It's getting pretty crowded under this bridge.
Why are we being robbed of grade 5 in the engineering conversion for no reason?
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It's getting pretty crowded under this bridge.
No, you really don't. Literally everything you typed is wrong in some significant way.
No, not necessarily uber rolls, but at least close to the upper end of the Grade 5 range for most of my Grade 5 modules. Which considering I have 28 Engineered ships is a substantial amount of work.
I don't "feel" that. It's not an "opinion" or a "feeling" it's what FD is literally doing by dramatically changing the Engineering blueprints without converting the existing Grade 5 mods appropriately.
No, it's not "nothing" considering how many ships I've put Engineering grind into. it's a considerable amount of time when you add it on top of the Grade 5 grind I've already done over all of my ships. The fact that I've already done quite a bit of Grade 5 rolls over 2 years doesn't mean I want to add another 10 rolls per module on every single ship I have Engineered.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I have no problem with the existing Grade 5 grind being made easier. I have problems with having to do it again without all of my prior work being appropriately converted into the new Grade 5 range.
No, I understand perfectly well. I've explained many times that they want all players to repeat another Engineering grind due to the lack of actual game content.
You've missed basically everything, as I've noted above.
Sorry, what does this even mean? Are you suggesting the RNG works differently for myself compared to other players? Averaged over all of the Grade 5 modules on my 28 Engineered ships I should have a very representative sample of Grade 5 mods compared to other players.
No, you really don't. You have a very inaccurate understanding of the issue from what you've posted.
You don't even understand the argument that myself and others are making here so referring to how I "feel" about the issue makes very little sense.
Except that you really don't understand.
Except it doesn't when they don't convert the previous Grade 5 modules into the new range.
Not at all the same concept here. As I've mentioned several times.
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I said want the best. Didnt day that i got it. I rolled hundreds and hundreds especially for drives and fsd and never got what i wanted.
Yes, probably easier on the new system to get the best of the best, but thats the reason we should forget that the hundreds of those previous G5 rolls will only get us... a perfect G4, right? Its laughable the way our rolls on the stupid rng system is going down to the trash, just because now will be easier to hit the top. Maybe i should say thanks mate?
And let me ask you something about your amazing fleet of 20 ships. You said SO MANY of your ships share C5 thrusters? Lol. Whats your fleet made of? Dolphins? Now i know why you like the new system. Try engineering a conda for pvp with all those internals and utillities and weapons before coming back with an opinion.
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I have to say, your hubris is quite astounding. NOONE else in any of your threads has ever come on and agreed this is a Very Important Issue. Only you, in your self-important passive-aggressive responses to posts have decided this thread is so important, that disagreement is irrelevant.
The bottom line, is you are a part of an incredibly small number of like-minded players. As such, you have to adapt, or move on, because nothing is going to change, unless a large majority of people agree with your points, and put it to FDev in a clear, constructive manner.
Is the new Engineering system perfect? No, not even close. However, Gameplay for the majority of players is unaffected by grandfathering, and in all fairness, that's all that matters.
And I've seen very, very few people agreeing with the points made here. I suspect you're just continuing this discussion for unconstructive purposes.
Ok, so you're upset that you have to re-accomplish the amount of time you've already invested if you want modules that are at the new maximum G5 levels?
Quit with he crying. Grab yourself. Give yourself a shake. Move on.
I have 100's of hours in g5 grinds. The 100's of crack, pharma etc has left its mark, but this change, I really don't give one.
Now, about solo/Pg/open
I have 100's of hours in g5 grinds. The 100's of crack, pharma etc has left its mark, but this change, I really don't give one.
Now, about solo/Pg/open
That's a helluva way to respond to somebody who was trying to sympathise with you.
Edit: Actually, having now seen the above quoted post, don't even waste your time reading this because it's abundantly clear that I may as well have written it in sanskrit for all the resonance it will have with you.
I know I said I was out but sorry, I can't let that slide. I genuinely cannot believe that you're still posting that.
The last person I encountered who could utter that line and expect to be taken seriously was a teacher in infant school. You are talking to adults here; do you really imagine that it's reasonable to demand that they first prove that they meet your standard of being worthy to comment by providing an executive summary of your concerns? I mean is that behaviour that you encounter regularly in any area of your life?
I bet people love chatting to you at work.
'Hey Devari, did you see the footy last night Great result for Liverpool against Porto.'
'Hmmm. I'll tell you what Crispin. Perhaps if you're able to demonstrate to me that you have some understanding of Liverpool's historical standard of performance in the competition, both in general and specifically against Portuguese opposition, I may be willing to engage in conversation about the topic with you'
'Errr... well they've won it five times haven't they? Used to be pretty good in the 80s too'
'Goodbye Crispin, you are dead to me now'
Seriously mate, it's just incredibly rude and dismissive. That is why you are putting people's backs up, because you are addressing people who do anything other than agree with you as if they are imbeciles. Can you really not accept at all that it is possible for someone to fully grasp the issues and simply not attach such critical importance to them as you do?
As Ancalagon said above, I'm not in any way telling you that you're 'wrong' to hold your opinion, or to make your own assessment of what the changes mean for you, but you seem be fundamentally rejecting the fact that it remains a personal perspective with no more (or less) validity than any other player's.
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Personal attacks don't contribute to discussion here any more than trolling does.
This isn't actually my thread. I only have one thread on this topic but there are several others describing the same problem.
Again with the personal attacks. Going to have to report that.
You actually have no idea how many players are being affected by this issue.
He wasn't "sympathizing" with me at all. He demonstrated that he either completely misunderstood or was intentionally misrepresenting the entire argument that has been brought up in this thread and several others.
sigh...
keep modules currently at G5. Get new modules and upgrade, simple.
keep modules currently at G5. Get new modules and upgrade, simple.
Its amazing to see so many people being ok despite their efforts being thrown out the window, just because the devs are so lazy to come up with a decent conversion system and just because the numbers will be better than before.
We are sheep myself included, and we deserve more things like power play, cqc and multicrew. Give us more.
We are sheep myself included, and we deserve more things like power play, cqc and multicrew. Give us more.
Probably because you still haven't shown that you actually understand the issue. The majority of responses to this thread have involved either denial or blatant misrepresentation of the entire issue to avoid legitimate discussion. Many posters have even resorted to personal attacks in their attempts to suppress discussion of a tremendously important gameplay issue that has been raised in numerous threads and still has zero response from FD.
You really do need to re-read this thread, and the other similar threads, to understand the issue properly.
I'm suggesting very clearly that prior mods should be converted appropriately into the new system. That won't put them all at the new Grade 5 maximum but it should put most of them in the upper end of the new Grade 5 range if FD is converting the amount of work involved in a reasonable manner. It might take another 2-3 rolls to max out many of the converted modules but it should absolutely not take another 10 rolls (or whatever the RNG gives you) as if you're starting the entire Grade 5 process again from zero.
FD had no problem nerfing everyone's modules into new lower ranges for "game balance" when they applied Engineering nerfs yet somehow doesn't apply that same logic going in the other direction. The obvious motivation here is that FD wants everyone, including players who have already Engineered their ships with large numbers of Grade 5 rolls, to be putting in massive efforts into the new system so that their "metrics" show that players are "playing the game" despite the very obvious lack of new content.
Myself and others have been clearly indicating that prior Engineering effort should be valued appropriately when converted into the new Grade 5 system. For some reason this point has been missed (probably quite intentionally) by many posters who have tried to frame the discussion as "whining" or "complaining" or similarly dismissing a very legitimate concern.
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Oh well, I guess I can't complain when I advise that you don't read a post of mine and you don't.
I have to say that when I'm confronted with lots of people who apparently don't understand an issue, the first thing I tend to do is question how I could have done a better job of explaining it rather than hectoring them and implying that they are trolls, morons or both. Having said that, my job requires me to explain often relatively complex issues to people with no appropriate professional background pretty much all the time, so perhaps I'm just a little more tolerant than most when handling such situations.
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Firstly, sympathy rep' for attempting to be understanding and getting reamed for your efforts.
Thing is, are we really saying that people who have spent two years grinding away to get uber G5 mod's are suddenly going to throw all their toys out of their prams and absolutely refuse to spend any more time grinding even if it means they'll end up with even better mod's than they had before?
Cos, that seems a bit hard-headed to me.
Anybody who's made a substantial effort at modding is obviously interested in improving their ships and is prepared to put in a lot of effort to achieve that.
So why get so salty about the changes rather than looking forward to an opportunity to improve a ship even more?
Let's face it, a current G5 "god roll" might have taken hundreds of rolls to achieve and, after dropping back to G4 in the new system, you'll be able to get back to an equivalent improvement with around 15 rolls.
Why would anybody who's prepared to spend hundreds of rolls to achieve something get salty about having to do another 15 rolls before they can go on to get something even better?
Except that myself and others have explained the concepts several times in this thread and in other threads and there should be no difficulty understanding the core issues if you are honestly trying to do that. At least CMDR ANCALAGON was able to describe the view of the issue as he understood it, despite various misconceptions or misunderstandings, and there was an opportunity there to clarify the issues that were being misunderstood. You haven't done that (or even made any attempt to do so) which is why I arrived at those conclusions about trolling.
At some point I have to call a spade a spade, and if that involves trolling, denial of an issue, intentionally misrepresenting what I'm saying or even personal attacks (all of which has happened in this thread) I'm going to call it exactly what it is.
Do you see the hypocrisy in calling people who disagree with you "trolls" while, at the same time, whining about "personal attacks"?