News Dove Enigma and the Enigma Expedition

[Juluka]

Subsynk

If I read anything into your post that you didn't intend, I apologise. While I was trying to reply in a considered manner I was deeply angered by what happened to Dove Enigma, and that may well still be colouring the way I'm reading posts on here today.

As I said I do understand your logic, and can see how it would be a solution. I do still feel dealing with the actual cause is a better solution, but the most important thing is that create a better community. In the end how that is achieved will have to be decided by F-Dev. [smile]

 

[SuBSynk]

Subsynk

If I read anything into your post that you didn't intend, I apologise. While I was trying to reply in a considered manner I was deeply angered by what happened to Dove Enigma, and that may well still be colouring the way I'm reading posts on here today.

As I said I do understand your logic, and can see how it would be a solution. I do still feel dealing with the actual cause is a better solution, but the most important thing is that create a better community. In the end how that is achieved will have to be decided by F-Dev. [smile]

All good Juluka, no need to apologise. It's a sensitive subject & i could have worded my post better.

I too am disgusted -but unfortunately not surprised- that anyone would go out of their way to be so negative. It's an unfortunate aspect of the "internet age" i suppose, lack of repercussions etc.

The good thing about this whole affair is that the positive actions of the community far outweigh the negative few.

 

[Lee Archer]

oh my - VR, Stellar Forge- guess we have it pretty good.

 

[Frankymole]

Now its got to the point that they are apologising for their game mechanics -even though they are working as intended- as they are being used to affect the life of a player & their out of game situation.

As I said up-thread, the group behind this did it as part of their crusade against what they view as the broken BGS. They want to show it is broken, and by getting FDev to step in to subvert their own game mechanic, I guess they succeeded.

 

[Manticore]

What he says:

He didn't compare them at any point, simply stated other examples where we don't really understand entirely why anyone would do that. Might not have been the best examples but his intent was entirely clear - this is just playing awkward.

It shows you from the responses in this thread what people's real agendas are in this game, eh?

I could claim I click-baited but that wasn't my intention.

It never ceases to amaze me how people will try and support an unsupportable position because they are probably as culpable as any other person with the "intent" to commit a crime; whether in the real or virtual worlds....

..... give 'em enough rope. C'mon FD time to hang a few of these people with "bad intent" out to dry.

 

[KillerDM]

I think some people should realize that CMDR Dove Enigma is playing this expedition with his daughter.

A child.

There is a child involved.

I am sure many people will continue to act stupidly and not care, but I am hopeful that SOME of those that may not have cared before might rethink their thoughts considering this is a father-daughter event where the daughter is having final memories with her dying father.

I know that this never went far from my mind before all this happened and it definitely was foremost when I sided once more to try to give a dying father and his daughter some good, clean, complete fun before he dies.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

I think some people should realize that CMDR Dove Enigma is playing this expedition with his daughter.

A child.

There is a child involved.

I am sure many people will continue to act stupidly and not care, but I am hopeful that SOME of those that may not have cared before might rethink their thoughts considering this is a father-daughter event where the daughter is having final memories with her dying father.

I know that this never went far from my mind before all this happened and it definitely was foremost when I sided once more to try to give a dying father and his daughter some good, clean, complete fun before he dies.

Sorry but it probably gives them more "lulz".

After multiple events derailed by a minority of players, frequently using exploits such as the engineering one and them still being active in game, I won't hold my breath for any fitting punishment being dished out to the low lifes that did this.

 

[lokvette]

Isn't it time this was put to bed, or are we all enjoying the contestant bad taste washing about our mouths. A bad thing was done, the bad thing got fixed.

 

[Heater]

Sad pathetic people.

 

[frostypaw]

I know that this never went far from my mind before all this happened and it definitely was foremost when I sided once more to try to give a dying father and his daughter some good, clean, complete fun before he dies.

Pretty sure that's why the unenforced EULA exists, but apparently letting people mess with and laugh at it is ok - which is why I'm quite so disappointed in FD's reaction so far.

Give up and put an age limit on the game and admit what you'll let go on.

 

[Old Duck]

Isn't it time this was put to bed, or are we all enjoying the contestant bad taste washing about our mouths. A bad thing was done, the bad thing got fixed.

I won't be surprised if the mods lock the thread, and rightfully so, as it's devolving into the same rage-filled mess that resulted in the closer of all the other related threads.... Somebody beat me to this quote from "Beyond Good and Evil", but it seems appropriate:

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster himself. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

 

[lokvette]

I won't be surprised if the mods lock the thread, and rightfully so, as it's devolving into the same rage-filled mess that resulted in the closer of all the other related threads.... Somebody beat me to this quote from "Beyond Good and Evil", but it seems appropriate:

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster himself. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

Its becoming a bit like dragging the already very dead horse through the mud. the problem was solved let's move on.

 

[Juluka]

Its becoming a bit like dragging the already very dead horse through the mud. the problem was solved let's move on.

No, the mess the problem created was cleaned up, but the problem remains the same.

However, you are right in that the community should move on. The only people who could solve the actual problem are F-Dev. Will they solve the problem? Well, that remains to be seen.

 

[Goose4291]

But it isn't legitimate. Its a memorial for a dying person. And trying to act like that behavior is somehow not harrassment, but actually is something that should be tolerated is ridiculous.

Please cite where a UA attack isnt a legitimate gameplay choice.

He didn't compare them at any point, simply stated other examples where we don't really understand entirely why anyone would do that. Might not have been the best examples but his intent was entirely clear - this is just playing awkward.

