The White-knight Paradox: The fear of consequences.

[verminstar]

Hmm the moan zone...I like that actually...very fitting under the circumstances of this place.

Last time I filled out a bug report, the bug didnt get fixed until nearly 18 months later so pray tell me whats the point in wasting time on bug reports? Things like that which have no reasons given as to why...well it tends to have consequences like Ill not waste my time filling out bug reports ever again. It actually took them 5 months just to admit the bug was real at all and then another 13 months to finally fix it so really, Im asking nicely...whats the point?

As fer reporting things like cash farms...Im skint so thats not gonna happen anytime soon cos Ill be farming it and making hay while the sun shines before the white knights get wind of it and start whining to frontier because it wrecks their game ^

 

[GunnerBill]

Situational awareness and trigger control are important and really help to minimize problems while making things more interesting (to me at least).

I agree that "git gud" and very often "working as intended" are just used as ways to avoid discussions about a topic.

I would mildly disagree re Trigger/awareness. They are frequently thrown out as strawman arguments. A person is making a point about a perceived bug or whatever resulting from an event caused by what some perceive as a Trigger/Awarrness issue and then the whole topic just becomes an argument about that and not what OP intended at all. The issue is valid but frequently drowned out with that nonesense.

 

[lokvette]

It was wall of text in context it was trying to tell - forum dads are bad, 'newbies' are cool and they need that Anaconda in 6 hours pronto.

Sometimes you don't need to wrap up your opinion in niceties. We understand you. We just don't agree (and that's cool right?) and attempt to paint it again as forum dads vs. newbies, or white knights vs. true heroes, etc. etc. is stupid.

Provide good argumented post offering different POV and you will gain nothing but respect from me.

Provide just weak sauce meta forum attack and...meh.

Without naming names in my OP, your one of the ones who sees both sides of the coin and does stand up and say yeah this is bad or yeah this is good.

But I have seen name calling from both sides of the fence and if the OP is a moan about somthing, a lot of the time the first few posts will be from various forum users not arguing the point of the OP but telling them to in not so many words but to have sex and travel.

 

[Cmdr Lucca1985]

It was wall of text in context it was trying to tell - forum dads are bad, 'newbies' are cool and they need that Anaconda in 6 hours pronto.

Sometimes you don't need to wrap up your opinion in niceties. We understand you. We just don't agree (and that's cool right?) and attempt to paint it again as forum dads vs. newbies, or white knights vs. true heroes, etc. etc. is stupid.

Provide good argumented post offering different POV and you will gain nothing but respect from me.

Provide just weak sauce meta forum attack and...meh.

No it wasn't.

 

[Cmdr Lucca1985]

Thanks for constructive replies.


Gives me an understanding of my thought processes in relation to everyone elses.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I would mildly disagree re Trigger/awareness. They are frequently thrown out as strawman arguments. A person is making a point about a perceived bug or whatever resulting from an event caused by what some perceive as a Trigger/Awarrness issue and then the whole topic just becomes an argument about that and not what OP intended at all. The issue is valid but frequently drowned out with that nonesense.

Thanks for that reply, looking at it that way I understand why you added those two things. Yes, sometimes they are used to derail a discussion - like so many other things.
What I've noticed that a lot of commenters prefer to discuss the symptoms of problems instead of the cause of problems.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Had an interesting thought.

Radid White Knighting of Elite Dangerous, even in the face of legitimate complaints, is a symptom of the fear that frontier might induce a hard reset on anyone who has progressed via an exploit, including the true vets who had to scramble their way up through 'wholly legitimate' means?

Been playing since a few weeks before Horizons launched and have been signed up to the Forum for a similar amount of time. I have complained whined and even went into to full on hate rant during the search for the guardian ruins myself, so I am by no means above reproach when it comes to losing my temper, but I am curious about something.

What does it gain a user, if there are broken mechanics and bugs which block off gameplay, to defend these breaks and bugs and to shoot down anyone who just wants to vent their frustration. I don't see how it harms another player or the game if a level of dissatisfaction is made abundantly clear to a developer. It would appear that this is one of the primary functions of this forum.

