Well, what I'm saying is - the real problem you are having is precisely that mismatch - but that's not what your video is saying. Instead, in my opinion, I reckon your energies are better spent on a video about the mission system and how that could be improved.
Obsidian Ant NEW VIDEO - Crime and Punishment is Flawed
- Thread starter Maro-Val
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Well, what I'm saying is - the real problem you are having is precisely that mismatch - but that's not what your video is saying. Instead, in my opinion, I reckon your energies are better spent on a video about the mission system and how that could be improved.
You don't have to point me to anything, I've seen them.
Can you explain how the new IF mechanic, and the need to "plan ahead", serves to make taking illegal missions more engaging for yourself and/or other players?
A video on the mission system is certainly something that might be interesting.
You are certainly not wrong in what you are saying, but it puts the cart before the horse. The mission system, whilst very basic - is not really causing any problems. If C&P and missions (plus other elements of the game) are now in a position where they are incompatible, then I don't really feel we can lay the blame at mechanics that have been in the game for years now.
The other side of this of course is that the new C&P system does give indications of the potential direction with missions etc. that Frontier intend to take the game. But for now, that still leaves us with the current issues.
For me it's one more thing I have to think about before I do something. It's not an awful lot, but considering where we started at it's better than nothing. A game where I have to take into account my surroundings and the context is better than a game where I can do just about anything I want wherever I want whenever I want.
A video on the mission system is certainly something that might be interesting.
You are certainly not wrong in what you are saying, but it puts the cart before the horse. The mission system, whilst very basic - is not really causing any problems. If C&P and missions (plus other elements of the game) are now in a position where they are incompatible, then I don't really feel we can lay the blame at mechanics that have been in the game for years now.
The other side of this of course is that the new C&P system does give indications of the potential direction with missions etc. that Frontier intend to take the game. But for now, that still leaves us with the current issues.
I'm of the opinion that with all the issues with missions that have taken place over the last few months, and with the new C&P system, Fdev should really consider opening a feedback forum that's broken down by the generic mission types. The feedback forums seem to have been working fairly well thus far and I think it'd really help give them a more focused look at what missions need (some more than others).
A video on the mission system is certainly something that might be interesting.
You are certainly not wrong in what you are saying, but it puts the cart before the horse. The mission system, whilst very basic - is not really causing any problems. If C&P and missions (plus other elements of the game) are now in a position where they are incompatible, then I don't really feel we can lay the blame at mechanics that have been in the game for years now.
The other side of this of course is that the new C&P system does give indications of the potential direction with missions etc. that Frontier intend to take the game. But for now, that still leaves us with the current issues.
Well, honestly after 4 years of playing since before release - I've had to take a break from the game, precisely because the mission system is so basic, simplistic, and I've played and recognise all the archetypes. In other words - the mission system as it stands has outlived its usefulness to the game, and by about 1.5-2 years. Frontier got away with the mission system for maybe a year, maybe 2 years, but now would be the time to just replace it with something WAY more dynamic and organic - especially now that they've given C&P a good start.
I mean, you mention C&P & missions are incompatible - time to rewrite missions rather than trying to somehow revert or strangle C&P at birth, IMO. That's where Frontier's bigger priority should lie.
Sentiment of this thread seems to agree we should have a C&P system with ZERO significant consequences for shooting cops or civilians.
Seriously this is the saddest video Obsidian has ever created. His argument boiled down to:
1) but think of the poor stranded children with under 7 LY jump range!!
2) using map filters to locate interstellar factors is too complicated!
I normally don't post is these kinds of sad whine threads, but I think the people here need to collectively unbunch their pants and ask themselves if they really want a game without consequences for doing stupid things.
Seriously this is the saddest video Obsidian has ever created. His argument boiled down to:
1) but think of the poor stranded children with under 7 LY jump range!!
2) using map filters to locate interstellar factors is too complicated!
I normally don't post is these kinds of sad whine threads, but I think the people here need to collectively unbunch their pants and ask themselves if they really want a game without consequences for doing stupid things.
I'm not talking about one more thing to think about, I'm talking about having a sufficient reason to do so. "just because" is poor one.
I also never stated that I want to "do just about anything I want wherever I want whenever I want", that's just avoiding the question I asked and putting words in my mouth.