I'm sorry, but to me bringing real life atrocities in as a parallel for discussing a UA attack for reasons unknown on a spacestation is comparing the two in my book.

Paticularly when you dont know the motive of the attack.

What he says:

It shows you from the responses in this thread what people's real agendas are in this game, eh?.

Considering my 'agenda' with this issue was that we as a community fixed it rather than crying to big daddy fdev to god mod it, and not to crucify someone on the altar of internet social justice (like we did when that fuel rat was assassinated) when we dont know their motives, I suspect my 'agenda' might be more balanced than yours and everyone else wishing the perpetrators to contract cancer and the ilk.

I think some people should realize that CMDR Dove Enigma is playing this expedition with his daughter.

A child.

There is a child involved.

Just when I thought the social justice warrior facebook prose couldnt get any worse.

 

[Kaocraft]

I think some people should realize that CMDR Dove Enigma is playing this expedition with his daughter.

A child.

There is a child involved.

I am sure many people will continue to act stupidly and not care, but I am hopeful that SOME of those that may not have cared before might rethink their thoughts considering this is a father-daughter event where the daughter is having final memories with her dying father.

I know that this never went far from my mind before all this happened and it definitely was foremost when I sided once more to try to give a dying father and his daughter some good, clean, complete fun before he dies.

Talk like this does not help your position and it's not a good look. You should be embarrassed.

Show us any evidence that Dove Enigma was targeted deliberately to taunt a specific person, rather than being an incidental target of an ongoing and pre-existing campaign of UA bombing in the Colonia region. Show me how the UA bombing has any direct impact on the Enigma Expedition, or jeopardizes that project in any way. Do either of those two things and I'll pick up a pitchfork and join you.

Until then, I'm going to call out this kind of manipulative concern-trolling as the disgusting behavior that it is.

 

[Livyathan]

Let me get this right for you : people are playing the way they want within the framework of the game rules.

Actually, FDev state in the OP of this thread that it was not within the framework of the game rules.

"The team have spent their evening investigating the deliveries and they believe the use of a known exploit is possible. We take the use of exploits very seriously, and we will continue the investigation. Should there be evidence of any exploit in use, we will take appropriate action against any commanders found to be using them. The exploit believed to have been used here has already been fixed in the current 3.0 beta, and the fix should be making its way to the live game when the Beyond – Chapter One update goes live."

 

[Goose4291]

The team have spent their evening investigating the deliveries and they believe the use of a known exploit is possible. We take the use of exploits very seriously, and we will continue the investigation. Should there be evidence of any exploit in use, we will take appropriate action against any commanders found to be using them. The exploit believed to have been used here has already been fixed in the current 3.0 beta, and the fix should be making its way to the live game when the Beyond – Chapter One update goes live.

Would this be the same instance flipping exploit they know about, and people used to harvest MA's to fix the station?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Actually, FDev state in the OP of this thread that it was not within the framework of the game rules.

They state in the text you quoted that it's *possible* that it wasn't within it, that further investigation is needed, and that action will be taken if warranted in case of exploits. That's not stating that exploits definitely were used.

Having read the various threads on the subject, I find it hard to believe that very many of those calling for action to be taken against the UA bombers would change their minds were it to be revealed that their actions had been entirely through normal game mechanics. "What" rather than "how" seemed to be the objection most people had.

The only people's minds it might change would be those taking the view that "if it was an exploit Frontier should just reverse it rather than waiting for the community to do so" ... which has also in practice been irrelevant since the community response was faster than the investigation anyway - sure, Frontier could decide in a couple of days it was an exploit and zero the station's UA count as a result ... but the visible in-game effect of this will be nothing.

 

[MarrV]

If you remove the ethics of what occurred from the situation;

You have Fdev saying their team "believe the use of a known exploit is possible"
You have the existence of a bug, that has been around for a while that facilitates this

That said it is not impossible for a group of players, as it would have to be a group to transport enough UA's 22,000 ly's (can be done in a day, each way (50 jumps per hour, 57.75ly range, 22t per trip using a build like https://eddp.co/u/PBpNweYh) so 7 hours 36 minutes) to create this situation. (if they get god rolls on fsd's & lightweight sensors)

The current amount of UA's needed is unknown (I found a figure, but in the same thread they stated that figure to be no longer accurate due to UA's having taken a nerf to their effectiveness).

So you either have a group of players picking on a cancer sufferer (if so please go back to EvE) or the use of a bug, now considered an exploit. As a community people would prefer the latter.

Yet if these people did do it the former way, by moving UA's 22,000 ly's in corrosive resistant cargo holds, then they shall just be reviled by the community instead of banned from it. (In an abstract concept as the perpetrators are unlikely to stand up and say "it was me"). On the balance of probabilities, it would say the use of the bug is more likely.

 

[frostypaw]

Show us any evidence that Dove Enigma was targeted deliberately to taunt a specific person, rather than being an incidental target of an ongoing and pre-existing campaign of UA bombing in the Colonia region. Show me how the UA bombing has any direct impact on the Enigma Expedition, or jeopardizes that project in any way. Do either of those two things and I'll pick up a pitchfork and join you.

Until then, I'm going to call out this kind of manipulative concern-trolling as the disgusting behavior that it is.

It's been specifically admitted to be so on reddit by the person who did it - all purposefully done to see how much upset it caused and to give them a laugh.

DoveEnigma has specifically stated how much this upset him.

The disgusting thing is the frantic defending of this at all costs - what kind of person struggles and strains to defend this?