Spoilers I don't think frontier intended to reveal this.

Cosmo

Cosmo
By the way, notice how the Biology entries are written in Past Tense. This further underlines that they're extinct (or at least the original Guardians).

For example:

Biology 2: The information you’ve uncovered is very interesting and regards the Guardians anatomy and physiology, you might be surprised to learn they weren’t that different to us. Their morphology was bipedal, although they were generally taller and more slender than the average human. Their skin tone was red, encompassing the whole spectrum of red hues. There were various reasons for these changes in pigmentation, including genetic disposition and the fact that they darkened as they aged.


CMDR Minion Blob said:
A planet of my own and a gigaship.

Now...Who are you?
Click to expand...

Seconded, want a player owned Capital ship with executive control.
 
Last edited:

Aldaris

A
Cosmo said:
By the way, notice how the Biology entries are written in Past Tense. This further underlines that they're extinct (or at least the original Guardians).

For example:

Biology 2: The information you’ve uncovered is very interesting and regards the Guardians anatomy and physiology, you might be surprised to learn they weren’t that different to us. Their morphology was bipedal, although they were generally taller and more slender than the average human. Their skin tone was red, encompassing the whole spectrum of red hues. There were various reasons for these changes in pigmentation, including genetic disposition and the fact that they darkened as they aged.
Click to expand...

That's hardly surprising. It's talking about the past.
 

Thatchinho

Thatchinho
Cosmo said:
Right, there are a few possibilities:

1. The original Guardians are extinct (see Braben interview of Pax 2017) and History entry 19.
2. Some Guardians survived who went into exile. See History entry 21.
3. The remnants of the Guardians survived: their machines, AI and organisms.

A Guardians Resurrection by the Monolith Network or their AI is highly improbable imo after 1 to 2 million years.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I don’t think any type of resurrection is on the cards.

On the possibilities,

1. Yeah, this seems pretty certain IMHO.

2. Yeah, and it’s a case of what happened to them subsequently. Even without taking what DB said into account, I can’t see regression or stagnation as an option for them which only leaves them having died or having developed.

3. From the mainstream of Guardian society, I would think that anything macroscopic would have been wiped due to habitat destruction and radiation, just as the Guardians were. The machines and AI’s a tricky one to call - some of the sets of data imply that the religious/abolitionist side won, which wouldn’t have boded well for the AI and machines, especially if they weren’t even prepared to use technology to prevent themselves from dying out. Nothing conclusive either way I can see though.

Something that there’s no clear answer to, which is pretty pertinent, is whether any AIs went with the exiles, meaning that some of them would have effectively been AI/Guardian hybrids. There’s enough to say it could have happened, but nothing to say it definitely did or didn’t.

It’s probably safe to say that based on what’s in the data, if the exiles were AI/Guardian hybrids their pace of development would have been exponentially quicker than that if they were just implanted Guardians. (Similar principle applies to the AI, and of course any potential reunion between the exiles and AIs subsequent to the death of the other Guardians.)

Of course there’s also the matter of the Foe/Adversary from the last language data - maybe something wiped out all the Guardians and their remnants. Maybe it was the exiles wiping out the rest of the Guardians although that doesn’t seem particularly likely.


Anyway, as there’s been a bit of a B5 theme going on, I’m just going to say that I think there’s already been signs and portents! :D
 
Last edited:

William J Smith

William J Smith
My take on all of this is exactly the same as its been for a long while

The guardians built the original thargoids as biological entities for warfare, with the end of the guardian race, they were left with nothing to do, and no where to go, so their programming got corrupted.

However , not all the guardians were killed/died out (remember the exiles) and they've been rebuilding and know exactly howto destroy the thargoids., the thargoids encounted the surviving guardians and fled in our direction, running into humanity 100 years ago, and whether by accident or design ended up having a major war with us ... which we won by using a biological weapon
We know the thargoids hate guardian technology so they must have encountered them at some point
Now this all begs the question.... the thargoids are caught between us and whatever they are fleeing from. if they are fleeing active guardians and the guardians find us..... we'll get stomped flat by a violent xenophobic society with access to weapons we can only dream of....
Colonia anyone... or perhaps the rift since we're already surveyed a route out there...

