I dont get why everyone thinks Ellite is such a grind

[DR Grandreefer]

I clearly got my point out and thank everyone that supported and upvoted my comments. I guess for some only PVP is what matters and even worse, some don’t even have a good reason to load the game up. But for everyone else trying to progress I’m telling you it can be easy. It doesn’t have to be the same stuff over and over. Sometimes just knowing what you have to do next and sticking to the goal is the biggest battle. It can be easy to get sidetracked in this massive game. I just want more people to play the game. Downvotes for all the comments that do other wise. O7 CMDRs.

 

[Dbrn47]

I clearly got my point out and thank everyone that supported and upvoted my comments. I guess for some only PVP is what matters and even worse, some don’t even have a good reason to load the game up. But for everyone else trying to progress I’m telling you it can be easy. It doesn’t have to be the same stuff over and over. Sometimes just knowing what you have to do next and sticking to the goal is the biggest battle. It can be eaasy to get sidetracked. I just want more people to play the game. Downvotes for all the comments that do other wise. O7 CMDRs.

Yes it's easy, yes you can do different mission templates, yes you don't literally have to do the same single mission over and over. However, sticking to a goal, is in fact, what brings the strongest feelings of grind to many. The actual best advice, I believe, was to lose focus and do some other things in between your main objective. We all want more people to play the game, most of us want Frontier to make tons of money and continue developing this thing, but I for one am going to continue holding them accountable for that tons of money and time we spend playing, grinding, sceen-shotting, watching Netflix, or insert favorite word here. Braben has expressed he wants the game to be more than 80s Elite before, why wouldn't we also want it to be?

Realize that we both love the game, but in different ways. Your efforts to express your passion for it positively is noted and respected, though it doesn't mean people are wrong for how they perceive their own experience.

 

[DR Grandreefer]

I've played since release, I know how far the game has come. The difference seems to be that you're happy where it is, while I'm looking at where it could go. Getting the game to where it is doesn't make them above critique on the things that are still weak. I've also never said I don't want to play the game nor am I talking down to you and I really don't know what your mission logs have anything to do with what I said. That was an attempt to help you understand, if you feel like I stepped on you about it, I'm not sure what to tell you, it certainly wasn't the intention or expected outcome.

I will agree that I may have lumped you in with the rest of the nay sayers and if I did I do apologize. You do bring up a good and very different point then everyone else. I am not ok with the game sitting still. TBH it’s far from that and never has been. Things will change. Bugs will break stuff and balance is always apart of the conversation for everything applied to the game. I am still just standing my ground on how easy it can all be. Any mission logs are updated automatically on my PC account. All missions completed are shown and you can see that I have been purposely doing everything. Just trying all mission types. Keeping it interesting. Doing the same thing over and over and then complaining about it is...oh what is that Einstein saying? “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I feel that there is too much to do to feel like that anytime before you’re in your first true billion credit vessel. This may be my opinion but I have gotten others to the same opinion after telling them a few tips. Ok, it usually ends up with a lot of tips but I like to think positive when training new people to play Elite.

 

[Micha]

I'm dreadfully sorry, but I haven't read every post in this thread yet, so if this has been covered already, please refer me to the relevant page(s).

I think there's a couple of different approaches to this game and the different approaches have difficulty understanding each other.

There's the people who just play the game for what it is. Perhaps even role-play it. A lot of these people have experience with the older incarnations of Elite/Frontier, but not necessarily. Relatively few of these kinds of people consider the game grindy, although it can't be argued against that it does end up samey unless you create your own content and engage with other people (eg, group exploration, fuel rats, etc). Largely these people focus on PvE and co-op PwP (Playery -with- Player). But then again, show me any game which doesn't become samey after enough time spent playing it. Most people play games with a strong storyline only once (ie, it's too "samey" to play again), and I can't think of a single sandbox-ish game which doesn't become repetitive. Either you enjoy it and keep playing, or you don't.(*)

Then there's the more competitive people. They generally focus on a particular aspect of the game, often (but not exclusively) PvP, and to become the best requires access to particular ships, modules, engineers, amount of credits; in short, certain resources. For them, the attaining of these resources is grind, because they are only after the end-result (getting a particular ship or engineered module). The how of achieving these resources is not important, the faster the better.

I don't think there's an easy way to merge these broadly two groups of players in the same game. The former group will complain if resources are too easy to attain (and thus decreases the value of any in-game progression), the latter group complains about grind.

While I can understand the complaints of the second group, what I haven't seen much of is concrete suggestions (not general ones) of how to decrease the grind while not decreasing the value of the game for others. FDev tried to cater for the combat-oriented PvPers with CQC, but that didn't turn out to be terribly popular.

So I'd really like to see some concrete suggestions (and if they exist, please point me that way) of how people think the game could be improved to reduce the grind.

(*)EDIT: That's not to say the game is perfect as-is at present; I think most people agree that there's still a huge scope for improvement and many different features we'd all like to see. My point was the core concept of the game is what it is, and either you enjoy it or you don't.

 

[Dbrn47]

I will agree that I may have lumped you in with the rest of the nay sayers and if I did I do apologize. You do bring up a good and very different point then everyone else. I am not ok with the game sitting still. TBH it’s far from that and never has been. Things will change. Bugs will break stuff and balance is always apart of the conversation for everything applied to the game. I am still just standing my ground on how easy it can all be. Any mission logs are updated automatically on my PC account. All missions completed are shown and you can see that I have been purposely doing everything. Just trying all mission types. Keeping it interesting. Doing the same thing over and over and then complaining about it is...oh what is that Einstein saying? “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I feel that there is too much to do to feel like that anytime before you’re in your first true billion credit vessel. This may be my opinion but I have gotten others to the same opinion after telling them a few tips. Ok, it usually ends up with a lot of tips but I like to think positive when training new people to play Elite.

No worries. These topics heat up. Do all the things man, I know I did. The mission system is something I've always been heavily into, through all of its ups and downs. They're really trying over there, it has come a long way, I just wish they could break their tech barriers and give us more complex templates.

 

[jasonbarron]

I will agree that I may have lumped you in with the rest of the nay sayers and if I did I do apologize. You do bring up a good and very different point then everyone else. I am not ok with the game sitting still. TBH it’s far from that and never has been. Things will change. Bugs will break stuff and balance is always apart of the conversation for everything applied to the game. I am still just standing my ground on how easy it can all be. Any mission logs are updated automatically on my PC account. All missions completed are shown and you can see that I have been purposely doing everything. Just trying all mission types. Keeping it interesting. Doing the same thing over and over and then complaining about it is...oh what is that Einstein saying? “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I feel that there is too much to do to feel like that anytime before you’re in your first true billion credit vessel. This may be my opinion but I have gotten others to the same opinion after telling them a few tips. Ok, it usually ends up with a lot of tips but I like to think positive when training new people to play Elite.

If you think he's the only person who is happy with parts of the game at present while also looking forward, you haven't been paying enough attention. We should all be on the same page on this issue: players united for a better game going into the future.

 

[Xious]

You can't tell me that you don't see grind here... grind with a capital G...

Spoiler

 

[DR Grandreefer]

I'm dreadfully sorry, but I haven't read every post in this thread yet, so if this has been covered already, please refer me to the relevant page(s).

I think there's a couple of different approaches to this game and the different approaches have difficulty understanding each other.

There's the people who just play the game for what it is. Perhaps even role-play it. A lot of these people have experience with the older incarnations of Elite/Frontier, but not necessarily. Relatively few of these kinds of people consider the game grindy, although it can't be argued against that it does end up samey unless you create your own content and engage with other people (eg, group exploration, fuel rats, etc). Largely these people focus on PvE and co-op PwP (Playery -with- Player). But then again, show me any game which doesn't become samey after enough time spent playing it. Most people play games with a strong storyline only once (ie, it's too "samey" to play again), and I can't think of a single sandbox-ish game which doesn't become repetitive. Either you enjoy it and keep playing, or you don't.(*)

Then there's the more competitive people. They generally focus on a particular aspect of the game, often (but not exclusively) PvP, and to become the best requires access to particular ships, modules, engineers, amount of credits; in short, certain resources. For them, the attaining of these resources is grind, because they are only after the end-result (getting a particular ship or engineered module). The how of achieving these resources is not important, the faster the better.

I don't think there's an easy way to merge these broadly two groups of players in the same game. The former group will complain if resources are too easy to attain (and thus decreases the value of any in-game progression), the latter group complains about grind.

While I can understand the complaints of the second group, what I haven't seen much of is concrete suggestions (not general ones) of how to decrease the grind while not decreasing the value of the game for others. FDev tried to cater for the combat-oriented PvPers with CQC, but that didn't turn out to be terribly popular.

So I'd really like to see some concrete suggestions (and if they exist, please point me that way) of how people think the game could be improved to reduce the grind.

(*)EDIT: That's not to say the game is perfect as-is at present; I think most people agree that there's still a huge scope for improvement and many different features we'd all like to see. My point was the core concept of the game is what it is, and either you enjoy it or you don't.

Very well said and I didn’t look at it like that before. I very much love every aspect of the game and chose to incorporate every facet of it into my play. This is what makes the Elite so fun and really, for lack of a better word, mesmerizing to me. There is so much going on here and once I saw how everything interconnects(BGS)... I have just been lost ever since. My to do list gets longer every day.

 

[Dbrn47]

So I'd really like to see some concrete suggestions (and if they exist, please point me that way) of how people think the game could be improved to reduce the grind.

(*)EDIT: That's not to say the game is perfect as-is at present; I think most people agree that there's still a huge scope for improvement and many different features we'd all like to see. My point was the core concept of the game is what it is, and either you enjoy it or you don't.

They're out there. Too many to just point them out honestly. It mostly has to do with more layers and cohesiveness for each system, more complexity and interactions to the gameplay that engage you. Being able to map asteroid belts in game, maybe some proper scanning mechanisms for them, more complex scanning mechanisms and heatmaps for exploring planets, being able to narrow down sites and oddities instead of eyeballing things. A lot of the time it feels like we're stuck with less than modern day tech in what is supposed to be the year 3303. Bounty hunting actually be bounty hunting with contacts and scanners to help locate wanted criminals instead of having them simply congregate in an area waiting for you to shoot them. You know, things that make the game more believable and interesting.

It's going to be hard for me to summarize long, well thought out posts. Perhaps if you check the exploration forums, the suggestions there would be most easily found.

 

[Micha]

They're out there. Too many to just point them out honestly. It mostly has to do with more layers and cohesiveness for each system, more complexity and interactions to the gameplay that engage you. Being able to map asteroid belts in game, maybe some proper scanning mechanisms for them, more complex scanning mechanisms and heatmaps for exploring planets, being able to narrow down sites and oddities instead of eyeballing things. A lot of the time it feels like we're stuck with less than modern day tech in what is supposed to be the year 3303. Bounty hunting actually be bounty hunting with contacts and scanners to help locate wanted criminals instead of having them simply congregate in an area waiting for you to shoot them. You know, things that make the game more believable and interesting.

It's going to be hard for me to summarize long, well thought out posts. Perhaps if you check the exploration forums, the suggestions there would be most easily found.

Thanks, I'm somewhat aware of the exploration discussions (being primarily an explorer myself), but a lot of explorers, while obviously wishing for more content/mechanisms, tend not to complain about grind so much.

No, what I was more after was concrete suggestions on how to alleviate the grind. Most things I've read are just generalisations. The missions are boring and repetitive etc. Well, yes. But (unless you're in a story-based game, which ED isn't), where aren't they? Every MMO has a mission generator which churns out the same stuff. "Collect 20 rat tails" etc. You can increase the variety but a month after you do so the community will clamour for more again.
Here's a concrete suggestion: add a mission builder so the communtiy can submit custom missions into the game. There's obviously huge issues with this (balancing effort vs reward for one, suitability (offensive or unsuitable-for-minors material, etc) for another) but that is one way in which the community could be kept engaged and to ensure that missions have a huge variety. But again, you'd need to have the mission-builders build missions fast enough for the mission-consumers to not get bored. Ultimately it's easier to consume content than to produce it. And you'd still end up with "samey" missions; at the end of the day the current game mechanics are limited to fly-somewhere-and-(collect/trade/shoot/scan/evade)-something-and-???(profit). You can wrap some more words around those mechanics and chain them together in myriad ways, but unless more fundamental mechanics are added, that's it.

So now you've got more interesting missions, but so what, the people whose only goal is to get a particularly engineered ship and a certain number of rebuys will still complain about having to grind to get those credits/unlocks to get that ship. They might even complain more because the missions are more involved and take longer. Credits per hour, man, credits per hour!

That's what I meant before about there being different communities within Elite Dangeorus - the ones who largely enjoy the game but want it to be more <something> (engaging, realistic, interesting, etc), and the ones who primarily enjoy a particular aspect of the game and consider everything else necessary to gather enough resources in order to play their particular aspect a grind.

And it's the second community whose ideas I'd like to hear about how to alleviate the grind.

 

[Backelaer]

The fact is, it continues to be a repointless and fruitless debate.

100% right here. I do hope you are willing to acknowledge that the rest of your post was completely superfluous, considering you nailed it in that first sentence.

 

[Red Anders]

I just started a new account on PC as I have been an Xbox Elite Player for years now to the tune of about 6800 hours played(On XBox alone).

It's probably got something to do with the fact your 6,800 hours on your main account would equate to 13 years of gaming for someone able to devote an average of 10 hours a week to this game alone.

Your eight days at an average of 10 hours a week would be 19 weeks, or if you started on 1 January you'd be at the point you describe in your OP by the beginning of May.

10 hours a week is still way more than the actual average game time will be per player by the way.

 

[crushdepth]

It's probably got something to do with the fact your 6,800 hours on your main account would equate to 13 years of gaming for someone able to devote an average of 10 hours a week to this game alone.

Your eight days at an average of 10 hours a week would be 19 weeks, or if you started on 1 January you'd be at the point you describe in your OP by the beginning of May.

10 hours a week is still way more than the actual average game time will be per player by the way.

Ten hours a week is nothing in gaming circles.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

They're out there. Too many to just point them out honestly. It mostly has to do with more layers and cohesiveness for each system, more complexity and interactions to the gameplay that engage you. Being able to map asteroid belts in game, maybe some proper scanning mechanisms for them, more complex scanning mechanisms and heatmaps for exploring planets, being able to narrow down sites and oddities instead of eyeballing things. A lot of the time it feels like we're stuck with less than modern day tech in what is supposed to be the year 3303. Bounty hunting actually be bounty hunting with contacts and scanners to help locate wanted criminals instead of having them simply congregate in an area waiting for you to shoot them. You know, things that make the game more believable and interesting.

It's going to be hard for me to summarize long, well thought out posts. Perhaps if you check the exploration forums, the suggestions there would be most easily found.

Yup they are out there. I don't grind for stuff, but I am not blind to the issue the game has got.

I have put out suggestions of how to improve res sites, combat zones, powerplay, the criminal/smuggling gameplay, the BGS and so on.

But even when I get a load of people saying that they are great ideas and it would give places more variation, a reason to do missions instead of just credit gain and so on, it seems to fall on deaf ears.

The only good thing they have added that adds a smidgen of depth is the evacuate/repair station mechanic, but that should have been part of the BGS in many guises for things like famines, plagues, wars, civil wars and recovery of said states.

 

[crushdepth]

Yup they are out there. I don't grind for stuff, but I am not blind to the issue the game has got.

I have put out suggestions of how to improve res sites, combat zones, powerplay, the criminal/smuggling gameplay, the BGS and so on.

But even when I get a load of people saying that they are great ideas and it would give places more variation, a reason to do missions instead of just credit gain and so on, it seems to fall on deaf ears.

The only good thing they have added that adds a smidgen of depth is the evacuate/repair station mechanic, but that should have been part of the BGS in many guises for things like famines, plagues, wars, civil wars and recovery of said states.

What would've been great would be a chance to defend stations that are actually under attack. I feel like the devs are trolling us by leaving this out, it's unthinkable that it is missing. Incredible. I can only hope they are saving it for later.

The trouble with the rescue missions is that once you've done it once that's pretty much all there is to see. One more nice but static POI from the art department.

 

[Stigbob]

It's probably got something to do with the fact your 6,800 hours on your main account would equate to 13 years of gaming for someone able to devote an average of 10 hours a week to this game alone.

Your eight days at an average of 10 hours a week would be 19 weeks, or if you started on 1 January you'd be at the point you describe in your OP by the beginning of May.

10 hours a week is still way more than the actual average game time will be per player by the way.

DBOBE said sixty hours was the average player time spent in ED, he also said they're not overly interested in content for people with thousands of hours logged. Probably because there's nothing that will ever stay chocolatey in milk for that long.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

What would've been great would be a chance to defend stations that are actually under attack. I feel like the devs are trolling us by leaving this out, it's unthinkable that it is missing. Incredible. I can only hope they are saving it for later.

The trouble with the rescue missions is that once you've done it once that's pretty much all there is to see. One more nice but static POI from the art department.

Yep. But I have to assume it's for the same reason why we don't have combat zones around stations at the moment.

There must be some kind of software limitation that stops them. Maybe it is one of the things they are changing under the hood for the benefit of the long term future of the game that that talked about.

 

[Stigbob]

Yep. But I have to assume it's for the same reason why we don't have combat zones around stations at the moment.

There must be some kind of software limitation that stops them. Maybe it is one of the things they are changing under the hood for the benefit of the long term future of the game that that talked about.

If the station guns were on the attackers would get slaughtered, if they were off people would moan. If the station was indestructible people would moan, if they were destructible we'd have no stations.

Lore wise maybe a space faring civilization wouldn't target their own species civilian orbital habitats.

The thargoids are different though.

 

[lokvette]

I
Lore wise maybe a space faring civilization wouldn't target their own species civilian orbital habitats.

Humans never bet on anything.

 

[mdmaniac44]

I can understand why some people feel as though this game might be "grindy." I've played a lot of space simulators - hi class of 87! - since an early age and from what I've seen, FDev have done something that has NEVER been achieved before in a space sim. Thus, this game is only as grindy as you make it.

Take an old favourite of mine - Freelancer. It was, essentially, open world play and you could choose your "career." You could be a trader, a bounty hunter or a pirate. Problem was, each of those choices involved exactly the same game mechanics. You had to fly somewhere and fight a bunch of other ships. Yes, even as a trader, because you'd get pulled out of the hyperspace lanes by pirates in almost every system. And, of course, you had to fly to the system furthest from where you picked up your goods in order to make a profit. At the end, the only way to get the best 2 ships was to become a pirate and find the pirate bases, where you could buy them. That was a grindy game.

Original Elite - buy computers or luxuries at industrial world, take them to agricultural world. Buy liquor or radioactives or furs at ag world and take them to an industrial world. Fight a few pirates in the middle. Amazing as it was for the time, it was grindy. Once you got all the upgrades, there wasn't much left to do but cover your fuel costs as you traversed the galaxy. At least you could choose how to do that but it still involved a lot of fly somewhere and shoot stuff.

Point is, most sandbox games revolve around just a few things you can do - usually shoot something and/or blow something up - while ED offers *actual* choices of different career paths, which you can switch (almost) anytime you like. You can avoid combat completely, if you so desire -- it's hard to get in combat when you're on the othe side of the galaxy from inhabited space -- and there's plenty of "in between" space to play with. If you WANT to have the toughest ship and be the grizzlist Bounty Hunter since Dog, yeah, you might have to "grind out" some ranks, some credits and the engineer stuff. Or, you can fly around doing a bit of everything and take all that other stuff at a much slower pace. Best thing I've found yet is that you can influence the BG in any role you decide to play! You don't have to be an Elite combat pilot killing all the "bad guys" for your chosen faction to advance.

TL;dr - FDev are doing a great job with this space life simulation and I'm sure there's plenty more good stuff to come

Fly strong

Maniac o7