I don't know if I'm pessimistic or just pragmatic at this point.
*sigh* Well then make us fly to Beagle Point to sell anything an improve it no end?
It's already clunky and has a criminal (*joke*) low reward. Hence me being careful to understand any more hurdles being thrown at it?
Yes, it will be interesting to see if some murder-hobos just keep going and going and going, and on any risk of destruction, ooops internet drops!
True, I mean, actual "griefers" would use anything to their advantage so combat logging is definitely an option for them.
Advanced system security? Log.
Getting scanned by the station? Log.
Being chased down by a bounty hunter? Log.
If their goal is to cause "grief" and FD clearly doesn't want to address combat logging, this C & P overhaul is somewhat useless.
Of course they do. Criminality is merely a concept derived from taking an act that the general community at large would retaliate against.
People commit crime for all kinds of different reasons.
If there's no incentive to commit crime, then there would be no crime in this world.
Right now it just seem like FD wants to delete criminal game play that isn't "griefer", which is ironically ludicrous.
Yes, I'm quite certain pirates would love the challenge of tracking down the victim's IP address, locate them physically in the world, travel to their location, and punch them in the face for combat logging, then make a return trip.
Also, I'm pretty sure the majority of the real world crimes are not a result of people bored out of their mind and just want a challenge. There are criminals like that, but not in the majority for sure.
*Chuckles in the background*
Ah this forum hasn't changed...
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People arguing for the basis of Piracy as a profession claim that it's their way of "enjoyment" in this game.
Then you have a schism in the definition because some believe they're not "murderers" yet others argue that if you don't murder your victim you come across as inept.
Robbery or Murder, it's all "crime"... and that's what punishment is designed for. No arguments necessary, it's pretty straightforward.
I think you suffer from a fundamental inability to separate real world criminality and consequence to a video game ._.
The essence of video game is to create a virtual environment for people to enjoy.
Piracy in this game, in my eyes, should not involve murder, but should be lucrative, competitive with lucrative cargo runs with appropriate risk.
If the C&P update came with said appropriate rewards, I think pirates would be more than happy to engage in it. But that's not the case.
Crime in this game is just another facet of gameplay, even punishment against crime in this game is supposed to be another facet of gameplay that create intrigues.
I don't understand what part of you fail to comprehend this concept.
That being said, crime is never equal in any game. It is pretty much hardcore approach and frankly I am really surprised about some of reactions there.
If you are sceptic about FD not caring about piracy gameplay or smuggling, fine. Time will tell. Sandro have hinted smuggling as part of changes for Beyond but that's still very unclear. It is not like they lack ideas or direction.
But consequences will be there more or less.
Also I assume you guys are just interested in PvP crime.
Your first sentence answers your own questions. Take your time, let it sink in.