Modes These arguments are tedious.

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Mouse

Mouse
No matter how many times someone suggests something or starts a discussion it seems to always end up the same way going over the same subjects. Well how about something new.

Certain PVPcentric players want to hamstring Solo and Private groups, making their contributions to the BGS to either not count or 25% of what counts from Open. So lets say the PVE community were to agree to this and accept 25%, it leaves nothing for them really and nothing for PVPers in regards to affecting the BGS, PP, and such.. all it does is benefit playing in Open and insidiously giving certain people more targets as people come to Open to try and effect the BGS.

Well lets have a compromise. IF, and I do mean IF, the PVE community were to agree to this nuke of our ability in Solo and Private groups then concessions need to be made to us as well.

In Open:

1. Flag system - inability to PVP someone not flagged for PVP. This includes ramming, no damage to the rammed ship, yet if you ram the ship over a certain speed... the station destroys you... so better stay below that speed limit.

2. PVP actually effects the BGS and PP. This is something some PVPers have asked for... yet that effect is the same as the new Solo and Player Group effects.. 25%.

So there... you possibly may get more people in Open, you get PVP with those who want to, and finally you can effect the BGS by PVP.

In Private Groups and Solo to counter the lesser effect and keep things fair maybe better profits? I would love to hear other ideas.

This is not a declaration of "We must do this"... this is a discussion.. some people want PGs and Solo to be nerfed or locked and claim they are bad (which is malarkey) so this is just thoughts on IF their idea of making PG's and Solo less effective to the BGS was taken seriously, then how would we alter Open to keep things balanced and fair.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
That won't be acceptable to certain players. They don't want people to be safe from attack in any shape or form. Its not the first time a PvP flag system has been proposed, you know that.

They won't be happy unless everyone is forced to be a target for them.
 

Mouse

Mouse
Agony_Aunt said:
That won't be acceptable to certain players. They don't want people to be safe from attack in any shape or form. Its not the first time a PvP flag system has been proposed, you know that.

They won't be happy unless everyone is forced to be a target for them.
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yes but if they want to compromise they have to give something up as well.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
The never-ending nature of the argument is based on some simple choices that Frontier have made:

1) from the very beginning the intended game experience for every player, regardless of game mode, involves both experiencing and affecting the single shared galaxy state (now usually referred to as the BGS).
2) rather than a one-time choice as to which of the three game modes to play in, Frontier chose to leave that decision to every player, every time they launch the game.
3) when Community Goals were introduced their implementation in all three game modes followed the player freedom philosophy from 1) and 2).
4) when PowerPlay was introduced its implementation in all three game modes followed the player freedom philosophy from 1) and 2).
5) a pure PvP arena mode was offered for sale (free to those who own the main game) but proved to be unpopular.
6) when player groups were permitted to submit requests for the introduction of a player supported Faction in-game, there was no change to the way that Factions are affected, i.e. players in all game modes continue to affect the BGS in the same way with no distinction between player and NPC factions.

All of this relates to the base game, i.e. happened within the first year of release.

7) when each console version has been released, players on each new platform simply increase the number who affect the BGS.
8) console players without premium platform access can only play in Solo and there is no requirement for those players to have premium platform access.

Summarising, every player has bought access to the BGS, CGs, PowerPlay & Player Factions as part of their purchase of the base game, regardless of which game mode they play in.

That there are players who do not accept this is obvious - however Frontier are on record as stating (on more than one occasion) that they consider all game modes to be equal and valid game choices - and that they acknowledge that not all players will agree with their stance.

With no movement from Frontier regarding what is, by some, perceived to be a problem, the argument goes on.
 
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UmbraRex

UmbraRex
Lestenio said:
Never did get the PvP flag system as it seems pointless to be instanced with targets you can't interact with. Lose lose for both parties.
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I would rather see:

If you have PvP-off you will not be instanced with anyone who has PvP-on.

Than:

If you have PvP-off you cannot be damaged by or damage anyone with PvP-on.

A couple caveats, if you pledge to a power you are locked PvP-on, and if you have PvP-on you cannot log in solo or PG.

Of course, then the complaint will be 'People are hiding PvP-off, it needs to be removed'.

I'm thinking Specific, Pilots Federation stations are the only places you can switch to PvP-off, placed only in high sec systems but you can go PvP-on anywhere there is an IF, or automatically when you pledge to a power.
 
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Mohrgan

Mohrgan
UmbraRex said:
I would rather see:

If you have PvP-off you will not be instanced with anyone who has PvP-on.

Than:

If you have PvP-off you cannot be damaged by or damage anyone with PvP-on.

A couple caveats, if you pledge to a power you are locked PvP-on, and if you have PvP-on you cannot log in solo or PG.

Of course, then the complaint will be 'People are hiding PvP-off, it needs to be removed'.

I'm thinking Specific, Pilots Federation stations are the only places you can switch to PvP-off, placed only in high sec systems but you can go PvP-on anywhere there is an IF, or automatically when you pledge to a power.
Click to expand...

Locking people into open+PvP when pledged effectively takes PP away from players who aren't interested in PvP. This is something to be avoided. Removing content never ends well.

It's a dual option situation. For those interested in PP, they choose to pledge, with a warning, and become PvP targets only when they also choose to log into open. This way, there are no excuses when they are attacked or destroyed.

Some Commanders cannot abide other players choosing how they engage. It is best if we just discount that type of concern as not in the spirit of E|D's design. Otherwise, will leave everyone, and any chance for change, at the mercy of PvP fanatics.
 
