Modes The modes are brilliant!

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

As Frontier would seem to be well aware that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP, I expect that we will see Squadrons implemented in more than one game mode, just like Wings and Multi-Crew.

Thats fine, as long as player and powerplay systems get restricted in some way.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I doubt they will - but we'll see, in Q4, when Squadrons is expected to be released (although I expect that we'll have a strong indication of what Frontier have in mind when Sandro starts the long awaited Focused FeedBack on Squadrons).

 

[Stigbob]

Wrong. If this were the case. No one would play PVP based games. No one would be asking for changes in the PVP part of this game for many many years.

Cmon now.

Games are far more fun with willing participants, nobody can ever be forced to play a game they don't want to in a way they don't want to.

Trying to restrict choice just leads to things like clogging.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Games are far more fun with willing participants, nobody can ever be forced to play a game they don't want to in a way they don't want to.

Trying to restrict choice just leads to things like clogging.

That Fdev are currently going to punish. Because they want people PVPIng, Pirating and so on.

 

[ZeroAi]

The way the design has made it possible for players to be able to adjust their game upon their mood or preferred play style is absolutely genius. Especially because there are no downsides on choosing one mode over the other. You log into the game, you decide, you play. You can fly around the galaxy undisturbed, fly with like minded people, or face the slings and arrows of public mode. Elite isn't hampered by players who deem a system "their system" and dictate how other people play, only when those other players have signed up for it are. Just as it should be.

Personally, I will never jump through a player's hoops. Game developers are the only people who I allow to construct such hoops. And this has always been a barrier for me to play MMOs. Elite's system makes it possible for me to play that MMO, on my own terms and under the rules the developers have set. Now I've seen all the threads of would be Napoleonic Little Tyrants who would love nothing more than me to dance for them, and they'll argue how it's unfair they can't make me dance for them, and for me that is testament the modes are working as designed.

So, tip of the hat to Frontier, who made it possible for an occasional reclusive as me to enjoy an MMO on my terms, and even be tempted to dip my toes in social events in that MMO.
https://m.popkey.co/369be0/Gy0e_f-maxage-0.gif

The only thing missing is a "do not disturb" comms message. But that's not the modes fault.

By the way, the mods are brilliant as well!
And sometimes, even the mood is brilliant.

+Rep

Agreed!

 

[Robert Maynard]

The existence of the three game modes guarantees that Frontier can't force players to either PvP or be pirated by another player.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

The existence of the three game modes guarantees that Frontier can't force players to either PvP or be pirated by another player.

Agreed. PVP or Dont.

People PVP over Objectives. Its what its for. In any game. And thats why I am here making sure that happens.

I should be able to defend my system with PVP against UA bombers, Cop Killers and more.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Nope, not agreed - as we all bought (or backed) a game where indirect PvP, whether intentional or not, through the single shared galaxy state is a fundamental part of the game design.

Frontier made direct PvP entirely optional in their game - the single shared galaxy state guarantees that indirect PvP is not.

 

[Jockey79]

Whatever they are saying, the game needs an active PvP player base to grow.

Why?

WoW is removing it's open world PvP servers.
CCP had to step in to restrict PvP'ers.
Lots of other games have a variation of this same mode system, so PvP is by consent only.

PvP is not a fix all for any game.
And it only encourages people to get nasty on the games forums when they join a game that isn't PvP based, just like Elite.
I've seen this behaviour in Star Trek Online, in Warframe and even with WoW and EVE. Even UO had to step in to control PvP.

PvP'ers get nasty and demand everyone else have to play their way. It's a vile attitude to bring into a game.
So PvP in mixed mode games don't grow the game, it divides it. Just like we see here.

Agreed. PVP or Dont.

People PVP over Objectives. Its what its for. In any game. And thats why I am here making sure that happens.

I should be able to defend my system with PVP against UA bombers, Cop Killers and more.

And this game wasn't built with PvP Objective game play in mind.
It's a PvE token pushing game. You attack and defend the same way.

And the only thing you are "making sure" of, is that we don't get bored on the forums

 

[Stigbob]

That Fdev are currently going to punish. Because they want people PVPIng, Pirating and so on.

It won't make any difference. Say FDEV did cure clogging overnight, those players will just menu-log or learn to low or high wake.

It won't change people's choices it will just change how they go about it, they still won't fight you in PVP unless they choose to do it.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Nope, not agreed - as we all bought (or backed) a game where indirect PvP, whether intentional or not, through the single shared galaxy state is a fundamental part of the game design.

Frontier made direct PvP entirely optional in their game - the single shared galaxy state guarantees that indirect PvP is not.

You can not agree with it. At this point its not balanced.

Ill tell you this one more time. Games change. They always do. Especially ones like this.

Especially when this part of the game is being held back.

Just because YOU dont want the competitiveness doesnt mean others dont.

Remember like 8 months ago, when I told you guys and specifically you. Were running people off that wanted meaningful PVP instead of being called a griefer in the Hotel California thread?

Not only is there discussion about it in general discussion you are unsurprisingly a part of. Its not the first time someone mentioned it. I mentioned it, and so do other people.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...now_impersonating_frontier_employees/dvgha8s/

You really dont know what kind of impact you have. Or maybe you do.

 

[Stigbob]

You can not agree with it. At this point its not balanced.

Ill tell you this one more time. Games change. They always do. Especially ones like this.

Especially when this part of the game is being held back.

Just because YOU dont want the competitiveness doesnt mean others dont.

Remember like 8 months ago, when I told you guys and specifically you. Were running people off that wanted meaningful PVP instead of being called a griefer in the Hotel California thread?

Not only is there discussion about it in general discussion you are unsurprisingly a part of. Its not the first time someone mentioned it. I mentioned it, and so do other people.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...now_impersonating_frontier_employees/dvgha8s/

You really dont know what kind of impact you have. Or maybe you do.

I don't see the issue he posted in the forum as if he was from FDEV, so he broke the rules (and didn't get an infraction). It was obvious sarcasm but not everyone gets sarcasm.

 

[Rhino Hammer]

PP has, from its inception, been advertised as available across all modes. If someone bought this game for PP and didn’t know that obviously didn’t read up on the game before they bought it.

If you want to defend your faction, there are ways to do it. Just because it’s not pews pews does not make it unbalanced.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I agree with what Frontier designed, developed and released. Some people don't. That's only to be expected - as the game is not designed to be dominated by what is, in this game, an optional play-style.

Games do change, indeed - UO split to create Trammel and Felucca when it was haemorrhaging players; WoW is removing PvP servers in favour of flagging.

The game is competitive in certain aspects - indirectly - and does not require players (who don't want to) to engage each other directly, i.e. PowerPlay, the BGS, CGs....

If an acceptable compromise proposal were to be made and discussed then there'd very likely be less opposition from those whose play-styles would be affected by the usual proposal to restrict existing content to Open. However, the usual demand is that content that is available to all players, regardless of game mode, is arbitrarily restricted to Open - no compromise there, hence no agreement.

There's a big difference, in my opinion, between seeking meaningful PvP in the game and removing content from players in two of the three game modes - game modes that Frontier are on record as considering to be equal and valid choices.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I agree with what Frontier designed, developed and released. Some people don't. That's only to be expected - as the game is not designed to be dominated by what is, in this game, an optional play-style.

Games do change, indeed - UO split to create Trammel and Felucca when it was haemorrhaging players; WoW is removing PvP servers in favour of flagging.

The game is competitive in certain aspects - indirectly - and does not require players (who don't want to) to engage each other directly, i.e. PowerPlay, the BGS, CGs....

If an acceptable compromise proposal were to be made and discussed then there'd very likely be less opposition from those whose play-styles would be affected by the usual proposal to restrict existing content to Open. However, the usual demand is that content that is available to all players, regardless of game mode, is arbitrarily restricted to Open - no compromise there, hence no agreement.

There's a big difference, in my opinion, between seeking meaningful PvP in the game and removing content from players in two of the three game modes - game modes that Frontier are on record as considering to be equal and valid choices.

You're not going to get meaningful PVP as long as there is a choice to opt out of it over objectives. Plain and simple. People will take the easy way out.

See combat logging, see builds in private and solo compared to Open for defenses against Premium double shot screening shell frags.

The PVP community is small because of that. Not because they dont want to. Its not Optimal to.

Its up to Fdev to funnel that correctly. Because right now its not.

 

[Jockey79]

PP has, from its inception, been advertised as available across all modes. If someone bought this game for PP and didn’t know that obviously didn’t read up on the game before they bought it.

If you want to defend your faction, there are ways to do it. Just because it’s not pews pews does not make it unbalanced.

Exactly, but alas some folks are a bit slow - so we have to use small words and keep explaining it

 

[Robert Maynard]

As I don't expect Frontier to change the fact that there are three game modes nor the fact that all three game modes affect the single shared galaxy state, then it would seem unlikely that meaningful PvP (i.e. non-optional) is possible in this game - unless the objective was something new and different from PowerPlay or the BGS.

One might contend that the PvP community is small because this game is not dedicated to PvP, or that the PvP community is smaller than the PvE community in general.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Why?

WoW is removing it's open world PvP servers.
CCP had to step in to restrict PvP'ers.
Lots of other games have a variation of this same mode system, so PvP is by consent only.

PvP is not a fix all for any game.
And it only encourages people to get nasty on the games forums when they join a game that isn't PvP based, just like Elite.
I've seen this behaviour in Star Trek Online, in Warframe and even with WoW and EVE. Even UO had to step in to control PvP.

PvP'ers get nasty and demand everyone else have to play their way. It's a vile attitude to bring into a game.
So PvP in mixed mode games don't grow the game, it divides it. Just like we see here.



And this game wasn't built with PvP Objective game play in mind.
It's a PvE token pushing game. You attack and defend the same way.

And the only thing you are "making sure" of, is that we don't get bored on the forums

You do realize WoW is making it in order to complete certain quests. EVERYONE has to PVP for them. Or atleast have the chance to be stopped by the other faction to complete it. Nice of you to conveniently leave that out.

 

[Jockey79]

You do realize WoW is making it in order to complete certain quests. EVERYONE has to PVP for them. Or atleast have the chance to be stopped by the other faction to complete it. Nice of you to conveniently leave that out.

Again, you try to put your spin on the story forgetting that I can prove what they are doing.

First up, PvP servers are going away entirely. Instead, all servers will operate under the same rules of engagement, where players can opt-in for open-world PvP or choose to stay neutral. That's kind of similar to how it is now, except players will have to make the change in their capital city—so you can't flag for PvP the moment you see a target of opportunity. Opting into PvP will fill your world with other players who have also opted in, keeping likeminded players together.

As someone who recently had to pay to transfer off of a PvP server because of how imbalanced the population was between factions, this is an incredible change. Those who choose to play with PvP on will also get bonuses like extra experience, to reward their added risk.

To fix that, Blizzard is cutting out PvP servers entirely. Now players will choose whether to opt into PvP in their capital city, and if they turn it on, they’ll venture out into a world filled with other players who have opted into PvP. It also means players won’t be pressured into joining a PvP server just to play with their friends who are on their servers.

It's consensual Opt in PvP - not forced PvP as your spin tries to convey.
People can quite happily continue to PvE and ignore PvP as they do now.

 

[Rhino Hammer]

You're not going to get meaningful PVP as long as there is a choice to opt out of it over objectives. Plain and simple. People will take the easy way out.

See combat logging, see builds in private and solo compared to Open for defenses against Premium double shot screening shell frags.

The PVP community is small because of that. Not because they dont want to. Its not Optimal to.

Its up to Fdev to funnel that correctly. Because right now its not.

So you’re saying that most people prefer indirect PvP over direct PvP for objectives in E? That’s their preferred gameplay? And you want to deny their preferred gameplay method? Not sure you’re making the case you want to here. At least PP/BGS manipulation across all modes/platforms/instances was advertised from inception and will always be supported.