Personal Narrative

^^ at a fundamental level, all games are a matter of pushing the right button in the right order at the right time. Or Rolling the right skills at the right time.

Only things that matters is : Why ?

In ED Why = "To make credits" in most cases.

Moving to intrinsic rewards (i.e. playing for the fun/advancing the story/discovering X) is much harder to setup, as one needs :

1) Memorable locations, and characters. ED has the former done okayish, but not the later.
2) Getting the players in situations where they have skin in the game (i.e. care about where the story is going) : non-existant (embryo state in the BGS/PP)
3) Initial challenge - setback/complications - Final challenge : non-existant
4) Meaningfull narative context by making good use of the lore as backdrop/clue/reward : mostly missing
5) Color (social realist station in communist systems, slums/high rise in Corpo, System at war being very dangerous idea and feeling like it, etc...) : mostly missing
6) Opposition driven by legible motives and with ressource to bring to bear against the player : inexistant

Once this is improved, FD can build robust not-fully linear "quests"/"short stories" centered around ED lore / memorable locations. (e.g. Tionisla graveyard, the Lave cluster and so on).

If I was in FDev shoes I would try to pick a dozen of memorable ED locations with a rich lore, and build a 5-by-5's for each.

To FDev : read about "5x5 quest design", "3 clues rule", "don't prep plots, prep situations"

This guy gets it.

Without memorable characters and places, you can't do personal narrative because you will lack meaningful, memorable interaction and consequences.

Malcolm Reynolds isn't interesting without the decisions he has made, the places they've taken him and the allies and Enemies they have garnered.

Elite lacks ALL of this. And worse, there has NEVER been even the least effort to introduce it. Just low effort numbers grind instead of content.

It's not happening, fellas. Sorry, I wish I were wrong, but I don't think I am...
 
This is the problem I have with this mentality: I have to imagine all of these details. You make it sound so much more interesting than it really is in the game. The actual gameplay loop is so detached from any of this detail. The way you describe these activities sound so amazing, but the actual gameplay is pretty minimal and detached from the experience you're imagining. You don't really feel or experience the effects of you helping rebels in a system. At best, you see a percentage point of influence change. You don't know anything about the rebels you're helping or what they're fighting against.

It the same issue when they announced the search and rescue contact. It sounded great in theory...finally I can roleplay being a search and rescue team! But how did it really manifest itself in the game? You pick up cargo, in this case escape pods, which behave exactly the same as most of the other cargo in the game, and deliver it to a menu in a space station. Were it not for the different text on the button label, it would be functionally the same as selling cargo in the market or turning in combat bonds. It doesn't feel different enough.

So no, I don't think turning in materials to unlock a weapon counts as personal narrative, nor does it sound interesting. It's exactly the same gameplay loop that we've had with CGs, combat bonds, search and rescue, albeit with a different reward. It's just different text on a label.

Unfortunately this....however it's not out yet so I'll wait to see what they actually do with the Tech Brokers in game.

I have a feeling it will be exactly what we saw in the live stream 'unlock item A, bring me 30X, 30Y, 30Z etc...'

Not sure how that basic mechanic can be considered a 'narrative'.

Still, looking at the positives, new modules are always nice and there is plenty of game play to be had working out which modules you want to unlock and how they can be included into a viable build.
 
The suggestion you describe would be best with a chain of story-driven missions. Then that info gets added to an auto-generated character biography. I also thought that the "personal narrative" would be story-driven missions. So each mission is part of a big story that unfolds based on player choices. Each mission shows more of the story. It can be text-based storytelling with errands.

I made a thread about adding rank names to notoriety levels. Such as:

Petty Criminal
Felon
Outlaw
Villain
Marauder
Scourge
Assassin
Terrorist

I like this
 
Came to the thread to see what this 'personal narrative' is about.

Glancing through the comments, this sounds like it'll be implemented as a mission (quest) where you'll loot or earn special tech (magic items). There are a whole bunch of gates to unlock and variables or paths to customize.

This all ends up being your narrative of what you did and how you did to get to where you are now, tracked via the upcoming Codex.

Oh, you'll earn a bunch of honorific titles and badges to add to the narrative.
 
^^ at a fundamental level, all games are a matter of pushing the right button in the right order at the right time. Or Rolling the right skills at the right time.

Only things that matters is : Why ?

In ED Why = "To make credits" in most cases.

Moving to intrinsic rewards (i.e. playing for the fun/advancing the story/discovering X) is much harder to setup, as one needs :

1) Memorable locations, and characters. ED has the former done okayish, but not the later.
2) Getting the players in situations where they have skin in the game (i.e. care about where the story is going) : non-existant (embryo state in the BGS/PP)
3) Initial challenge - setback/complications - Final challenge : non-existant
4) Meaningfull narative context by making good use of the lore as backdrop/clue/reward : mostly missing
5) Color (social realist station in communist systems, slums/high rise in Corpo, System at war being very dangerous idea and feeling like it, etc...) : mostly missing
6) Opposition driven by legible motives and with ressource to bring to bear against the player : inexistant

Once this is improved, FD can build robust not-fully linear "quests"/"short stories" centered around ED lore / memorable locations. (e.g. Tionisla graveyard, the Lave cluster and so on).

If I was in FDev shoes I would try to pick a dozen of memorable ED locations with a rich lore, and build a 5-by-5's for each.

To FDev : read about "5x5 quest design", "3 clues rule", "don't prep plots, prep situations"

Good grief man....don't say these things out loud, THEY might hear!

We can't have any of these things in the game....out of the question....didn't you know you have to use your imagination as a substitute for these things....:rolleyes:
 
Doing science. One jump to Iah Lanitei.
...
Summary: one hour driving, nearly 30 rocks blasted, 6 Technetium (2x3), got bored at this point too.

At that pace getting 30 Technetium would take 5 hours. While I like driving SRV hunting specific materials is a chore. I wouldn't want to do that for more than one hour (for a single mod).

So, maybe Tech Brokers are not for me. :mad: Or maybe they tweak the numbers (as they hinted in the live stream). :rolleyes:
 
At that pace getting 30 Technetium would take 5 hours. While I like driving SRV hunting specific materials is a chore. I wouldn't want to do that for more than one hour (for a single mod).

So, maybe Tech Brokers are not for me. :mad: Or maybe they tweak the numbers (as they hinted in the live stream). :rolleyes:
1 hour ? Most people here would have them ALL in a week at 1 hour each. That would not be Personal Narrative.
 
Frontier should add Epic Mission Arcs. Like The Blood Stained Stars in Eve Online:

The Blood-Stained Stars

Each epic mission arc is a special series of missions tied together in a dramatic story. These are often more difficult than standard missions of "equivalent" level, but have better narrative and often better rewards. The last mission in each arc gives a significant faction standing boost - with no derived standings changes to other factions - and may also award a valuable item. Each epic arc has at least one branch point where your decision of how to continue will affect both the story and your rewards.

The epic arcs can involve a lot of travel, but many of the missions can be accepted and/or completed remotely to reduce travel time. Epic arc missions do not expire, and each arc can be repeated every three months.
 
More info on tech brokers:

Hi,

Tech brokers are distributed based on system stats across human inhabited space.
In general terms they should appear in lawful, fairly high security and decently populated systems with certain economy types. I'm not going to go into more specifics as we want you to explore and find these guys.
The broker system can support different types of Tech Broker which would have some correlation to the economy they are available at and there would also be correlation between the type of broker and the blueprints they will offer.

I hope that answers your question

Thanks

Steve K

Hi,

Thanks for the question.

I can confirm that there will be a new By Services option in the Map view Configuration and you will be able to search for starport services including the tech brokers in the galaxy map with a 40LY radius of your current location (similar to the trade data system shown in the live stream) so that you can see where the nearest ones are to you as long as you have discovered them.

thanks

Steve K


Hi,

Thanks for your question,

Selecting one item to unlock will not block you from buying any other item. We felt this would restrict players too much. You are free to unlock any and all items at your own pace.
That said unlocking certain items is linked to certain types of gameplay. What we showed yesterday was just a taster.
The best thing about the sytem is it is very expanable giving us and you plenty of flexibility.

At the moment the tech brokers have types which each have a pool of things they can offer. We decided on this approach to make the system as acccessible as possible with larger numbers of brokers in the galaxy rather than just X number in specific locations. But if we decide to we want to make unqiue specilist tech brokers in specific locations we can.

Thanks

Steve K

In case you missed it.
 
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Maybe you should read it again. Also you don't unlock the vendor but the product.

It's just another grindy unlock. No interaction. No meaningful exchange. No in universe consequences.

This isn't narrative, it's just another grind. Pretty much proof this is all Fdev either can do, or are capable of doing.
 
So this bit sounds like a grind wall:

That said unlocking certain items is linked to certain types of gameplay. What we showed yesterday was just a taster.

Okay. Everything must be a grind wall for you then. While I accept that there needs more consequences in the game, I really can't judge on the personal narative until I see it in action.

Like a lot of your posts you jump to conclusions before seeing it.
 
This all strikes me as a whole lot of faux outrage and other assorted levels of pointless hand wringing.

Personal Narrative simply means YOUR STORY in the game. Nothing more, nothing less.

Surely you guys can find something more timely and substancial to worry about than a simple case of semantics?
 
This all strikes me as a whole lot of faux outrage and other assorted levels of pointless hand wringing.

Personal Narrative simply means YOUR STORY in the game. Nothing more, nothing less.

Surely you guys can find something more timely and substancial to worry about than a simple case of semantics?

Its the internet, so I doubt it
 
It's just another grindy unlock. No interaction. No meaningful exchange. No in universe consequences.

This isn't narrative, it's just another grind. Pretty much proof this is all Fdev either can do, or are capable of doing.

I don't see that there needs to be any in universe consequence here.
Meaningful exchange, may depend on how the material brokers are set up.
Interaction? Not sure what you mean because you will be interacting with the Tech broker.
Grindy unlock, I think also depends on the material broker experience.

I think the Tech Brokers can be narrative in style - and imagine that's Frontier's aim - but also don't think it's reasonable to expect that all in one go. The Tech Brokers are JUST BEING SET UP .. the materials you need are at the moment totally arbitrary and I doubt there's any reason why they couldn't be linked to the mission spawn system direct. However, to do that in one go is the kind of code juggling that usually ends up in a bug fest. Suggest better to establish the basic system (the UI, the Broker types, the pilot log, the station outfitting unlocks) and consider other ways to unlock as other ways .. and as an expansion.
 
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This all strikes me as a whole lot of faux outrage and other assorted levels of pointless hand wringing.

Personal Narrative simply means YOUR STORY in the game. Nothing more, nothing less.

Surely you guys can find something more timely and substancial to worry about than a simple case of semantics?

These sorts of comments always strike me some what as kettle black?

ie: Someone taking such umbrage to other people discussing an issue they have, that they feel compelled to come in and level a few jolly good finger wags at them all! :)
 
... personal narrative.

from what I've seen so far looks like "personal grind goals" outside of the Cutter and Corvette for something other than credits (materials).
 
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