PvP The PvE <-> PvP Rift

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Haven't read all 400+ posts.

PvE Vs PvP will never be perfectly balanced.

PvPers don't need most of the modules that PvE players need.

And PvE combat, in general, is lower DPS, but sustainable. PvP is high DPS, particularly alpha damage.

PvP is also an "apex sport", where is PvE is whatevers comfortable.

I'd actually hate it if I had to make my mission runner combat ship as maxed out as a PvP ship, and use "PvP weapons", over the ones I enjoy using.

As much as I'd love better NPC's, if you made them as good as an apex PvP ship, they'd actually be really boring to fight.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Well as it stands. A engineered vipermk3 shouldnt be able to take out a NPC Elite Conda with no issue. To engineered ships NPC's are a joke

So, im going to reference another game here. For the sake of argument. There is no reason for people say thats another style of game and it doesnt apply and so on.

In league of Legends, Minions are for farming money, and pushing towers. They are assets to either team.

Thats what NPC's are in Elite; Assets to controlling systems or factions within them. Anyone thats used the BGS intentionally can tell ya the Conda will be a tad bit tankier, and the Vulture will maneuver a bit better. Sometimes better than the CMDR.

But they are used to be farmed, and are supposed to be easy.

The players in this case, relating back to League of Legends here. PVP to protect the last hitting of those minions. Or in this case ships that are connected to Player Faction %'s.

They are tokens people are wanting to attack and defend. Yes they are a PVE part of the game. But protecting them with PVP should be viable here.

Its the whole reason we're in this mess to begin with.

Even though they are two separate genres of games. The premise still applies. Those NPC's are meant to be farmed and killed. Some what Difficult but killable.

They arent supposed to be as strong as another player. Thats what the other players are for....

These are attack and defend scenarios.

Good news is the way its set up. It translates for the beginner all the way to the highest experience person in the game. The issue is objectives being taken and no definition here, you guessed it. The modes.

So people dont get to attack and defend.

The understanding on why those ships are killable with a Viper MK3 doesnt make sense to some. Because they never venture into this part of the game.

The two games are very much related.

Hope this makes sense o7o7.

 

[Jockey79]

So, im going to reference another game here. For the sake of argument. There is no reason for people say thats another style of game and it doesnt apply and so on.

Yes there is, because you seem to think a game made for PvP and nothing but PvP is comparable to a game where PvP can be completely ignored.
This is the whole flaw in your thinking.

Elite could turn off PvP and the fundamental game would be exactly the same.
LOL can never turn off PvP because there is no game without it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It does not specify.. killing other players for no reason is perfectly legit gameplay. Saying it is not is applying your own moral ruleset to the practice and claiming that is the official position of Frontier, which it is not.

Now if you want to talk about whether it is a cool thing to be doing, that's another discussion.

Now look what you lot make me do. Imma gonna have to agree with the dirty lowlife PvPer here.

Thank a bunch! [mad]

Also, because you used the word "legit" I now have McHammer in my head telling me he won't stop because his actions are well within legal scope.

 

[Surprised Brony]

Haven't read all 400+ posts.

PvE Vs PvP will never be perfectly balanced.

PvPers don't need most of the modules that PvE players need.

And PvE combat, in general, is lower DPS, but sustainable. PvP is high DPS, particularly alpha damage.

PvP is also an "apex sport", where is PvE is whatevers comfortable.

I'd actually hate it if I had to make my mission runner combat ship as maxed out as a PvP ship, and use "PvP weapons", over the ones I enjoy using.

As much as I'd love better NPC's, if you made them as good as an apex PvP ship, they'd actually be really boring to fight.

Try to think solely in terms of combat. Not PvE as a whole. Your argument is the same as someone saying that traders vs PvP ships are unbalanced, as they inherently should be. Mission runners are not combat ships. They can hold their own, and in many cases destroy every NPC threat. But that's combat against still vastly underpowered foes.

I think that's what most of us are talking about. One style of pure combat vs another. The optimal loadouts differ. It'd be nice if they didn't. We're not asking for normal missions to throw min-maxed NPCs with god skills at you. We're asking for them to exist in appropriate places so that a PvP player has PvE content to enjoy that won't end in hatemail or logging. :3

 

[Vorxian]

Tis a shame that players seem incapable of organising themselves and even policing themselves like many other game communities do...

I think originally the sentiment was there to do this, but there's such a divide between those that have absolutely nailed the combat mechanic and magnify that several fold with engineered munitions... and those that fancy some casual PvP combat.

Me, I'm classed as dangerous for early days npc shooting.. but i'm as much threat to a seasoned combat pilot as a lettuce is to a guinea pig.

Combat against another player is futile for me. I'll have better luck winning the lottery without buying a ticket. Therefore me actively trying to police anything is a belly laugh in the making.. The people that can actually pilot and shoot things are hunting people like me, because it's fun pigeon shooting, not so fun, if the pigeon gets out a gun and starts shooting the shooters but me, heck yeah I have no problem admitting that i'm a fish in a barrel... a useless one at that.. so i'll be found taking selfies in the void most times, as well as hauling shipments across space!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Oh, and I don't do PvP on this game. Oh, that means I'm supposed to hate it and vilify it doesn't it? Too bad.

Not at all. I think most here agree that PvP has its place in ED. Its just the less savoury PvPers give PvP a bad name, just as some of the less savoury PvEers can also give PvE a bad name.

 

[Jockey79]

.... just as some of the less savoury PvEers can also give PvE a bad name.

aww, you're not that bad.

 

[sollisb]

I wonder how detrimental to the game it would be if PvP was disallowed? We'd lose a few players, but..

 

[jasonbarron]

Exploiters exist across all modes and playstyles.

Anyone who preys on other players as game content but scuttles off into a different mode to grind the ship/money, clear bounties, do engineering is definitely hiding rather than play with the risks players like themselves present to others. It's a hypocrisy thing, when those same players ask for mode removal it's a blatant hypocrisy thing.



No I initially argued that the tools don't work. I then used the lack of bounty hunting videos against salt gathering to demonstrate the game has far more murder trolls than actual bad-guys, I'm using the term bad-guy to refer to people who actually play the game as a villain not guys who are bad. I haven't met a real pirate in game in about three years, I think they both left.



There are no targets for PVP bounty hunting, someone hanging around a station trying to suicide ram anyone who's speeding is just block fodder.

I don't understand what your criteria for proper bounty hunting is. I gather that you don't consider someone equipping a kws and going after players with bounties counts as proper bounty hunting, so I'm unclear what you expect. Vin Delanos shared a few videos and started an awesome thread about bounty hunting post 3.0, and I know the Harry has released some bounty hunting compilations. I'm still trying to get all my ducks in a row with engineering before I embark on my career as a lawman, but I promise I'll produce some videos and share those, too.

 

[Han_Zen]

I wonder how detrimental to the game it would be if PvP was disallowed? We'd lose a few players, but..

We would at least lose a few updates, as it would require a massive rewrite of the game.

 

[Jockey79]

I wonder how detrimental to the game it would be if PvP was disallowed? We'd lose a few players, but..

For the purpose of general game play, we'd hardly notice any difference. Though Open would be busier.

However, for the purpose of game balance it would be devastating. As NPCs cannot complain when something is broken or over powered.

 

[verminstar]

I think originally the sentiment was there to do this, but there's such a divide between those that have absolutely nailed the combat mechanic and magnify that several fold with engineered munitions... and those that fancy some casual PvP combat.

Me, I'm classed as dangerous for early days npc shooting.. but i'm as much threat to a seasoned combat pilot as a lettuce is to a guinea pig.

Combat against another player is futile for me. I'll have better luck winning the lottery without buying a ticket. Therefore me actively trying to police anything is a belly laugh in the making.. The people that can actually pilot and shoot things are hunting people like me, because it's fun pigeon shooting, not so fun, if the pigeon gets out a gun and starts shooting the shooters but me, heck yeah I have no problem admitting that i'm a fish in a barrel... a useless one at that.. so i'll be found taking selfies in the void most times, as well as hauling shipments across space!

Tell ye what...past few months Ive started the engineer grind from scratch and its been an eye watering experience. When I think of how much ive done and how much is still left to do, it makes me think going back to solo is akin to self preserving my love fer the game. To get anywhere in pvp, it has to be done which is half the reason I started...lately Im struggling to remember what the other half of the reason was.

Im at the point where just about any half decent pvpr will fry me with ease, and yet the npc are all mind numbingly too easy...not liking this middle ground one little bit and am beginning to falter and stumble with the grind wall I have to admit. Could be time soon to just quit while Im ahead and move back to solo cos past few months in open have not been all that inspiring...and thats being nice.

Its not hard or challenging...its mind numbingly boring and the biggest challenge is actually staying awake but Ive achieved what I set out to achieve and did it in half the time I originally set aside fer it. I now have the cutter and if I keep going, the vette before the end of tis month.

But my motivation levels are beginning to dip...not fer the game as a whole which I passionately love...but the grind is beginning to take a toll now and the salt in open got boring months ago. I came, I saw and see no argument from any pvpr that inspires me in any shape or form...hoped fer better...sadly not seeing it ^

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't understand what your criteria for proper bounty hunting is. I gather that you don't consider someone equipping a kws and going after players with bounties counts as proper bounty hunting, so I'm unclear what you expect. Vin Delanos shared a few videos and started an awesome thread about bounty hunting post 3.0, and I know the Harry has released some bounty hunting compilations. I'm still trying to get all my ducks in a row with engineering before I embark on my career as a lawman, but I promise I'll produce some videos and share those, too.

You got the right avatar for a Miami Vice style lawman.

 

[Han_Zen]

You got the right avatar for a Miami Vice style lawman.

The Jasonbarron avatar discunion is in the PvP section(Welcome to PvP thread), Ziggy.

 

[Vorxian]

Tell ye what...past few months Ive started the engineer grind from scratch....

haha I did that........ Engineered my FSD...... then... well, you can find me around colonia at the moment

no bubble for me! The upgraded FSD was the only excuse I needed

 

[jasonbarron]

Not at all. I think most here agree that PvP has its place in ED. Its just the less savoury PvPers give PvP a bad name, just as some of the less savoury PvEers can also give PvE a bad name.

Sure AA, and those of you who dawdle through your PvE group/solo careers never exploring the full range of even those activities much less engaging in PvP should be the one's who define when and where "PvP has it's place," right?

Relevant to our recent discussion, this right here is a bit of a stumbling block for me.

 

[Stigbob]

I don't understand what your criteria for proper bounty hunting is. I gather that you don't consider someone equipping a kws and going after players with bounties counts as proper bounty hunting, so I'm unclear what you expect. Vin Delanos shared a few videos and started an awesome thread about bounty hunting post 3.0, and I know the Harry has released some bounty hunting compilations. I'm still trying to get all my ducks in a row with engineering before I embark on my career as a lawman, but I promise I'll produce some videos and share those, too.

A bounty hunter oddly enough engages in the hunting of bounties.

So was Harry protecting the weak against notorious pirates and murderer's or was he just after an easy kill by exploding someone who messed up with friendly fire ?.

Because if it's the second he's not a bounty hunter he's just trying to suck salt, like some unconvincing rubber faced star trek beastie.

I know the best way for him to do that is by deliberately portraying himself as a bounty hunter on a technicality and feigning ignorance when people just laugh, and to be honest I think he's good at what he does. But he should just own it people would respect that more, but he can't do that because it would gather less salt.

Quite fitting in this thread really.

 

[jasonbarron]

You got the right avatar for a Miami Vice style lawman.

I loved Miami Vice! What say we hook up and bounty hunt together? You can be Tubbs.
[video=youtube;E1o-NWNmQLM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1o-NWNmQLM[/video]

A bounty hunter oddly enough engages in the hunting of bounties.

So was Harry protecting the weak against notorious pirates and murderer's or was he just after an easy kill by exploding someone who messed up with friendly fire ?.

Because if it's the second he's not a bounty hunter he's just trying to suck salt, like some unconvincing rubber faced star trek beastie.

I know the best way for him to do that is by deliberately portraying himself as a bounty hunter on a technicality and feigning ignorance when people just laugh, and to be honest I think he's good at what he does. But he should just own it people would respect that more, but he can't do that because it would gather less salt.

Quite fitting in this thread really.

See, this is where I'm confused; is it okay or not to equip an kws and harvest bounty receipts whether big or small, or are you just going to insist on making a value judgment if the score isn't "big enough?"

 

[Robert Maynard]

What then is PvP's place in a game where it is an entirely optional activity?