Salt or no salt, being attacked is an over reaction.
It might be easy to say TROLLS!!! TROLLS!!!
This is how these saddos get their jollies.

My thought's however are as above. I believe that the perpetual defence of these definite mistakes and attacks on so called 'salty posts' are actually the Vet player base trying to overemphasize their satisfaction with the game over upstart noobs, so that frontier do not introduce any mechanic which could not be circumvented by a large credit balance and an RNG Godship, say for instance a retroactive punishment on anyone who gained their position through exploits.

I haven't seen one 'balance' or 'exploit fix' since playing that has not served to, in one way or another, punish or impede those with low bank balances, that isn't defended by the true vets. Vets who seem willing to allow the game to stagnate into tedium, as long as their top dog, day one, I trudged the hill so should you, position is maintained.

It is the only explaination I can think of.

Why they are listened to or at least agreed with by the developers is beyond me.

I have been termed as a "white knight, "fan boy" and other pathetic ways to discredit my opinions, even when I have critisized the game a number of times on a number of subjects. With the latest critisism being how the rewards of wing missions are sorted.

To be perfectly honest I have not seen a single White Knight because everyone has issues with the game in areas, it's just that what some think are issues, others do not.

I am a vet as you would say (been playing since original beta/gamma), and I just want the game to be a fun experience. Giving players huge bank balances is not going to make the game magically fun.

You will be doing the exact same stuff with a small bank balance but without any risks involved. No risk or challange as far as I am concerned means zero fun.

 

[Deareim]

Since 3.0.2 and 3.0.3, we are not seeing the usual white knights and nerf squad. Weird...

 

[iFred]

Ok. You wanted a clear example of white-knighting, here you go - its from your OP:

Had an interesting thought.

even in the face of legitimate complaints

BWAHAHAHAHAHA
Who are you to decide what legitimate is? Hm? You small little troll.

sorry, couldnt resist.

 

[Raino]

Since 3.0.2 and 3.0.3, we are not seeing the usual white knights and nerf squad. Weird...

yeah, sad so, i cant go as WHITE knight anymore as well [where is it]

cause i did burn my nose when scooping while ago

 

[GG7]

You are overthinking this way too much.

White Knights simply base their ED experience on their singular/myopic personal exposure to the game. Problems and criticisms they read from others don't register because these things are not part of their own experience with the game, so they dismiss them as trivial or untruths.

This behavior is easy to spot, and is what gives the term "Fanboy" its teeth and meaning to most gamers.

Call them what you will, these players lack objectivity, and thus the credibility a true defender of a game or product must have in order to be taken seriously.

 

[Rob At Work]

White Knighting is a natual human emotion - it's called defending your belief.

the issue is more aligned with the differences between peoples beliefs, its not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination

 

[Geraldine]

I am, what Cmdr Lucca1985 called, a vet, from the kickstarter days and even before that on the forum of old. I am not rich in the game either by any means or have all the best ships fully engineered with God Rolls. All I've done is potter around the place, doing odd jobs here and there, trying to progress normally, which is why, after all these years since the last Gamma wipe, I still have a lot to do and still have to keep a wary eye on my rebuy costs. I've only made one Elite rank (Exploration) in all that time for example, so that should tell you what my playstyle has been.
Some people might well have used exploits or outright cheats to get ahead but they are only cheating themselves at the end of the day, robbing themselves of the true value of making an achievement in the game. For me, I am not bothered by what they do as I've always believed everyone ought to be able to play the game in their own way, each to their own as it were. That there has always been a hallmark of the Elite series; do things your own way. [yesnod]

However I do also agree with Cmdr Lucca, that some of the changes brought into the game have made things much harder for some folk, who, like me, just potter around the place trying to scare up some credits (mostly) honestly. Then again, I also find myself agreeing with Rubbernuke, back in the early days, just buying a Cobbie 3 was a big thing to reach because credits were so hard to come by, remember trying to mine without limpets Rubbernuke? [where is it]

So I am on the fence over this but I can understand where some folk struggling in the game can only look on while other players in the game run around in their god-like chariots. Me? I just get on with what I am trying to get on with and still end up broke. I have to admit tho, the game as it is these days, is leaving me behind or at least that's how I feel about it.