Bill

"I do not believe survival to be a possibilty, but for every day we slow their advance, more ships can escape"
 

Cosmo

Cosmo
William J Smith said:
My take on all of this is exactly the same as its been for a long while

The guardians built the original thargoids as biological entities for warfare, with the end of the guardian race, they were left with nothing to do, and no where to go, so their programming got corrupted.

However , not all the guardians were killed/died out (remember the exiles) and they've been rebuilding and know exactly howto destroy the thargoids., the thargoids encounted the surviving guardians and fled in our direction, running into humanity 100 years ago, and whether by accident or design ended up having a major war with us ... which we won by using a biological weapon
Click to expand...


In the classic Elite lore and according to The Club, the Oresrians were in a civil war with the Klaxians and fled. Then humans got caught up in the middle. The Oresrians and Klaxians are two Thargoid races (dynasties). Your hypothesis is similar, albeit you replaced the Klaxians with Guardians.

If the Guardians are an ancient master species who created many others, that's way too similar to the Engineers in Prometheus and the Xel'naga in the StarCraft storyline.

It's cooler if the Thargoids are an ancient species from another galaxy (which they already conquered). The Guardians should be a completely separate species. Maybe they had a conflict. This would explain why the Thargoid surface sites react violently when Guardian relics are placed inside the unknown device.

If the Thargoids and Guardians were embroiled in a conflict that means the Thargoids are also more than 1 or 2 million years old. The Guardian records don't mention Thargoids though.
 
Last edited:

The Replicated Man

T
Cosmo said:
In the classic Elite lore and according to The Club, the Oresrians were in a civil war with the Klaxians and fled. Then humans got caught up in the middle. The Oresrians and Klaxians are two Thargoid races (dynasties). Your hypothesis is similar, albeit you replaced the Klaxians with Guardians.

If the Guardians are an ancient master species who created many others, that's way too similar to the Engineers in Prometheus and the Xel'naga in the StarCraft storyline.

It's cooler if the Thargoids are an ancient species from another galaxy (which they already conquered). The Guardians should be a completely separate species. Maybe they had a conflict. This would explain why the Thargoid surface sites react violently when Guardian relics are placed inside the unknown device.

If the Thargoids and Guardians were embroiled in a conflict that means the Thargoids are also more than 1 or 2 million years old. The Guardian records don't mention Thargoids though.
Click to expand...

If I am not mistaken the Orserians were often mistaken for their Thargoid counterparts? It the Dark Wheel it mentioned this briefly.
 

Magichp

Magichp
Even if some Guardians did survive the extinction of their species, at least a million years have passed since then... Plenty of time to go extinct again, or to have evolved (naturally or not) into something else, but most likely a Guardian met today wouldn't be the same as a Guardian met 1 million years ago.
The only possibilities I see would be an AI or some sort of data stored consciousness, or that the surviving exiles eventually turned themselves into what we know today as Thargoids. But all that is just theory with little to no evidence. If we stick to the facts and what we actually know, they have been extinct for at least a million years and nothing more.

On the O and K subject, I already made a statement earlier in this thread (and all over the forums for the past three months ^^ ), and that "leaked" screenshot doesn't show "O space" and "K space", but just "Thargoids"... People need to stop bringing this theory out when every new tidbit of info is ignoring it. Yes they exist in lore, and so far they are just lore, something you read when you want to be told some stories about the Elite universe but that doesn't affect gameplay or player experience. Maybe I'll be proved wrong at a later date, but for now this a truth that no one should ignore.
 

Kaltern

Kaltern
*scratches head*

Why do some people feel the need to insist that, because Braben said something in an interview a long time ago, that he MUST be kept to his word, and that all other possibilities are impossible?

If people recall, he continually denied the existence of Thargoids up until their reveal.

I think even David himself would agree: Braben ≠ Lore.

Only things revealed within the game universe itself can be considered lore. Developers/writers and indeed, CEO's cannot just decide something that hasn't actually happened inside the game, can be lore. It would be like Lucas suggesting back when the original trilogy was made, that Luke would go on to found the new generation of Jedi, and he would live out his life in peace. Just because HE might have said something back then (he didn't before you go looking!), doesn't mean that will absolutely come to pass in the future.

We can't hold people to what they might have said in the past in regards to a fantasy game world, that's ludicrous.
 

