Complex?!?! They've been massively *simplified*. C&P and the Engineers are now much more clear cut & legible than was previously the case. Are they perfect? No, but definitely much improved.
Obsidian Ant NEW VIDEO - Crime and Punishment is Flawed
- Thread starter Maro-Val
- Start date
Complex?!?! They've been massively *simplified*. C&P and the Engineers are now much more clear cut & legible than was previously the case. Are they perfect? No, but definitely much improved.
People were raging about the Engineering RNG system pretty much every day between it's launch and the day it went away. Let's not pretend we all loved it. There were many complaints.
While Crime and Punishment does have some serious flaws, as a PVP pirate I've not been terribly inconvenienced by it. What I do think is funny though is some of the threads by people who seem shocked that it applies to PVE. Did they really think it would only apply to the evil PVP players?
Couldn't agree more... Point is most people who get into trouble with the C&P are quite often edge cases presented like they are everyones experience... which is just out right stupid. SO many people who play ED seem to focus on a single aspect of the game and then never bother learning about any of the basic mechanics beyond their own tiny little section of play style.
Like getting stuck in a system because you fit a 2D FSD and cant escape.
Its like, while good thinking on optimizing your ships mass to give you an edge in combat, but thats your choice, and if that ship cant get you out of a situation that, arguably, you put yourself in, then, actually C&P is working just fine... take responsibility for your own stupidity. Whats that? 200cr fine for stray fire? Well, pay attention in battle and upgrade your brain to level 2 in perception and... shock horror, lift the your trigger when you think a shot is risky... Oh it was an accident, sure sure sure, can i hit your car with a hammer? and expect you to be happy if i say "Sorry, didnt mean it"
vindelanos So much rep for that.
Well, you know my view. Current Bounties were created back when nobody had any cash, & cash was hard to come by, so now we need bounties that more accurately represent average player wealth. 2x-5x current bounty sizes. Double bounties for crimes committed in Hi-Sec systems (&, conversely, 0.5x for crimes committed in lo-sec), & bounty doubles for each repeat offence in the same ship......& a 25% cleaning fee at IF.
Sure, complaints are always following ED because, FDev could give you free stuff and people would still complain about something.
But no most of the complaints where about people fundamentally not stopping for more than 5 seconds to think about what they were doing. Seriously, a very basic stats book should be read by everyone, it would make everyone realize the shouting of RNG is just so so so wrong and silly.
What FDev really had to do, is show the probability curves on the screen and most people would have understood what they are likely to get. Truth is, most of the vocal ED playerbase want the moon on a stick...... for free
No, I think anyone who was paying attention to the changes coming in to 3.0 knew it wasn't just a PvP thing. For the most part it's just been confusion over where things get paid now, and what they can and can't do while there is a fine/bounty on you. It's not well explained in game. Or even explained at all. Elite's always been pretty bad at every other action generating a fine or bounty, now they've added more complexity on how to deal with them. A lot of fines and bounties were accidental, but at least we knew we could just pop into the station and pay it. Now.... I'm not sure anymore.
A lot could be solved by separating illegal and legal missions on the mission board. Especially for new players. And they need to explain on illegal missions the consequences of getting caught.
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Rafe Zetter
Banned
Yeah, I am a known fan boy who sees a lot of issues with the game that would like to get fixed and improved. I can't be bothered because it is probably just stating the obvious. I was never a fan of the bounty on your ship idea in the first place. I don't like USS's mechanics. I don't like res sites or combat zones. I don't like the fact that the depth of the BGS has virtually no visual cues and a boom state looks no different to a plague or a war state. I can't stand the Jump and honk of exploring, oh but I am a fan boy.
Nice one Rafe. Thought you were better then that.
Did it get you to clarify your statement so it didn't look quite so dismissive? yup.
my work here is done.
Rule of thumb-Hi Tech will almost always have a Data Trader, Industrial will almost always have a Manufactured Mats Trader, & Extraction will almost always have a Raw Mats trader.
But not at every station. Honestly, alt tabbing to eddb is quicker.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
Good point - there is a game called Torchlight 2 - upon death in a dungeon or area you are given 3 options "respawn in town for free", "repawn at the entrance" and "respawn here"
Town is free - Entrance is 10% of total wealth - "Here" (with mods) can be up to 20% of total wealth.
