“It’s a game” is the best reason. People game for fun and entertainment (except maybe the obtuse ones in this thread). Arguing that something doesn’t make sense as if it’s real life or a job is so far beyond absurd one would almost certainly have to be trolling to take up that argument.
Wing mission balance pass
- Thread starter Bryski
- Start date
“It’s a game” is the best reason. People game for fun and entertainment (except maybe the obtuse ones in this thread). Arguing that something doesn’t make sense as if it’s real life or a job is so far beyond absurd one would almost certainly have to be trolling to take up that argument.
What limits the maximum missions that can be spawned on a board? i.e. why can't there just be lots of missions of all types, so that players always have something to do?
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I totally disagree... Which is fine. Life is dull if we all agree. Calling those u disagree with obtuse trolls tho... Not fine. Muetdhiver summed it up fairly well... Different games have different points and different people put more or less importance on those points. Some of which are exclusionary. (Burnout style take downs in F1 racing game for instance). Also i think you missed the "in and of itself" part which is kind of an important qualifier.
Neither view is inherently wrong it just comes down to which ideals FD feel fit best in ED. They are trying to accommodate all at the moment which is an ambitious goal but imo at some point they may have to go back and see what game they kick-started and actually decide to commit to a strong vision even if it means putting some noses out of wack.
kerbal space program is another good example. on the surface it is a cute looking simple spaceship buidling sandbox game... but it really isnt, it is an incredibly complex game with shed loads of detail.
look at the galaxy in ED, and imo it is clear that this is how ED was meant to be, the amount of science in there is crazy..... then look at the ship designs, esp the early ones, the level of detail is really good towards making a plausibly functional spaceship (within the confines of the games lore).
At its heart ED was always meant to be a reasonably "hard scifi" game, not a fantasy mmo............... Imo of course.
Maybe i am reading you wrong but my view is that adding a bit of logic and consistency makes the game MORE FUN not less fun.
either way tho I dont think anyone here is asking to nerf the missions or do anything to take away profit earned in a wing.
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Hi,
I think Frontier should split or create the haulage commodity mission which asks ton haulage and an escorts.
So that the crew that don't have all a transport ship can be useful and it will be probably more rp or realistic. The mission of course will generate a pirate that has a little engineered modules to add more salt. You can solo it if you want of course.
I will no argue on those who asks more realism as I think that a game is fun primarily but I just want that the wing mission don't end as a dead on arrival feature. My friend and I planed to use them.
I see lot of people exposing lot of solution for the mission balance but we should be realistic Haha... Frontier won't implement a revolution. Only a small adjustment can be done in a small amount of time. And we just saw it. Even a small change can have terrible consequences.
Edit: I hope those who asks realism, also delete their save if they got killed ? Because... Well realism right ? * joke *
I think Frontier should split or create the haulage commodity mission which asks ton haulage and an escorts.
So that the crew that don't have all a transport ship can be useful and it will be probably more rp or realistic. The mission of course will generate a pirate that has a little engineered modules to add more salt. You can solo it if you want of course.
I will no argue on those who asks more realism as I think that a game is fun primarily but I just want that the wing mission don't end as a dead on arrival feature. My friend and I planed to use them.
I see lot of people exposing lot of solution for the mission balance but we should be realistic Haha... Frontier won't implement a revolution. Only a small adjustment can be done in a small amount of time. And we just saw it. Even a small change can have terrible consequences.
Edit: I hope those who asks realism, also delete their save if they got killed ? Because... Well realism right ? * joke *
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ok here is the thing..... no one has explained WHY multiplying base mission pay by 3 or 4 then dividing by the number of play in a wing - along with the addition of time bonuses to encourage wingplay breaks these missions for those in a wing. all we get is folk like the above being sarcastic, which is not helpful.
When there is a solution which does not hurt 1 group (those in a wing) but actively HELPS other groups (lone wolves AND those who play for verisimilitude reasons, then why not please everyone. We KNOW the code can handle it because that is how it used to work.
BTW just for the record because i think some assume i am a lone wolf...... these days 90% of my time in ED is played in a wing of 2 or 3 and i STILL think higher paid delivery costs split with wing members is better than magic boosts... you clearly dont... but rather than take the pis.......... why not try to objectively explain why it is worse ?
Will Flanagan
W
Hello everyone,
A quick update on the status of Wing Delivery Missions: we are going to be reducing the units of cargo that these missions can require to 320 – 6120. In addition, we’ll also be increasing the payouts of these missions slightly.
Thank you for your feedback and we’ll continue to observe and balance missions if required.
A quick update on the status of Wing Delivery Missions: we are going to be reducing the units of cargo that these missions can require to 320 – 6120. In addition, we’ll also be increasing the payouts of these missions slightly.
Thank you for your feedback and we’ll continue to observe and balance missions if required.
Do these missions factor in distance from star?
Hi
is there any chance at all of signiicantly increasing the payout and then splitting between the numbers in the wing, with possible time wrinkles to encourage wing play, getting rid of the automatic pay multiplier? or should those who like that idea accept it and shut up.
Excellent to hear Will. Thanks to you and the team for being so receptive to feedback!
If you say slightly, than you mean increasing x10 for the whole wing and a payout in same part as delivery has happened?