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UmbraRex

UmbraRex
UmbraRex said:
I would rather see:

If you have PvP-off you will not be instanced with anyone who has PvP-on.

Than:

If you have PvP-off you cannot be damaged by or damage anyone with PvP-on.

A couple caveats, if you pledge to a power you are locked PvP-on, and if you have PvP-on you cannot log in solo or PG.

Of course, then the complaint will be 'People are hiding PvP-off, it needs to be removed'.

I'm thinking Specific, Pilots Federation stations are the only places you can switch to PvP-off, placed only in high sec systems but you can go PvP-on anywhere there is an IF, or automatically when you pledge to a power.
Click to expand...

Mohrgan said:
Locking people into open+PvP when pledged effectively takes PP away from players who aren't interested in PvP. This is something to be avoided. Removing content never ends well.

It's a dual option situation. For those interested in PP, they choose to pledge, with a warning, and become PvP targets only when they also choose to log into open. This way, there are no excuses when they are attacked or destroyed.

Some Commanders cannot abide other players choosing how they engage. It is best if we just discount that type of concern as not in the spirit of E|D's design. Otherwise, will leave everyone, and any chance for change, at the mercy of PvP fanatics.
Click to expand...

Perhaps allow PG then when PvP-on is set by pledging to a power? Just throwing ideas out here. I don't actually expect FDev to change anything.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Everyone bought PowerPlay - not just those who enjoy direct PvP - and it was consciously implemented in all three game modes.
 
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Mohrgan

Mohrgan
UmbraRex said:
Perhaps allow PG then when PvP-on is set by pledging to a power? Just throwing ideas out here. I don't actually expect FDev to change anything.
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Or, we just leave access as it is, and make changes that don't restrict access to current content. I'm all for creating content/mechanics that make PvP more influential, and meaningful. What I am not for is taking content/mechanics away from players for the sake of PvP.
 

verminstar

Banned
verminstar
Mouse said:
No matter how many times someone suggests something or starts a discussion it seems to always end up the same way going over the same subjects. Well how about something new.

Certain PVPcentric players want to hamstring Solo and Private groups, making their contributions to the BGS to either not count or 25% of what counts from Open. So lets say the PVE community were to agree to this and accept 25%, it leaves nothing for them really and nothing for PVPers in regards to affecting the BGS, PP, and such.. all it does is benefit playing in Open and insidiously giving certain people more targets as people come to Open to try and effect the BGS.

Well lets have a compromise. IF, and I do mean IF, the PVE community were to agree to this nuke of our ability in Solo and Private groups then concessions need to be made to us as well.

In Open:

1. Flag system - inability to PVP someone not flagged for PVP. This includes ramming, no damage to the rammed ship, yet if you ram the ship over a certain speed... the station destroys you... so better stay below that speed limit.

2. PVP actually effects the BGS and PP. This is something some PVPers have asked for... yet that effect is the same as the new Solo and Player Group effects.. 25%.

So there... you possibly may get more people in Open, you get PVP with those who want to, and finally you can effect the BGS by PVP.

In Private Groups and Solo to counter the lesser effect and keep things fair maybe better profits? I would love to hear other ideas.

This is not a declaration of "We must do this"... this is a discussion.. some people want PGs and Solo to be nerfed or locked and claim they are bad (which is malarkey) so this is just thoughts on IF their idea of making PG's and Solo less effective to the BGS was taken seriously, then how would we alter Open to keep things balanced and fair.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly the reason I more or less just gave up trying at all...it always, without fail every single time always boils down to the same damned thing...buff open and nerf everything else.

Every...single...time. And thats why it will never be accepted by either players or frontier...and still after 4 or 5 years...still they dont get it. Just gets to the point where yer banging yer head against a wall frustrated with it and then its more merciful than anything when the threads are dumped outta deranged discussion into their own little place.

I repped ye and absolutely 100% agree...there must be some giving before there is any taking. If they unbalance the modes, it breaks the game guys...so dont unbalance the modes and find a way around the problem instead of trying to break down the front door with brute force alone.

A valiant effort...time will tell if the penny drops fer those who are trapped in their own circular argument ^
 

wrmiller

W
verminstar said:
Thats exactly the reason I more or less just gave up trying at all...it always, without fail every single time always boils down to the same damned thing...buff open and nerf everything else.

Every...single...time. And thats why it will never be accepted by either players or frontier...and still after 4 or 5 years...still they dont get it. Just gets to the point where yer banging yer head against a wall frustrated with it and then its more merciful than anything when the threads are dumped outta deranged discussion into their own little place.

I repped ye and absolutely 100% agree...there must be some giving before there is any taking. If they unbalance the modes, it breaks the game guys...so dont unbalance the modes and find a way around the problem instead of trying to break down the front door with brute force alone.

A valiant effort...time will tell if the penny drops fer those who are trapped in their own circular argument ^
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I am no MMO expert, but after following this stuff for over a year now I get the impression that this is always the problem with any multi-player game.

Short of implementing the nuclear option of abandoning multi-player entirely, I see no real solution to these issues?
 

wrmiller

W
picommander said:
As a strict PvE player I don't like a PvP flag system, I'd rather play in a forced Open only game. The mode mix we have is barely acceptable and certainly the less immersion killing solution IMO.
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By "forced open" you mean everyone plays in open mode? From what I've seen in-game and read about on these forums I think I'd rather shoot some of them in the face with a 12 ga. ;)

I'd not buy any game that is open only.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
It comes down to how "PvP tolerant" each player is.

This game does not require any player to be PvP tolerant as players can choose a game mode that best suits their individual preference.
 
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