We're talking about a game, and in this game we have missions. If the new C&P system increases the complexity of taking illegal missions, which I am completely for, then it should be engaging. It's my opinion that the need to jump a one or more systems away to an IF is not engaging gameplay, it's busywork and the result is that the incentive to take illegal missions is further reduced.
I think Frontier has enough experience now to write a new version of the game, without the issues of the current code. It has outgrown its Kickstarter iteration.
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Yeah, if that were the case we'd be playing Sea of Thieves... Which is awesome, btw.
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Virtual RepSentiment of this thread seems to agree we should have a C&P system with ZERO significant consequences for shooting cops or civilians.
Seriously this is the saddest video Obsidian has ever created. His argument boiled down to:
1) but think of the poor stranded children with under 7 LY jump range!!
2) using map filters to locate interstellar factors is too complicated!
I normally don't post is these kinds of sad whine threads, but I think the people here need to collectively unbunch their pants and ask themselves if they really want a game without consequences for doing stupid things.
It's really not about being special or lazy vindelanos, it is about interrupting the flow of gameplay with a nonsensical detour needing to be made. Sure, the missions themselves could be more developed, I agree. Perhaps a stealth mode for SRVs for doing infiltration missions, but the fact is that isn't there, not yet at any rate. It is what it is. I long ago just accepted that cool down period and pay the fine when I docked as part of the mission. I would just go gather mats or something after I escaped the skimmers and/or auto turrets or (if I was very unlucky) be chased for my life in the SRV by any ships that happened to spot me across the surface, hoping I could get back to my ship in time before it and myself were spread across the planet surface. Had some great laughs doing that even when it, all too often, ended badly. Fun you see? That's why I play Elite, simply to have fun that, for the most part, does not hurt anyone else. If fun is killed then so is the game.
Sentiment of this thread seems to agree we should have a C&P system with ZERO significant consequences for shooting cops or civilians.
Seriously this is the saddest video Obsidian has ever created. His argument boiled down to:
1) but think of the poor stranded children with under 7 LY jump range!!
2) using map filters to locate interstellar factors is too complicated!
I normally don't post is these kinds of sad whine threads, but I think the people here need to collectively unbunch their pants and ask themselves if they really want a game without consequences for doing stupid things.
Bravo for overgeneralizing there... who's asking for a game where there's no consequences for doing stupid things?
I'd love to see some actual criminal gameplay and associated consequences. My problem with it is it currently doesn't feel like consequences. It simply feels like added tedium. (i'm talking from a purely pve perspective. no idea if PK'ers are feeling consequence or not)Sentiment of this thread seems to agree we should have a C&P system with ZERO significant consequences for shooting cops or civilians.
Seriously this is the saddest video Obsidian has ever created. His argument boiled down to:
1) but think of the poor stranded children with under 7 LY jump range!!
2) using map filters to locate interstellar factors is too complicated!
I normally don't post is these kinds of sad whine threads, but I think the people here need to collectively unbunch their pants and ask themselves if they really want a game without consequences for doing stupid things.
Having to 'plan ahead' to find an IF doesn't require any more forethought that looking for HGE's. It's not adding anything to the game.
I'd much prefer some challenging criminal missions where if you fail, then you have that "oh crap!" moment, and have a panicked trip to the nearest IF. Getting wanted now, and having to travel to IF to pay-off is about as exciting as a hutton run. [zZzZz]
Well the very video which is the topic of this thread is, mentioning about undersized FSDs.
Which is the result of min-maxing a ship loadout for combat, and then getting all upset when one realises after doing criminal stuff that one can't now just magically clear one's criminality in the same system one did the crime in, and that oh dear one's min-maxed combat ship now can't mosey on over to a place where you can clear that criminality.
That right there is now a very valid consequence of deciding to undersize an FSD - and quite rightly so. The onus is now on the player to consider something like this when deciding what criminal act to commit and a suitable ship loadout to commit it in.
It's nothing to do with "being smart". If the game was able to reward intelligent behavior, then there would be a way to infiltrate the bases using skill, knowledge and intellect without getting detected. That would be a true test of player ability. If you get caught, then you are in trouble. If you succeed, then you achieve your goal! That's a true gameplay loop.
Planning ahead to find an Interstellar Factor is not a test of skill.
