Game "Philosophy" question... should people have to "suffer" or "go away?"

[ilo]

Spot on. Any kind of actual real life responsibility, (job, family etc) automatically puts you at a disadvantage.

This happens in this game, and any other game, and any other activity. Go to have a nights drink with your friends? the problem is the next morning with the kids around. Want to study? good luck staying awake overnight. Want to play a game? sorry, you have a life to carry on.

Still does not make ED your game, and does not convert long term objectives a disadvantage. it will take you longer than people without responsibilities, but only that. What did you expect?

CMDR ilodev, flying an eagle after more than 1k hours, father of two. Now what?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

(Actually that was part of the original idea for this game, an offline separate mode anyway, it was also the original Elite if you're old like me!)

No, it really wasn't. Neither original Elite was such game, nor ED offline mode was such game.

This happens in this game, and any other game, and any other activity. Go to have a nights drink with your friends? the problem is the next morning with the kids around. Want to study? good luck staying awake overnight. Want to play a game? sorry, you have a life to carry on.

Still does not make ED your game, and does not convert long term objectives a disadvantage. it will take you longer than people without responsibilities, but only that. What did you expect?

CMDR ilodev, flying an eagle after more than 1k hours, father of two. Now what?

Yeah, life is eating my gaming time away.

Still enjoying ED every time I launch it. Might be even more because it is special each time.

Wouldn't change a single thing about it just because I want to get stuff faster.

 

[Paidtodrive]

Yes, no, wait what was the question? This is Elite right? Clue is in the name. Did you play Elite on 8 bit? Nails and that was totally solo. I've made it to 'mostly harmless' nothing to boast about. Love the game but terrible at playing it. Hell yeah suffer I still haven't met a real person in space and am constantly suckin' vac after interdiction from NPC's in pythons and fdl's. But that is the game. It always has been.

 

[SavingPrincess]

This happens in this game, and any other game, and any other activity.

Games like X-Com, Civilization, StarCraft, the Total War series, which has a fanbase with an immeasurably more "hardcore" core fanbase, all have cheat options... so I don't quite agree with this.

 

[Chaparral]

Didn't know you have to have huge rebuy for that Eagle.

Have you done the rep and mat grind for G5 DD? If you you waited to earn the Sirius rank by just "playing the game" you'd see G5DD in 2030 - maybe.

Silly barriers always meet clever work-arounds developed by bright people. That's the way life works...

 

[Delilah]

A lot of people actively don't think players should experience "all the content" of a game they paid for unless they spend thousands of hours in return.

I grew up in an era of IDKFA and Rosebud... cheat codes to me were always a way to unlock MORE enjoyment of a game, or let me experience all the content I paid for, even if I didn't have the time. I still use things like Cheat Engine (though never in a multiplayer capacity) on PC games, and I miss the days when you could do crazy things through cheat codes.

On a business-level, I get replacing cheat codes with DLC and microtransactions (it sucks, but I understand it)... but what I don't understand, is this weird desire to see other gamers "suffer" based on the way you (as in the royal you) prefer to play your game.

I get it in Elite, there's BGS and Open/Solo are tied together, etc. I'm not really looking to go down that road, but more explore the idea that "Because it took ME a long time to do something, you should have to go through the same..."

To me, that sounds like a way to completely kill a living game... if the content within the game can only be accessed in its entirety by players with infinite free-time, how can I sell this game to my friends?

As it stands right now, most of my friends love video games, and I would love to fly around with them... but I can't sell them on this game. I just can't. They don't have the free time required to "enjoy" this game as its designed, and the question I have, is why do people LIKE that?

Folks are using your mention of old-style cheats to willfully misrepresent and dismiss your point.

Yes, I think that is the intention of many of those advocating that we shut down board flipping, mission stacking, and the like.

Why? Some have made their money, and want to penalize new and casual players. Some are new and casual, and resent that we early adopters earned billions before Frontier began nerfing every moneypot. Still others are just unhappy that someone else is happy. And I haven't mentioned the fan boys or sock puppets who will parrot Frontier's "sense of accomplishment" party line.

Ought this be the case? No. People flock to money making practices because of Frontier's sloppy design of the mission and its rewards mechanic. This is especially true for new and casual players who experience Frontier's time, credit, and reputation gating.

Frontier can easily fix these issues should it choose to do so. It does not care to.

How come? The future is microtransactions. Tencent did not invest in Frontier for nothing.

 

[xondk]

?

People buy a game, if they like it they play it, if they do not they do not, but the purchase is their own choice, and yes, people can make the wrong choice and buy a game that they might not end up liking, this happens, and that is not a fault of the game.

Developers make a game, people buy it, if they like it or not is up to that individual person, and is VERY subjective, and a game developer simply can't cater to everyone, so they have to pick their vision of things and go with that, of course yes, listen to their players, but ultimately it should be the game they want to create and how they want to create it that they supply.

As such developers never really intend for anyone to 'suffer' but their vision is their vision, if they envision a game that lasts over a 1000 hours then that's their vision, and the player that bought the game, and can't get that, well they bought a game they can't enjoy fully, that is not the games fault though.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Have you done the rep and mat grind for G5 DD? If you you waited to earn the Sirius rank by just "playing the game" you'd see G5DD in 2030 - maybe.

Silly barriers always meet clever work-arounds developed by bright people. That's the way life works...

Why I would ever need G5 DD? For a Eagle?

And how it impacts insurance?

 

[SavingPrincess]

No, it really wasn't. Neither original Elite was such game, nor ED offline mode was such game.

Well, you have been heard and I respect your passion. We'll disagree on how someone enjoying a game one way affects your own enjoyment... and the philosophy of "if you don't like it, go somewhere else" but I appreciate you not being insulting etc.

o7

I think opening the game up to more causal players via some offline sandbox mode can help fund a lot of awesome content for the BGS Multiplayer modes... More people buying the game, those "casual players" giving the dev's money while simultaneously not being able to be "causal in front of you" off in their own little pocket universes with no BGS, etc. I think that would make the game you love even better.

 

[Iskariot]

So you'd be cool with an offline only mode not tied to BGS where I could cheat all day?

Completely.
You could cheat to your heart's content and I'd be perfectly happy with that.
I'd sing a happy song for every trillion credits you would add to your account by cheating.
I would also bet you 'd have destroyed your enjoyment of the game within a week.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Well, you have been heard and I respect your passion. We'll disagree on how someone enjoying a game one way affects your own enjoyment... and the philosophy of "if you don't like it, go somewhere else" but I appreciate you not being insulting etc.

o7

I think opening the game up to more causal players via some offline sandbox mode can help fund a lot of awesome content for the BGS Multiplayer modes... More people buying the game, those "casual players" giving the dev's money while simultaneously not being able to be "causal in front of you" off in their own little pocket universes with no BGS, etc. I think that would make the game you love even better.

Sure, but that seems not what majority of people would like to see dev time to go to I am just not a huge fan of 'What If' scenarios.

 

[Winterwalker]

Why I would ever need G5 DD? For a Eagle?

Off topic but .. Imperial Eagle? .. happily!

I'm watching the stream for myself at the moment and Sandy's comment about engineering being an ongoing process is pretty important I think. Why should you button push to have a fully decked ship and why shouldn't it take a while? What do you plan to be doing when Q4 drops? It is what the game kind of is .. your progression through the game IS as much about progressing your ship loadouts, as it is about getting Elite rank, I think.

 

[Maka Gucci]

Why I would ever need G5 DD?

Because there is no match making and you want to play in the first mode on the list without being at a crippling disadvantage.
Perhaps you were talking only about yourself personally, or maybe you where just being facetious.

 

[mp4x]

I think people are putting too much emphasis on "If you don't like it, leave." It's really only saying "If you don't enjoy something than you might want to try doing something you do enjoy" but a bit blunter. It's not an insult, though it gets used out of frustration, it's a piece of common sense and something that nearly everyone applies to nearly everything in their life; if there's no reward or enjoyment - stop doing that thing

 

[Iskariot]

I think people are putting too much emphasis on "If you don't like it, leave." It's really only saying "If you don't enjoy something than you might want to try doing something you do like" but a bit blunter. It's not an insult, though it gets used out of frustration, it's a piece of common sense and something that nearly everyone apples to nearly everything in their life; if there's no reward or enjoyment - stop doing that thing

I think that is spot on.

 

[SavingPrincess]

Sure, but that seems not what majority of people would like to see dev time to go to...

... and that would be different from now... how exactly?



Think of it this way... we have training missions right? Those are instanced, offline, and even the game says "You can still play them even if you don't have an internet connection." How much "dev time" do those existing take away from what they're doing now? (none, it takes none time). I'm really only thinking of something along those lines, just with everything unlocked and access to some kind of dev-console/debug menu, etc.