Cosmo

Cosmo
Kaltern said:
Why do some people feel the need to insist that, because Braben said something in an interview a long time ago, that he MUST be kept to his word, and that all other possibilities are impossible?

I think even David himself would agree: Braben ≠ Lore.
Click to expand...

There are multiple possibilities as to what happened to the Guardians. What he said in the interview shouldn't be dismissed until it's ingame, because he created Elite and knows what's up. There's multiple indications that the original Guardians are extinct. That's not the only possibility though.

If some exiled Guardians survived they're probably quite different from the original ones after 1 to 2 million years.

Kaltern said:
If people recall, he continually denied the existence of Thargoids up until their reveal.
Click to expand...

He hinted at the Thargoids, but didn't literally say they wouldn't return. We knew the Thargoids would come back, because they're iconic aliens.

Kaltern said:
Only things revealed within the game universe itself can be considered lore. Developers/writers and indeed, CEO's cannot just decide something that hasn't actually happened inside the game, can be lore. It would be like Lucas suggesting back when the original trilogy was made, that Luke would go on to found the new generation of Jedi, and he would live out his life in peace. Just because HE might have said something back then (he didn't before you go looking!), doesn't mean that will absolutely come to pass in the future.

We can't hold people to what they might have said in the past in regards to a fantasy game world, that's ludicrous.
Click to expand...

George Lucas' word was the law in the Star Wars universe, because he created and literally owned the Star Wars franchise up until the sale to Disney since he wanted to retire and do other stuff.

People can change their minds and retcon (retroactive continuity) which is also considered in the potential scenarios for the Guardians.
 
Last edited:

Thatchinho

Thatchinho
Kaltern said:
*scratches head*

Why do some people feel the need to insist that, because Braben said something in an interview a long time ago, that he MUST be kept to his word, and that all other possibilities are impossible?

If people recall, he continually denied the existence of Thargoids up until their reveal.

I think even David himself would agree: Braben ≠ Lore.

Only things revealed within the game universe itself can be considered lore. Developers/writers and indeed, CEO's cannot just decide something that hasn't actually happened inside the game, can be lore. It would be like Lucas suggesting back when the original trilogy was made, that Luke would go on to found the new generation of Jedi, and he would live out his life in peace. Just because HE might have said something back then (he didn't before you go looking!), doesn't mean that will absolutely come to pass in the future.

We can't hold people to what they might have said in the past in regards to a fantasy game world, that's ludicrous.
Click to expand...
Can’t recall anything that DB’s said lore wise that has turned out to be false, personally. (Happy to be shown to be wrong as always though! :) )

In this case the statement was just under a month after L4 had finally been found and the mission completed. So that’s a about a months worth of speculation on the full data set and a couple of months worth on partial data sets.

After what had happened with the first site being found via the trailer and the disruption that caused to what FD had planned (and DB commmenting on it), it’s probably safe to say that DB would have known what he said was going to be taken as info and used.

Plus everything in game’s consistent with what he said.

So I reckon it’s pretty safe to treat the statement as lore! :)
 
Last edited:

Aldaris

A
Thatchinho said:
Can’t recall anything that DB’s said lore wise that has turned out to be false, personally. (Happy to be shown to be wrong as always though! :) )

In this case the statement was just under a month after L4 had finally been found and the mission completed. So that’s a about a months worth of speculation on the full data set and a couple of months worth on partial data sets.

After what had happened with the first site being found via the trailer and the disruption that caused to what FD had planned (and DB commmenting on it), it’s probably safe to say that DB would have known what he said was going to be taken as info and used.

Plus everything in game’s consistent with what he said.

So I reckon it’s pretty safe to treat the statement as lore! :)
Click to expand...
Again, it isn't consistent with what we see in game seeing as some of Ram Tah's translation's contradict themselves. There's a massive what if with the exiles. Also, yet again, he's hardly going to drop a massive spoiler by saying "Yeah, these guys you think are extinct aren't".

We simply cannot say for certain in game, and that's the crux of the matter.
 

TuesdayFrog

TuesdayFrog
CMDR Arguendo said:
What? Timestamp? Screenie? Citation needed! Etc etc
Click to expand...

Livestream at 59:58

wozOAg4.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom