The internal contradiction of Elite Dangerous.
- Thread starter CMNDRMK
- Start date
I more a having fun at destination guy.
I do like a multiple day treck. I despise 12 of motorway driving.
A lot of ED grind gameplay in ED is like 12h of motorway : boring, monotonous and exhausting.
Frontier’s mistake was making ship progression the only long term goal and prospect. It’s meant that people have confused starvation over time, with a sense of accomplishment. It felt good because it took FAR TOO LONG and that wasn’t satisfaction at a job well done, it was the euphoria of exhaustion at finally accessing another ship.
Frontier invented a time and credit sink game; and then compromised it by locking everything behind laborious credit gain. And commanders have now become obsessed with the notion if it was just exhausting again it’d be amazing.
Don’t confuse a sense of enjoyment, that a progression system can offer, with the euphoria of exhaustion. They are not the same thing. This is a time and credit sink game. Frontier has forever struggled with how to manage that.
The reason cash grabs are so popular, is Frontier never sorted out other things that should have the time invested. Ships have become the defacto. Presumably engineering was to become the progression system. So much for that idea.
Frontier has a lot of work to do, to solve this. But enshrining horrific exhaustion as a method to progress is a non-solution. It’s looking at the past and ignoring how bad it was, because it seemed simpler. That’s called nostalgia.
I remember getting an Asp. Oh boy it was amazing. And then I realised the hill in front of me and quickly came to the conclusion that since I’d done everything in Cobra already, and that every other ship was just a different view to the exact same mechanics, I suddenly realised what was going on.
You can do everything in a Cobra or Adder. It feels good to unlock those because that’s the last point what ship you use really changes anything. After that, it’s just how efficient at it you are! That’s the last time you essentially are able to access all the game’s mechanics.
It’s not so much the ship, it’s the access to content. Once you hit Asp or whatever, that’s when it flatlines and you realise medium/ large ships lead to efficiency and oh boy do you need credits.
Frontier’s challenge has always been adding long term constructs to the game. Ships shouldn’t have ever been the one and only progression. They are too important, to be relegated in that fashion.
Frontier invented a time and credit sink game; and then compromised it by locking everything behind laborious credit gain. And commanders have now become obsessed with the notion if it was just exhausting again it’d be amazing.
Don’t confuse a sense of enjoyment, that a progression system can offer, with the euphoria of exhaustion. They are not the same thing. This is a time and credit sink game. Frontier has forever struggled with how to manage that.
The reason cash grabs are so popular, is Frontier never sorted out other things that should have the time invested. Ships have become the defacto. Presumably engineering was to become the progression system. So much for that idea.
Frontier has a lot of work to do, to solve this. But enshrining horrific exhaustion as a method to progress is a non-solution. It’s looking at the past and ignoring how bad it was, because it seemed simpler. That’s called nostalgia.
I remember getting an Asp. Oh boy it was amazing. And then I realised the hill in front of me and quickly came to the conclusion that since I’d done everything in Cobra already, and that every other ship was just a different view to the exact same mechanics, I suddenly realised what was going on.
You can do everything in a Cobra or Adder. It feels good to unlock those because that’s the last point what ship you use really changes anything. After that, it’s just how efficient at it you are! That’s the last time you essentially are able to access all the game’s mechanics.
It’s not so much the ship, it’s the access to content. Once you hit Asp or whatever, that’s when it flatlines and you realise medium/ large ships lead to efficiency and oh boy do you need credits.
Frontier’s challenge has always been adding long term constructs to the game. Ships shouldn’t have ever been the one and only progression. They are too important, to be relegated in that fashion.
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I have played the "ear;y game" twice now, that it seems a lot less fun now is one of the points of the OP. Have not watched any videos or whatever.
The point is that you can rush through the early game now as rewards are so high for so little work. Not sure how much of your post addresses that.
They don't - players do that all by themselves. FDev's publicity stuff is mostly Cobras.
My post is (i hope) saying the focus of development should be on that early game and keeping it fun, that only listening to the portion of more established players who focus only on the late game and encourage such high earnings so they can fly big ships and treat the game like a shoot'em'up would be a foolish move.
Thats the issue, Once people have this ship they see no progression, they think there is progression after getting the other ships, and then, the two disappointments happen. relaising the grind for better ones. wher epeople jump off. Or those going to dot he grind realising it wasn't worth it.
Same thing.
however I know when others I palyed with stopped the game, sure just a smaller sample. But then also FD changed their old roadmap and brought beyond in. They dont do that for no reason. Yes it's sad, they could have said: we se many players leave at situation X and Y and ask the players what we think is wrong with it. Bu then we have enough complaints in the Forum indicating that the nonvocal mass has the same ones, but they don#t even care enough to "rant" about it and just go on with other games. In the end, FD took those most issued (complaints) and made some beyond releases form them. Lets hope they turn out good. C&P was good in the core, needs some fine tuning, Engineers need more consistence with finding materials to make it less purely RNG based for a player to aquire them.
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Same thing.
Steam data alone confirms that player numbers continue to increase. Once you include the other platforms that have been added it's incontrovertible.
I'm honestly not sure I can parse what you said after that with enough certainty to answer.
It’s all manner of ships. But you don’t put something like Anaconda in the game and then claim “frontier don’t”. Yeah they do. You don’t leave an aberration in that is a massive drawcard and then obviate responsibility because it’s convenient.
Frontier show ships the way they do because this is supposed to be reflective of what we do and what commanders use. Whether or not that aligns with what commanders are actually using and doing, I’ll leave as an exercise for the reader.
I don't mind credits as I need em myself, but it's just a plain fact it was better and more meaningful before. It's more like new people are missing out rather than 'I had to so you have to'. Would you trade your starting experience for what people get now? Hell no. It's basically engineers instead of credits.. shudder.
Just because you bury your head in the sand and pretend that nothing above a Cobra/Viper mk4 exists, DOES NOT mean that grinding doesn't exist. After you get to an ASP, it gets harder and more time consuming to get the larger ships. People interpret this progression as a grind when they see how long it can take. Large ships are fun in their own way. When a sandbox game presents players with an option to get larger ships, it's no surprise that players will want to try and get them. Saying "you can do anything in a cobra" is daft and not very helpful.
Those things existing does not in any way equate to "making ship progression the only long term goal and prospect" - that's just not so at all. I'm not sure what else to say it's so obviously wrong.
That's like saying "because Beagle Point exists they've made getting there the only long term goal and prospect" - total nonsense.
It's very helpful - many believe they can't. They need to know it's not like the games where you MUST grind to the big kit before you can start joining in - I've watched countless people labour under that impression, quit over the grind then come back and enjoy themselves in smaller ships.
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Fact? That's a bit bold don't you think?
I think it's completely subjective to each player. I'm not saying that I disagree with you, I had a blast in the early game (started ~ 2 years ago). However, assuming that people need to experience things the way you or I do reminds me of the often repeated "Back in my day, we had to walk to school each day, uphill in snow, BOTH ways!"
I'd rather people enjoy the game however they want to enjoy the game. I've got the Anaconda, and tbh, I don't fly it much. I enjoy my Asp and Python 100x's over, but that's not to say that everyone needs to think the same.
For those that want to stick with smaller ships, great! For those that want to play the game and get their Anaconda, great as well!
Sure, I like smaller ships too. If rediscovering them keeps people playing that's a good thing. But you won't know if you like larger ships or not until you try them. I don't think what he's saying is helpful if we are trying to figure out ways to make the end game few more rewarding. My fear is that FDev consistently hears feedback like what he says and think, "Well everything's fine!" and that there's nothing to balance or tweak with regard to end game ship progression
One thing i loved about this game when i was a newbie was that it really felt like i was a space ship commander flying by the seat of my pants and i had to think everything through. The galaxy felt massive the ships beyond my reach seemed like day dreams, The scope of the adventure ahead seemed boundless.
Now the game for many is easy and if easy isnt good enough try the weekly exploits for gamebreaking easy...
Who's doing that? That goes completely against the law of the sandbox, which is also missing today yep. More like law of mission board now. It was actually better though, only frontier can fix that. Reckon people still get though every ship in the game? You actually sorta needed to once upon a time. Just like it was back then it's complete okay for anyone to do what they want, it's the nature of the sandbox.
If the main fun of the game or sense of accomplishment and resulting satisfaction is determined by how long it took you to go from a Sidewinder to X ship then there's a problem. Chastizing people cutting through the monotony of credit and rep rewards/ranks gain to get where they want to be is absurd. If the core gameplay loop is engaging and fun regardless of how many or few hours you play that's the important determining factor of a great game. Unfortunately though that core isn't there for some career types for a pretty sizable amount of people.
If missions are fun on their own merit, people will do them regardless of reward. If they're not, people will do however many to achieve a money or reward goal and move on to what they find fun. Guess which one is happening here?
If missions are fun on their own merit, people will do them regardless of reward. If they're not, people will do however many to achieve a money or reward goal and move on to what they find fun. Guess which one is happening here?
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So I can ignore all the threads about people complaining commanders are all rushing to Anaconda as “obviously wrong”. Thanks for the clarification. I am told Elite doesn’t have any end game ships either.
Not every force is direct. Such forces still exist, and act as a lever, regardless.
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Why on earth would we want to do that?
This thread is about the early game and how to improve that.
Eh? No. That in no way whatsoever logically follows from what I said. Not in any way at all. I.... I.... just what. Seriously what on earth.
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So? Threads change course. I was responding to the discussions on the 2 and 3 page that dealt with peoples thoughts on ship progression beyond the early game.