 

[SavingPrincess]

Completely.
You could cheat to your heart's content and I'd be perfectly happy with that.
I'd sing a happy song for every trillion credits you would add to your account by cheating.
I would also bet you 'd have destroyed your enjoyment of the game within a week.

I mean, no... or else Allen-Smeaton would have done that a long time ago.

Preface: I play in VR.

This game to me works very well as a "Project Cars" in space... Now that I have almost all the ships unlocked (no vette/cutter), I love just flying them around, seeing how differently they handle... bopping around from here to there... doing noting in particular... trying to see if I can fit my Anaconda into spaces my Anaconda definitely can't fit into...

All that content to me would have been inaccessible based on my level of free time without Allen-Smeaton...

now... instead... I have bought (literally) over $120 in cosmetics (for all those ships I collected (https://imgur.com/a/hrzMs) and am a "whale" for FDev...

What did all that do? I ended up financially supporting YOUR experience. And I'm okay with that, as long as I also get to have mine.

 

[krylite]

There's more to Elite than fast tracking to a Cutter and a Billion in the bank...

Not sure why everyone is so focused on that. I wish more people flew smalls...

The sad thing about fast-tracking to a cutter from the start and skipping the regular gameplay, is once acquired many don't even like the cutter for its airliner like drift and slow yaw nor fly it exclusively.

As it stands right now, most of my friends love video games, and I would love to fly around with them... but I can't sell them on this game. I just can't. They don't have the free time required to "enjoy" this game as its designed, and the question I have, is why do people LIKE that?

ED isn't just a single player simulator experience, it's also an MMO with systems that can be affected by the playerbase, granted they have a ways to go for more involved gameplay but there is a whole wealth of gameplay and progression with the smaller ships with many of the medium fun ships hardly out of range of a couple of months or a hundred hours. Even with the passenger nerfs it's still easy to get to an anaconda or t-10 in a few weeks or months. Many seem to stick to the python for much the rest of their time in the game even after having reached the big ships. Think about other mmos like WoW, all those asian mmo's where they don't let a player reach level 100 or get the top tier items in a few weeks.

Frontier is trying to keep a modicum of balance with the game, to stop or curtail the runaway inflation of credits, where they have mistakenly let slide for too long perhaps out of distraction and other priorities. I frankly think this balancing is for their planned future for the game which would include spacelegs which would add a whole new dimension to the game and could fill in a lot of placeholders in the framework.

 

[Valorin]

A lot of people actively don't think players should experience "all the content" of a game they paid for unless they spend thousands of hours in return.

I grew up in an era of IDKFA and Rosebud... cheat codes to me were always a way to unlock MORE enjoyment of a game, or let me experience all the content I paid for, even if I didn't have the time. I still use things like Cheat Engine (though never in a multiplayer capacity) on PC games, and I miss the days when you could do crazy things through cheat codes.

On a business-level, I get replacing cheat codes with DLC and microtransactions (it sucks, but I understand it)... but what I don't understand, is this weird desire to see other gamers "suffer" based on the way you (as in the royal you) prefer to play your game.

I get it in Elite, there's BGS and Open/Solo are tied together, etc. I'm not really looking to go down that road, but more explore the idea that "Because it took ME a long time to do something, you should have to go through the same..."

To me, that sounds like a way to completely kill a living game... if the content within the game can only be accessed in its entirety by players with infinite free-time, how can I sell this game to my friends?

As it stands right now, most of my friends love video games, and I would love to fly around with them... but I can't sell them on this game. I just can't. They don't have the free time required to "enjoy" this game as its designed, and the question I have, is why do people LIKE that?

I actually don't really care what others do. Balance is a nice thing, more so in a multiplayer game, but since I don't PvP I don't really care. And that's the problem here. Competitive players need some kind of balance to measure skill. What I don't really understand is, why people go bonkers when others get something they had to "work" for. Like with the rank requirements for ships lately. Nothing is taken away from them. It's just that others get the same stuff without the same effort. I mean, that's a good thing. Nobody loses anything, people just gain something. Everything else is just jealousy.
When I think back to gaming back then, people just took games as they were and done. I think all these complaints and discussions are often just slowing down development and interrupt the whole process. Player input might be a good thing, but the forum being on fire everytime something changes is just stupid.

 

[ilo]

How much "dev time" do those existing take away from what they're doing now? (none, it takes none time). I'm really only thinking of something along those lines, just with everything unlocked and access to some kind of dev-console/debug menu, etc.

NONE, it takes NONE TIME, I'm assuming it is the ignorance speaking here. Can we call the experience. please?