Does ED have ANY gameplay that's like this right now?
Having a ship with under 7 LY jump range that can't leave an IF is "doing a stupid thing".
Accidentally shooting a cop or civilian is "doing a stupid thing".
This video is saying the consequences for these actions are too much, even though they are worst a minor annoyance. So yes, Obsidian's video and the OP are (maybe without realizing it?) asking for a game with reduced consequences. Since the consequences are already almost zero, then reducing them further will bring them to effectively zero.
People have (had they might have fixed it already) a point about getting trapped in a system unable to refuel their ship, but the undersized FSD is just plain dumb. They should make him fly to the next system in supercruise as penance.
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So is the C&P system.
It hands out the death sentence not only for first degree murder, but also for parking infringements, trespassing, data theft and involuntary manslaughter.
So I decided to pledge my services to Aisling because I heard she has a great personality, and I head to Medupe City where I run into this contact of hers. This contact tells me I can just take 10 tons of cargo and all I have to do is drop it off somewhere and I'll be in the Lady's good graces. Hell, I got room for 40 tons, gimme 30 more, I tell em. Nope, got to wait half an hour, or I could just sell em to ya outright. I can see how this is going, I've ran some confidence game myself before, but hey, she does really seem to have a great personality and wouldn't hurt to be in her good graces even more, so I buy more of this nice stuff she wants her subjects to enjoy and head out.
I'm movin' along at a nice clip towards some Orbital I can't recall the name of, pick up some static on my scanner, and decide to drop in and take a look. Can't be havin' pirates muckin up my Lady's space.
Shots are fired, cheeks are clinched, I've slept since then so can't recall exactly how it went down, but I can promise ya I've never fired the first shot in a skirmish. Anyways, I get to my destination and drop off the cargo, get a few credits in return, covered my ammo, won't complain.
I'm about to head out when I decide to peruse the old shipyard. Wasn't necessarily in the market, but then I laid eyes on a Clipper. I couldn't help but imagine a day when Aisling herself needed a ride and I was sittin' there with no passenger cabins in a one seat ship. Wouldn't do, so I buy the Clipper just in case a time ever arrives when I can tell her to ride shotgun.
Spent the next few days toolin' 'round Cubeo, getting the Clipper kitted out to my liking, inquiring as to Aisling's favorite flower, in hopes of getting one them aromatic little trees for the cabin in a scent she'd appreciate, and I remember I left a note from my late mum in the cabin of the old ship.
No biggy, I set out to have the ship transferred to Cubeo and I'm informed I'll have to pay a premium. What for? I walk the strait and narrow! Aisling's headquarters wasn't havin' none of it, as I'd destroyed an Archon assassin trying to murder me, an agent of Aisling trying to deliver her goods to her territory, where the ship I wanted transferred resided.
I'm startin' to question just how great of a personality she really has.
I'm movin' along at a nice clip towards some Orbital I can't recall the name of, pick up some static on my scanner, and decide to drop in and take a look. Can't be havin' pirates muckin up my Lady's space.
Shots are fired, cheeks are clinched, I've slept since then so can't recall exactly how it went down, but I can promise ya I've never fired the first shot in a skirmish. Anyways, I get to my destination and drop off the cargo, get a few credits in return, covered my ammo, won't complain.
I'm about to head out when I decide to peruse the old shipyard. Wasn't necessarily in the market, but then I laid eyes on a Clipper. I couldn't help but imagine a day when Aisling herself needed a ride and I was sittin' there with no passenger cabins in a one seat ship. Wouldn't do, so I buy the Clipper just in case a time ever arrives when I can tell her to ride shotgun.
Spent the next few days toolin' 'round Cubeo, getting the Clipper kitted out to my liking, inquiring as to Aisling's favorite flower, in hopes of getting one them aromatic little trees for the cabin in a scent she'd appreciate, and I remember I left a note from my late mum in the cabin of the old ship.
No biggy, I set out to have the ship transferred to Cubeo and I'm informed I'll have to pay a premium. What for? I walk the strait and narrow! Aisling's headquarters wasn't havin' none of it, as I'd destroyed an Archon assassin trying to murder me, an agent of Aisling trying to deliver her goods to her territory, where the ship I wanted transferred resided.
I'm startin' to question just how great of a personality she really has.