Modes 5 minutes in Open...

[frostypaw]

There really should be a warning when people join Open mode.
Something you have to click "I Accept" on every time you try to join Open mode.
Just to make it really clear. Open = Possibly be shot at and killed for no reason.

Have that or not doesn't mean people have to like it, nor that people can't say so.

It's all good and fine that PvPers like it so, it's even ok that FDev dream it can all work out - only the players can feed back that it's not working out and that lots of people are turned off by it, and with that data FDev can see how much those people harm their game and how many people get put off from continuing to play because of it.

 

[Jockey79]

Have that or not doesn't mean people have to like it, nor that people can't say so.

It's all good and fine that PvPers like it so, it's even ok that FDev dream it can all work out - only the players can feed back that it's not working out and that lots of people are turned off by it, and with that data FDev can see how much those people harm their game and how many people get put off from continuing to play because of it.

Some of the complaints on here are because people don't know or understand that Open is PvP enabled or that players don't need a reason to shoot other players.
Putting a warning explaining this and advice on Solo / Private Groups on the main screen would go a long way to solving some of these issues.

You also don't get told when there is a reason for you to be shot at, like when the mission system decides you qualify as a mission target.
I didn't even know players could be mission targets until I was about to wing with a friend one day and seen they were tagged as a mission target for my mission to kill traders.
So not all "random" kills are without a reason.

And it does not matter if people "like it" or not.
Frontier made a PvPvE game. Not a PvE only game.
Getting shot at is part of the game if you're in Open Mode.

 

[frostypaw]

And it does not matter if people "like it" or not.

Which is why you're not in charge of a big and successful games company.

It absolutely matters if people like it or not. If you're losing 1/3rd+ of players immediately due to people being pricks then it's a major issue.

Generally the pattern continues to repeat exactly as it always has - nobody has a problem with PvP just with their attitude - if y'all can't behave and learn to play with others then the adults will have to step in. Considering the small size of the PvP community and the smaller fraction of that who can't manage to be even faintly sociable about it then it's really not a big loss compared to the numbers being driven away by their issues.

Simple maths and business. Group of players driving many others away? Dispose of them.

 

[Brrokk]

Which is why you're not in charge of a big and successful games company.

It absolutely matters if people like it or not. If you're losing 1/3rd+ of players immediately due to people being pricks then it's a major issue.

Generally the pattern continues to repeat exactly as it always has - nobody has a problem with PvP just with their attitude - if y'all can't behave and learn to play with others then the adults will have to step in. Considering the small size of the PvP community and the smaller fraction of that who can't manage to be even faintly sociable about it then it's really not a big loss compared to the numbers being driven away by their issues.

Simple maths and business. Group of players driving many others away? Dispose of them.

I'm actually surprised that FD have never shown motivation to do anything about "seal clubbing". It must be costing them significant losses of potential players and reputation. The fact that we haven't heard of player accounts being banned for this shows that they are really amazingly pro-PvP; not anti as is sometimes claimed. I guess the new C&P is aimed at this problem but it seems a very low-key response.

 

[frostypaw]

I'm actually surprised that FD have never shown motivation to do anything about "seal clubbing". It must be costing them significant losses of potential players and reputation. The fact that we haven't heard of player accounts being banned for this shows that they are really amazingly pro-PvP; not anti as is sometimes claimed. I guess the new C&P is aimed at this problem but it seems a very low-key response.

They've made the terrible mistake of inviting one of these groups into the core feedback community, not aware that this has just made them the target for more gaming and reallifePvP.

From the sounds of some recent communication they're becoming aware of how skewed that feedback is and how disproportionately loud that community is. I'm 100% sure the new C+P stuff is designed to try and help this with the notoriety scores etc - when they see what gets done with that I'm sure the penny will drop.

 

[Sylveria]

I'm actually surprised that FD have never shown motivation to do anything about "seal clubbing". It must be costing them significant losses of potential players and reputation. The fact that we haven't heard of player accounts being banned for this shows that they are really amazingly pro-PvP; not anti as is sometimes claimed. I guess the new C&P is aimed at this problem but it seems a very low-key response.

They don't do anything about them for a few reasons, but the simplest being... money.

As I've said before- they won't take a stand either way because it profits them to remain quiet as long as people are buying copies of the game. When it starts hitting their balance sheet, they'll start looking at making major changes- and it won't be up to any single person at FD once that happens.

As to the "why", Seal clubbers serve as a "catalyst" in Open. It's really that simple. They're basically "tools" of FD, helping to promote how "dangerous" Elite is supposed to be.

As I've also said before, C&P 3.0 doesn't go far enough- but it's a good start in FD's acknowledgment that there's a problem to begin with. By their acknowledgement alone, they've really spoken volumes that the PvP player base alone would not be enough to sustain their balance sheet and keep this ship in the sky. Anyone who considers that point as "speculation" should consider one question... If they've been "fine" for years and the PvP base *would* sustain this game- why would they even bother to introduce changes to C&P? Why not just leave the game as it was?

Patience is key to strategy.

 

[danteuk]

The sad part is how much time and effort has to be put into C & P for sake of a few PvP'ers that can't play nice.

Personally if add a new mode:
PvP Only Mode ( with report Crimes forced to Off )

If a player in Open gets a notoriety score too high then they are banned from Open mode for a couple of weeks and forced to only use PvP Mode / PG / Solo

I strongly believe once 3.0 Chapter 1 drops this will be simple and effective solution to the problem.

 

[jasonbarron]

They've made the terrible mistake of inviting one of these groups into the core feedback community, not aware that this has just made them the target for more gaming and reallifePvP.

From the sounds of some recent communication they're becoming aware of how skewed that feedback is and how disproportionately loud that community is. I'm 100% sure the new C+P stuff is designed to try and help this with the notoriety scores etc - when they see what gets done with that I'm sure the penny will drop.

That's an interesting allegation. What group are you talking about, and when you say "invited in for core feedback" what do you mean exactly?

 

[frostypaw]

when you say "invited in for core feedback" what do you mean exactly?

I don't believe I said those words anywhere in my message that you quoted so people can see that's not what I said.

 

[jasonbarron]

I don't believe I said those words anywhere in my message that you quoted so people can see that's not what I said.

Well, I paraphrased you admittedly, but I kept the essence of your statement, and politely asked for clarification. Instead of being defensive and looking for the trap, why not try to just accept at face value the fact that I didn't know what you meant and was simply intrigued and curious?

 

[frostypaw]

Well, I paraphrased you admittedly, but I kept the essence of your statement, and politely asked for clarification. Instead of being defensive and looking for the trap, why not try to just accept at face value the fact that I didn't know what you meant and was simply intrigued and curious?

It seemed rather disingenuous and as though you were going to twist what was said. I thought it was common knowledge that there are gold/AAA groups that they actually physically meet with

 

[jasonbarron]

It seemed rather disingenuous and as though you were going to twist what was said. I thought it was common knowledge that there are gold/AAA groups that they actually physically meet with

No, not common knowledge, at least to me. I am admittedly "uncommon" though. As far as being disingenuous, that wasn't it, I simply worded my question awkwardly.

 

[frostypaw]

No, not common knowledge, at least to me. I am admittedly "uncommon" though. As far as being disingenuous, that wasn't it, I simply worded my question awkwardly.

Cool sorry for being jumpy - it seems to be the flavour du jour in discussion lately so I'm all twitchy for it.

 

[jasonbarron]

Cool sorry for being jumpy - it seems to be the flavour du jour in discussion lately so I'm all twitchy for it.

jasonbarron & frostypaw in joint therapy from Post Traumatic Forum Disorder:

 

[frostypaw]

jasonbarron & frostypaw in joint therapy from Post Traumatic Forum Disorder:
https://media3.giphy.com/media/o6kIScfjIawE0/giphy.gif

I've created a special extra key that just replies "but that's not what I said..." to facebook, gonna make millions.

 

[olorin]

Whatever the motive is behind this senseless and pathological behavior, it is collapsing with my ship self-destructing.
I can afford it.
Can you see my middle finger?

 

[UmbraRex]

They've made the terrible mistake of inviting one of these groups into the core feedback community, not aware that this has just made them the target for more gaming and reallifePvP.

From the sounds of some recent communication they're becoming aware of how skewed that feedback is and how disproportionately loud that community is. I'm 100% sure the new C+P stuff is designed to try and help this with the notoriety scores etc - when they see what gets done with that I'm sure the penny will drop.

That's an interesting allegation. What group are you talking about, and when you say "invited in for core feedback" what do you mean exactly?

I don't believe I said those words anywhere in my message that you quoted so people can see that's not what I said.

Highlighted for clarity

 

[frostypaw]

Highlighted for clarity

You'll have noticed the wording is slightly different during the course of that I expect.

 

[UmbraRex]

You'll have noticed the wording is slightly different during the course of that I expect.

The meaning of the phrase did not change.

The 'quote' should not have been in quotes as is was not, in fact, a direct quote, I'll grant you that.

That said, you haven't answered the question posed...

 

[Jockey79]

Which is why you're not in charge of a big and successful games company.

Who said?

It absolutely matters if people like it or not. If you're losing 1/3rd+ of players immediately due to people being pricks then it's a major issue.

And how did you get to that figure?

No one knows if Frontier have lost any customers or not due to people getting shot at in game.
But as it was never advertised as a PvE Only game, I doubt Frontier has lost that many.
Just as it was never advertised as a PvP Only game and PvE players are still here.

Now who shouldn't be in charge of anything?
Making up facts/figures to suit your argument ends badly - just ask Carillon.

Generally the pattern continues to repeat exactly as it always has - nobody has a problem with PvP just with their attitude - if y'all can't behave and learn to play with others then the adults will have to step in. Considering the small size of the PvP community and the smaller fraction of that who can't manage to be even faintly sociable about it then it's really not a big loss compared to the numbers being driven away by their issues.

Again, you cannot prove anyone has been driven away - pushed out of open in to the Mobius group, sure we see that all the time.
But constantly repeating fiction doesn't make it true.

Simple maths and business. Group of players driving many others away? Dispose of them.

Again, proof of people getting driven away?

Also, you're wrong. The best businesses keep as many customers as possible. So Frontier will find a way to keep both sides.
Hence why they are looking at C&P and not just banning people. They want money from everyone, not just those you like.

You also want to accuse Jason of twisting your words and setting forum traps while completely ignoring the context of what I wrote and quoting out of context comments.
Pot <-> Kettle