Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Simples - all players can choose to affect them, regardless of game mode, whereas some players would prefer that only players in Open were able to....
Modes The modes are brilliant!
- Thread starter WorldsGreatestForumDad
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Simples - all players can choose to affect them, regardless of game mode, whereas some players would prefer that only players in Open were able to....
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Wrong. If this were the case. No one would play PVP based games. No one would be asking for changes in the PVP part of this game for many many years.
Cmon now.
This is called common sense. players effecting other players. Do it all. Or do none of it.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
A reply from CS that contradicts a Dev.
Interesting.
Also, the block feature on PS4 seems to function differently from that on XB1 and PC/Mac.
Interesting.
Also, the block feature on PS4 seems to function differently from that on XB1 and PC/Mac.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
There's no need to "do it all" - no matter how much a subset of the player-base might like it to be a requirement.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Or maybe they changed stuff in the background like they do with the BGS all the time?
Oh wait im just a PVPer im not supposed to know about that stuff.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If using the menu to exit the game was considered to be Combat Logging, which it is not from what Sandro has said, then as Combat Logging is considered to be against the rules then the 15-second delayed exit menu option would not exist....
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Sure there is, it comes down to balancing. Either that or change the %'s Solo and Private gives compared to Open play to reward the extra risks against your opponents. Again it comes down to ship builds and META's.
How do you not know this?
Seriously do you know this?
Ive often wondered why you would subject yourself for so long to this conversation? Like it seems like you're here for a reason to argue against common sense intentionally for feedback. Otherwise? Why do this for so long. Just doesnt make sense.
Usually in my experience mods were on rotation when it came to the dump threads. But this one is totally different.
Whatever they are saying, the game needs an active PvP player base to grow. People are interested in it and I can't see how normal gamers will be enticed by exploration and trading.
Listening to the PvE community seems to be driving the PvP players away. Not everyone wants easy mode.
Also, combat logging. My kids (4 yr old) get warnings when they log during a Nintendo switch game. None of that here. Frontier seem content to do nothing about it, just look at the combat loggers Reddit.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
I know man, its crazy. Part of me thinks they will be fixing all this though. It seems really odd some of the decisions made. But at the same time the game is about Evolution. I hope Beyond catches that part thats missing up.
They did say Beyond is all about changing the "CORE MECHANICS". I hope they Burn this Hotel California to the ground.
Its ok, you're not the bearer of bad news, there is no news here.
Ultimately, i think its highly unlikely FD would make BGS restricted to Open, since it would upset a large % of the playerbase in order to satisfy a very tiny minority of players. It would be a rather silly business decision. I know, i know, you think otherwise, and there is no convincing you, but FD have shown no sign of doing so in 3 years, and i think based on their past comments, its not going to change. Even PP, which is a better candidate for making open only has not had any changes in this direction.
But please, answer my earlier question. Are you prepared to give up your PvP time in order to do delivery and passenger missions to work the BGS? If not, then you are going to lose any BGS war you would get into in your desired scenario. To work the BGS, you have to perform activites that affect the BGS.
Let's consider another variant, where FD go all in, and PvP is a major (or only!) factor in the BGS. Of course, this requires pledging of some kind (which of course leaves the system open to 5th columning - you can't go around shooting your own allies, so they will have free reign to mess you over). For example, i could join your faction, fly a sidewinder, and let myself be killed over and over again by your enemies. Or if ship value is a factor, fine, ill fly an Anaconda. Credits are easy to make anyway. I'll tank your BGS overnight from within.
What happens if there are no enemies around? Or your enemies are on a different platform? Hmm... well, that sucks. Nobody for you to kill. Ok, you can kill non-pledged people, but that shouldn't affect the BGS, except lower security in your own system. That's going to suck as well.
Actually, how on earth do you think PvP as part of the BGS could actually work? I'm running into brick walls here. If you want to keep the PvE component, then PvE will remain king, there simply won't be enough PvP targets to keep things going, unless you heavily bias in favour of PvP and add a pledge mechanic.
How about another solution instead? A PvP only system of territorial gameplay? I mean, they dumped PP on top of the BGS already (which to my mind was pants), so why not other layer as well? Some sort of influence thingy between competing groups that can only be affected by PvP.
So, let's imagine a new set of groups. Not Factions, not Powers.... hmm.... let's call them Warrior Clans! (pending a better name). Warrior clans get certain discounts, reduced rebuys, etc, in their territiories. Killing a pledged player in your own system increases your Clan's influence there. Dying in your own system reducies your clans infuence there. Killing/dying in an opposing system likewise. PvPers can then play a territorial game without any worry about what the PvEers are doing.
Of course, totally open to trolling/5th columning.
You do realize that when QA-Mitch suggested playing in a PG or in Solo, he never said anything about playing less of the game. His suggestion was pointing out the absolute ways in which someone could avoid certain types of interactions. I don't see how you can read any coming changes to the modes, from FD suggesting that we use them.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Whether Frontier choose to balance the modes, rather late in the game if you ask me, is their decision - however that they have only ever openly mused about this with regard to PowerPlay is rather telling, in my opinion.
There have, however, been clear Dev statements that the BGS will neither be split nor the influence of players in Solo / Private Groups removed from it.
Why do I get involved in this debate? Simple - I enjoy the game but do not enjoy direct PvP. I backed a game that was designed to meet my expectations in that regard.
There have, however, been clear Dev statements that the BGS will neither be split nor the influence of players in Solo / Private Groups removed from it.
Why do I get involved in this debate? Simple - I enjoy the game but do not enjoy direct PvP. I backed a game that was designed to meet my expectations in that regard.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
I already have Agony, remember?
[video=youtube;9tobMVjSMnQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tobMVjSMnQ[/video]
[video=youtube;GLD69rvTG04]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLD69rvTG04[/video]
Better late than never.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
We'll see what Squadrons deliver in relation to PvP / PvE.
Listening to some in the PvP community would drive PvE players away. Not everyone enjoys PvP.
Observing what might be a Combat Log is not the same thing as proving beyond doubt that it was a Combat Log. Frontier have indicated that detecting Combat Logs to that level of accuracy is non-trivial. Hopefully the karma system will track those who engage in such behaviour and deal with them accordingly.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The musings on a possible PowerPlay only Open play bonus occurred over two years ago and it was confirmed that there were no plans in that regard nine months later and have not been mentioned since. There seems to be nothing to report there.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Then dont PVP?
If they make the same mistake they made with Powerplay with squadrons. Something is in the water over-seas. And they should seriously look into it.
I'd disagree
Lots of people like and even prefer non-PvP games and it can grow nicely without it as FD add more non-PvP content. Atmosphere planets, life on planets, space legs, and other features can bring in more players.
If FD seriously wanted to focus in bringing more players though, they could simply add lowest common denominator mechnaics and gameplay, which would bring in more than making it a PvP game.
ED is a terrible game for any sort of PvP focus. Ship balance and roles are totally out of whack, the gameplay area is far too large for even a much bigger playerbase. PvP works best when people are pushed into PvP and its a minute to minute battle for life and death. To be a game with any sort of PvP focus they would basically have to rip it apart and start from scratch. That ship sailed years ago, and it was never the game Braben envisioned (i think i can say that without fear of contradiction).
In a way its a shame, all this might never have been an issue if FD had simply made ED a single player game. No need for a BGS or Powerplay. No more PvP vs PvE threads. No complaints about modes. And the PvPers could have found a different game to wave their epeens about in and make their demands of the devs. With single player we could have had difficulty settings and moddability as well.
But then, we wouldn't have the coop option either. But suppose FD could have provided the ability for private servers.
Might have overall been a much better game, and brought in a lot more players.
I really dislike these days how so many games that could have been good single player/lan games have to be online and social. Ruins so many games.
Mixing PvE and PvP demographis have been shown time and again to produce toxic environments and discontent.
For the future good of ED, it might even be arguably better to separate PvP out completely, or remove it. Not saying they should, but some people won't be content until they get their own PvP playground.
Fine, then give the PvPers their own PvP mode that is separate from everything else, and let's see them work their BGS
Nope. Please, don't make me watch meme videos. Make your points in text so i can read.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
I'd disagree
Lots of people like and even prefer non-PvP games and it can grow nicely without it as FD add more non-PvP content. Atmosphere planets, life on planets, space legs, and other features can bring in more players.
If FD seriously wanted to focus in bringing more players though, they could simply add lowest common denominator mechnaics and gameplay, which would bring in more than making it a PvP game.
ED is a terrible game for any sort of PvP focus. Ship balance and roles are totally out of whack, the gameplay area is far too large for even a much bigger playerbase. PvP works best when people are pushed into PvP and its a minute to minute battle for life and death. To be a game with any sort of PvP focus they would basically have to rip it apart and start from scratch. That ship sailed years ago, and it was never the game Braben envisioned (i think i can say that without fear of contradiction).
In a way its a shame, all this might never have been an issue if FD had simply made ED a single player game. No need for a BGS or Powerplay. No more PvP vs PvE threads. No complaints about modes. And the PvPers could have found a different game to wave their epeens about in and make their demands of the devs. With single player we could have had difficulty settings and moddability as well.
But then, we wouldn't have the coop option either. But suppose FD could have provided the ability for private servers.
Might have overall been a much better game, and brought in a lot more players.
I really dislike these days how so many games that could have been good single player/lan games have to be online and social. Ruins so many games.
Mixing PvE and PvP demographis have been shown time and again to produce toxic environments and discontent.
For the future good of ED, it might even be arguably better to separate PvP out completely, or remove it. Not saying they should, but some people won't be content until they get their own PvP playground.
Fine, then give the PvPers their own PvP mode that is separate from everything else, and let's see them work their BGS
Nope. Please, don't make me watch meme videos. Make your points in text so i can read.
Hows this for text,
YOU, need to stop assuming what you know about me. You listen to what you want to hear and see.
And not whats actually going on. Even from the developers and CM's when they speak.
Many a true word spoken in jest.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
As Frontier would seem to be well aware that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP, I expect that we will see Squadrons implemented in more than one game mode, just like Wings and Multi-Crew.
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