The point I'm making is that even minor bounties should be index linked to your wealth - so you still feel it whether you have 2,000 credits or 2 billion.
Regardless of the other issues with a 200cr fine earning a death warrent - after only a few days of play a 200cr fine becomes meaningless.
From the video:
I never noticed.... maybe it's because I'm from/live in California?
Yup, I've had my fighter shoot a cop b/c I was cycling through targets looking for a wanted ship and had forgot my fighter was set to "Attack Target" I had thought at the time this meant, shoot at what I'm shooting at. Since the default Defend Me only means the fighter would only attack something that shot at me. I wanted her to be a little more aggressive and help me out. This DIDN'T MEAN shoot at everything I look at. Anyway, got bounty, had to run away and then quit for a week while the timer expired.
Nah, if the station has a contact service, one should be able to pay his fines and bounties/turn oneself in. At a premium even, I wouldn't care. FD's gameplay decisions are just killing the flow of the game. It's quite baffling. Maybe they see their grand 10 years plan, but a lot of players won't be around by then. They need fresh blood in their design team.
I cant wait when they remove docking request because you have guns on ship. Guns are evil!
Powderpanic
Banned
I said the fall out from the Punishment and Punishment attempt would be hilarious, weeks ago.
Still does nothing to stop griefing. Just like I said it wouldn't.
Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing
Still does nothing to stop griefing. Just like I said it wouldn't.
Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing
Seems as though Ant' has finally arrived at the same place some of us have been since C&P was first discussed.
The fundamental problem with C&P, in ED, is that it seems like different aspects of it have been designed purely to address specific "problems" rather than with the intent of creating a proper "legal system" which people can choose to abide by or not.
If you consider the real-world, it's fair to say that there are a myriad of individual laws but the legal system, itself, is still pretty straightforward.
Sure, it's easy to unwittingly commit a trivial crime but it's almost impossible to commit a serious crime without having some idea that there will be serious consequences.
ED's implementation of C&P seems to lack that basic intuitiveness.
*EDIT*
FWIW, I've always thought "C&P" should be the stuff related to all criminal activities within the game.
If FDev want to take steps to deal with griefing/ganking/seal-clubbing, I'd suggest they consider using a separate system for that, rather than attempting to incorporate it into the general C&P.
Personally, I'd suggest they implement some kind of "Pilot's Federation Enforcement Department" (the FED's, for short?) which are a lot like the current ATR ships but are set-up so they detect when players have killed other players over a short period of time and then, depending on the severity of their crimes, give the responsible players an appropriately hard-time.
The fundamental problem with C&P, in ED, is that it seems like different aspects of it have been designed purely to address specific "problems" rather than with the intent of creating a proper "legal system" which people can choose to abide by or not.
If you consider the real-world, it's fair to say that there are a myriad of individual laws but the legal system, itself, is still pretty straightforward.
Sure, it's easy to unwittingly commit a trivial crime but it's almost impossible to commit a serious crime without having some idea that there will be serious consequences.
ED's implementation of C&P seems to lack that basic intuitiveness.
*EDIT*
FWIW, I've always thought "C&P" should be the stuff related to all criminal activities within the game.
If FDev want to take steps to deal with griefing/ganking/seal-clubbing, I'd suggest they consider using a separate system for that, rather than attempting to incorporate it into the general C&P.
Personally, I'd suggest they implement some kind of "Pilot's Federation Enforcement Department" (the FED's, for short?) which are a lot like the current ATR ships but are set-up so they detect when players have killed other players over a short period of time and then, depending on the severity of their crimes, give the responsible players an appropriately hard-time.
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Content might be aright but titles are openly clickbaity lately. Not my bag of content then.
He is aware about changes planning to make and that C&P improvements are ongoing process.
Instead he carters a bit to his audience. His videos comment section is completely different game altogether.
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Powderpanic
Banned
They should have spend longer on it and rolled it out with actual crime options as well.
They could start with the basics, like reasons for law abiding players to want to visit low sec or anarchy.
I think half the community expected P&P to be like EvE. Making High Sec Open as safe as Solo.
Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing