PvP The PvE <-> PvP Rift

[Mohrgan]

Explain how OPEN is not at a disadvantage vs SOLO when it comes to pushing PVE tokens. One has oppositon of PVP outfitted ships and the other are NPCs that dont care about you. How are those modes equal?

Because that opposition is not pervasive. It can come and go depending on the area or system where any given player is operating. Simply, because in open PvP can be avoided too. You are attempting to raise open to a level of opposition that just doesn't exist. Hot Spots, I guess, have the threat you are trying to apply to the whole. But, it's just not so across the board. I suggest that actual PvP encounters, between aligned players be rewarded. Rather than reward the threat of an extra risk. Incentivizing open serves only to increase the frequency of PvP, if that, rather than make it more meaningful.

But, the real thrust of my argument is that making each Commander equal, in the eyes of the game, is more important than making the modes equal, in everybody's eyes. Each player can decide just how they want to play, at any given moment. If you feel put out because you believe another mode offers a magical bonus, you are welcomed to take advantage of that perception. The game isn't stopping you. If you choose not to, why should that burden be put on other players? Your choices should only have consequences to you.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

The point here is not to attract PVE players to OPEN. The point in adding an extra reward to a more challenging game mode is to discourage PF and PP groups to run to SOLO in order to avoid direct opposition.

Again, to repeat, if you have a conflict with another PF or PP player group you should be facing them DIRECTLY.

If you are a simple PVE player that just plays for own progression the private modes are not an issue and this whole debate doesnt have anything to do with you.

Suck it up buttercup, this is the game you bought

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Suck it up buttercup, this is the game you bought

Don't cry about being ganked later because that's pretty much all there is to it.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Don't cry about being ganked later because that's pretty much all there is to it.

Shaking in me boots buttercup.

 

[Brrokk]

No, I won't. I can't see a reason for any player to get involved with aspects of the game they can choose not to. Each and every Commander has the ability to control their E|D experience. That each Commander has equal access to all of the game's content, ensures a perfectly level playing field. Just as one tailors their ship for a given task, so can they tailor the environment they game in.

That's the basic disconnect you have. You fail to accept how the game is actually designed, and insist there has to have been some mistake. "How can it be that open/PvP isn't the root of all game play?" The Modes were created to offer the most expansive gaming experience E|D can offer, to as many different types of players as possible. E|D owes a great deal of it's success to this decision. It would make no sense for them to risk that success, for the sake of one grouping of players.

This. The mode design, giving many different "types" of player what they want, is an inspired design which multiplies the player base far beyond what it would have been for only one type of play. The resulting revenue gets all of us a better game than what we would otherwise have had (if we had a game at all).

 

[jasonbarron]

This. The mode design, giving many different "types" of player what they want, is an inspired design which multiplies the player base far beyond what it would have been for only one type of play. The resulting revenue gets all of us a better game than what we would otherwise have had (if we had a game at all).

I tend to look at it from the opposite side of the coin: by structuring the game in such a way that ensures a lack of fairness and continuity for all involved, they've chased off god alone knows how many players who've taken one look at the situation and said "No way Jose'," resulting in much lower revenue than optimal. Besides, all I'm seeing is ED revenue getting poured into frontier's two other new game's anyhow, so moot point there at the end.

 

[Brrokk]

I tend to look at it from the opposite side of the coin: by structuring the game in such a way that ensures a lack of fairness and continuity for all involved, they've chased off god alone knows how many players who've taken one look at the situation and said "No way Jose'," resulting in much lower revenue than optimal. Besides, all I'm seeing is ED revenue getting poured into frontier's two other new game's anyhow, so moot point there at the end.

I think "lack of fairness" is wrong, because any of us can make use of any of the game features equally. I call that fair. There are indeed compromises, so that none of us quite get the game we would have liked 100%, but I think FD have done a good job of setting these to satisfy as many players as possible. I think the threads we see here bear this out.

 

[jasonbarron]

I think "unfair" is the wrong word, because any of us can make use of any of the game features equally. I call that fair. There are indeed compromises, so that none of us quite get the game we would have liked 100%, but I think FD have done a good job of setting these to satisfy as many players as possible. I think the threads we see here bear this out.

It's only fair in the most simplistic sense. The way the system works right now is the unshielded trader/docking computer & planetary hanger equipped FdL crowd can basically run the show by filling their PvE "buckets" as others have put it, while players who have honed their skills at combat and have properly outfitted their ships with the very latest in cutting edge technologies are forced to put all of their skills and hard work in the locker and just fill their buckets, too. "Fair" would be a system that didn't force me to shelve my hard won skills and instead allowed me to pursue those bucket fillers and loose the entire array of my skillset on them in order to make them go fill their buckets somewhere else.

Not only isn't the system fair, it's patently stupid given the fact that in most cases, certainly that of PowerPlay, we're supposed to be fighting a war where conflict is not only implied but explicity outlined.

 

[Han_Zen]

It's only fair in the most simplistic sense. The way the system works right now is the unshielded trader/docking computer & planetary hanger equipped FdL crowd can basically run the show by filling their PvE "buckets" as others have put it, while players who have honed their skills at combat and have properly outfitted their ships with the very latest in cutting edge technologies are forced to put all of their skills and hard work in the locker and just fill their buckets, too. "Fair" would be a system that didn't force me to shelve my hard won skills and instead allowed me to pursue those bucket fillers and loose the entire array of my skillset on them in order to make them go fill their buckets somewhere else.

Not only isn't the system fair, it's patently stupid given the fact that in most cases, certainly that of PowerPlay, we're supposed to be fighting a war where conflict is not only implied but explicity outlined.

The brutal reality is that you can’t make people play with you in a P2P game. You have to make them want to.
Meeting you(or anyone) has to be the carrot that draws players to open.

It’s a challenge for the devs. Not an easy one.

As long as the bucket carrier ship is at 1/10 of the strenght of those that attempt to stop it, it will be extra hard.

 

[Roybe]

Explain how OPEN is not at a disadvantage vs SOLO when it comes to pushing PVE tokens. One has oppositon of PVP outfitted ships and the other are NPCs that dont care about you. How are those modes equal?

How often do your really see a PVP player in Open...or when you are moving a systems %. <shrug>

I tend to look at it from the opposite side of the coin: by structuring the game in such a way that ensures a lack of fairness and continuity for all involved, they've chased off god alone knows how many players who've taken one look at the situation and said "No way Jose'," resulting in much lower revenue than optimal. Besides, all I'm seeing is ED revenue getting poured into frontier's two other new game's anyhow, so moot point there at the end.

Meh...the money is going to go into those games anyway...I own all the 'new' space games..NMS, E: D, and SC...

The devs are aware that some people might not like this game...the honestly have stated that is fine.

 

[Roybe]

It's only fair in the most simplistic sense. The way the system works right now is the unshielded trader/docking computer & planetary hanger equipped FdL crowd can basically run the show by filling their PvE "buckets" as others have put it, while players who have honed their skills at combat and have properly outfitted their ships with the very latest in cutting edge technologies are forced to put all of their skills and hard work in the locker and just fill their buckets, too. "Fair" would be a system that didn't force me to shelve my hard won skills and instead allowed me to pursue those bucket fillers and loose the entire array of my skillset on them in order to make them go fill their buckets somewhere else.

Not only isn't the system fair, it's patently stupid given the fact that in most cases, certainly that of PowerPlay, we're supposed to be fighting a war where conflict is not only implied but explicity outlined.

I do agree with you. PVP is not included in the BGS bucket races. Sorry...but that is by design. I, like you, wish it was otherwise...but it's not...and the devs have been fairly clear that it won't be. I don't while away my life whining about it...I play the game the way it is. I will stop when I have no more interest in it.

 

[Sysmon]

snip

Enjoy your break! Come back rested and fresh of mind.

S

 

[jasonbarron]

I do agree with you. PVP is not included in the BGS bucket races. Sorry...but that is by design. I, like you, wish it was otherwise...but it's not...and the devs have been fairly clear that it won't be. I don't while away my life whining about it...I play the game the way it is. I will stop when I have no more interest in it.

Me clearing up the staggering amount of disinformation, hypocrisy and obfuscation isn't "whining" by a long shot.

 

[Roybe]

Me clearing up the staggering amount of disinformation, hypocrisy and obfuscation isn't "whining" by a long shot.

Potatos, potahtos

What you call disinformation, hypocrisy, and obfuscation, is just railing against an immovable wall....good luck with that.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Many replies in this thread beg the question, if you hate the mode system so much, why did you buy a game in which the modes are equal and then proceed to moan about it?

 

[jasonbarron]

Many replies in this thread beg the question, if you hate the mode system so much, why did you buy a game in which the modes are equal and then proceed to moan about it?

Because in many ways the game shines through despite that mess. That, and the fact that I had no idea what the significance was until I'd played the heck out of the game.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Because in many ways the game shines through despite that mess. That, and the fact that I had no idea what the significance was until I'd played the heck out of the game.

In which case the error is your's, why should the game then be changed to suit those who purchased it believing it to be something else? Why should others have features removed for your mistake?

 

[ALGOMATIC]

In which case the error is your's, why should the game then be changed to suit those who purchased it believing it to be something else? Why should others have features removed for your mistake?

Because PvP doesnt work the way it is intended. All its good for is mindless 1 v 1 or salt mining. It creates toxicity everywhere, PVE players getting ganked while PvP players have nothing to do with their ships.
PP and BGS are an outlet for this but the PG and solo modes stand in the way to make a properly dynamic expirience.

What is the point doing PVE grind and calling it a "war". Its not a war in any shape or form, its some mindless grind competition over nothing in particular. Its fake news and I highly doubt FDEV advertises the game as "grind to win in your own PG vs other PGs".

 

[Brrokk]

It's only fair in the most simplistic sense. ...

No. "Any of us can make use of any of the game features equally" is fair. There's nothing simplistic about that view, it's the very essence of fairness.

I understand that the result is that some people use game features in ways others don't like, but that's not unfairness. We all have the same access to the same opportunities.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Because PvP doesnt work the way it is intended. All its good for is mindless 1 v 1 or salt mining. It creates toxicity everywhere, PVE players getting ganked while PvP players have nothing to do with their ships.
PP and BGS are an outlet for this but the PG and solo modes stand in the way to make a properly dynamic expirience.

What is the point doing PVE grind and calling it a "war". Its not a war in any shape or form, its some mindless grind competition over nothing in particular. Its fake news and I highly doubt FDEV advertises the game as "grind to win in your own PG vs other PGs".

It is your opinion that pvp doesn't work as intended not fact; again if pvp groups are avoiding pvp in open that's the groups problem not the modes. Bgs and PP were never stated to be for Pvp only.