And as for the winge aspects on the forum, well.....
The only way this game will improve (and has improved) is via constructive criticism. That's something that is healthy and during my time on here as a mod I encouraged. FD rightly should, at times, be called out on some of the design decisions they made. Not I hasten to add because they are hated but because people genuinely love this game (for lots of different reasons) and really want it to be the best space sim out there, just as it always was going back 3 decades.

So, my message is this; put your swords away you white knights, calm yourself you dissatisfied folk out there. Instead of forum wars, lets join together, organise, help each other and help, guide even, FD's course to make this latest Elite the best ever in the series. While perfection can never be attainable, gradual improvements for the betterment of all can be through lots of feedback going both ways. This lack of feedback is one of the reasons why people might rant on here is because they feel their views are being ignored or dismissed. By working together, and I include FD in this, we can all enjoy a game that is worthy of the name Elite. Surely that's a win for us all?

Lets us all try to do better (that includes you too FD!) and strive to be a real elite fanbase and game developer working together to create the magic that is the Elite series. It's there, for all you, if you want it...

 

[Cmdr Lucca1985]

Ok. You wanted a clear example of white-knighting, here you go - its from your OP:




BWAHAHAHAHAHA
Who are you to decide what legitimate is? Hm? You small little troll.

sorry, couldnt resist.

For your information a legitimate complaint is wh.......ahaaaa had you going.

 

[ilo]

What does it gain a user, if there are broken mechanics and bugs which block off gameplay, to defend these breaks and bugs and to shoot down anyone who just wants to..
[...]
My thought's however are as above. I believe that the perpetual defence of these definite mistakes and attacks on so called 'salty posts' are actually the Vet player base trying to overemphasize their satisfaction with the game over upstart noobs,

Wait, you talking about the broken mechanic with the skimmer missions? you are right, I saw a lot of people in that 'perpetual defence' of that broken mechanic, and a lot of 'salty posts' about keeping them because they were fun, and I saw a lot of them shooting down every one that was against that broken mechanic, but I don't think it was the white-knights doing it???

I don't agree with some of FD decision, I do acknowledge there are some nasty and horrible bugs, I don't blindly defend FD actions, but I don't think the game is unplayable and I think it is a good game.

Remember all that cheering that 'skimmer missions were fun, get them back!!' 'FD you removed my fun!!!'? the missions are back but since you can't hear the 'clink' of the cash flowing as fast people still thinks FD broke them, nerfed them, whatever you want to call it, the posts have moved to: 'not worthy', 'not fun'.. but the missions are the same.

People should be honest first, then maybe I'd care about their opinions, otherwise I'd be pulling a groucho marx: here are my principles, if you don't like them I'll bring new ones tomorrow.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I see a lot of people complaining about people defending bugs, but I don't see anyone defending bugs.

Peronally I think the beatles are one of the best bands ever.

 

[Cmdr Lucca1985]

White Knighting is a natual human emotion - it's called defending your belief.

the issue is more aligned with the differences between peoples beliefs, its not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination

That would be fine if people weren't denying the existence of problems, or shouting down the Natural Human Emotions of others.

 

[ilo]

"Git Gud"
"Working as intended"
"Trigger Control"
"Situational awareness"

All used to shut down debate.

IMO not enough moderation.

usually some of them answer questions like this most of the time: 'I was in a RES and a stupid cop crossed my line of fire and accidentally got a couple of hits (nothing serious) and then it died, I got a 400Cr bounty, and this is happening to me every day, all the time'..

Better lets not go to the 'can only play 2h a week, gimme my corvette now or the game is dead'..

 

[Lanceor]

If a white knight is someone who defends the game and dismisses all the game's bugs and shortcomings, then I don't think that I've met one on these forums yet.

However, there are a lot of posters who, knowing that a bug report has been filed or a feature request discussed, no longer feel the need to keep discussing it and patiently wait for Frontier to do their stuff.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That would be fine if people weren't denying the existence of problems, or shouting down the Natural Human Emotions of others.

Can you give an example of an existing problem that is being denied?

Do you feel the shouting down is a one way street? Isn't it the case when tempers flare the volume goes up in stereo?