Wingman 1 did 10% = 10% of total payout
Wingman 2 did 50% = 50% of total payout
Etc....
Because this would be balance, reward for effort and bla bla....
Increase mission Payouts across the board.
the problem is it gets silly when i am getting paid more to act as a courier delivering 100 tons of (what ever) from A to B, than if i was to buy the exact same (what ever) myself and deliver from A to B where i am using my own money to buy the stuff.
honestly it boggles me that folk do not find the rate of earning fast enough at this piont in the game. i would say the random spawn nature of some of the mats is far more obnoxious, and unlike making money harder to consistently predict using logic and knowedge of the game as it is base on random chance,..
Is there a possibility of increasing the LY radius in which mission targets are selected?
Not by much, just a few LY here and there could go a long way..
For example, even though the system I am currently in has 4 stations, most missions involving transport sends me to outposts, where I cannot land bigger ships.
What I noticed is that most missions select a system as the target in a 7-15 LY range. Now if those don't happen to have plenty of stations, usually you'll end up having to go to outposts, which further decreases the efficiency.
It would be nice if that number would be increased to 20 LY or even beyond (we wouldn't get mad if we had to jump twice for a mission... beats supercruising to hutton orbital
) and they could try to prioritize stations for big ships at least 70% of the time.Especially with all the FSD range buffs we got lately... it just feels like the game wants me to go to the same 3-4 systems all the time.. Some variety would be welcomed
The problem with this approach is that it does not take into account Wing Composition as a contributing factor of overall Mission Success.
If the cargo in this instance is of high value then it might be more advantageous to take along a Merc to protect the convoy. The Merc would not be delivering any Cargo, but their presence could be enough to tip the scales during a Pirate interdiction as they can cover everyone's escape, and their contributions should be recognized and rewarded - just not with Handwavium Money. This concept could be further extended to Health Tanks and AWACs Support in Skimmer/Massacre/Assassination Missions, or Market Scouts in Source and Return Missions.
Hi Will,
Suggestion: instead of making wing hauling and massacre missions the same as solo missions but with the cargo/targets multiplied by a factor of 10, engineer the difficulty of the wing missions to require support from multiple players. This will have two benefits:
1. You won't have to keep adjusting mission rewards on a sliding scale resulting in either solo mission pay getting crippled or wing missions being offered at 1/10 the equivalent price.
2. Providing extra challenge that would logically require CMDRs to fly as a team.
The other night a buddy of mine and I took a pair of unarmed T9's on a wing mission to deliver 1800 tons of survival equipment. Didn't get interdicted once, we basically hauled the gear back and forth until we were done. Even if we had been interdicted, though, it would have been a standard interdiction with the same single Deadly Anaconda or Fer de Lance who shows up on almost every mission. Submit, boost, jump. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Same with Wing Massacre missions, go kill 280 pilots instead of 28. Same resource sites or CZ's, same opponents. Same exact gameplay, except it now takes 10x the time.
Wing missions should spawn wing-worthy obstacles and offer wing-worthy rewards. There should be milk run missions for haulers between high-sec systems, for CMDRs who want to space truck in peace. But there should also be wing haulage missions to/from anarchy systems where the mission description says "The opposition knows you're doing this for us, and will do nothing to stop you." There should be a need fort that loaded Type 9 to have a wing of escort fighters looking to take out interdictors in Supercruise before they can interdict the Type 9, fighting to keep enemies away. Or maybe the haulers just use Vettes or Cutters, each taking a reduced chunk of the haulage mission and fighting on their own. And the enemies should come in wings, too - not just the same boring Anaconda encounter over and over, but squadrons of eagles and sidewinders 8 at a time, or a mixture of vipers and vultures. But the reward should come from the effort it takes to get the goods from point A to point B, especially if its long distance, not just some arbitrary value based on the current market price of the cargo.
Same with Massacres in RES or CZ's... While on a wing mission, there should be dedicated wings of enemies spawning and attacking as a group. A wing mission should make a CMDR desperate to stick close to his wingmates for support, rather than breaking away to do their own thing to make the kill counter go up faster.
Wing Assassination missions got this right, dropping you instantly into a fight with 5-6 ships. If you play it smart, you can solo it, but it's easy to get overwhelmed, even in a wing. Wing Haulage and Massacre missions should have that same kind of threat.
Make the reward a result of conquering a challenge and not just pushing a counter 10x higher.
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Good to hear
I am sure we will see plenty of reports on the adjustment and how it feels to everyone.
Cheers
it also does not take into account the value of the cargo so it could easily result in everyone on source and return wing missions making no money, or even losing money to complete the mission.
id rather payment system stay the way it was/is as while yes to does not exactly make it logical in reality to have a payout turn into 60 million from 20 just because you got 4 people in a wing, it was never really profitable to solo a wing souce and return mission even more so now but it was also the case prior to the first "fix" on this issue.
Appreciate the effort being made, but I have to ask, do you not have the ability to log into the game to see how your code changes interact with mission balance? Surely this would be a more sensible approach, and a faster one? It seems odd that you're making changes on the fly then hoping one of us can pin the tail on to the donkey. We don't know exactly what you've done, you do. Why not take the time to log in and see yourself, or at the very least preview on a staging platform.